Opinions on why we passed on Rosen?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

1) Totally agree

2) Tyrod's poor performance the previous two games warranted that desperate move

3) Totally agree

4) He may not be the #2 and is not a bad RB

5) Work in progress.  Better QB makes the WRs look better.

 

Help me out here - did we change WR coach in the off season or we still got the same guy?  I seem to remember a change, but having memory issues

 

On the WR, I don't think you can get away from the finding that our WR had the poorest, or among the poorest, separation from DB in the league this year.

It's hard for a better QB to make the WR look better if they can't achieve separation.  We downgraded on WR, and we haven't done much work to change that (yet).

 

On point 2, we have to agree to disagree. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I thought that comment was a bit strange.  Rosen is going to show the previous 9 teams that didn't draft him that they screwed up by defeating them on the field on a consistent basis?  First of all, Josh, there were only 8 teams picking before the Cardinals as Cleveland drafted twice.  Second, apparently, the Giants, Broncos, Colts, Bears, and 49ers didn't want or need a QB so that just leaves 3 teams that you can seek your revenge on.  And since they are all AFC teams and you are on an NFC team, you only get to play them once every four years.  In summation, you may be concussed out of the league by the Rams D-line before you even get to play the Bills, Browns, or Jets.  What an insufferable, self-absorbed, d-bag he is.

 

Rosen may view it as, a team could (in theory) have traded to #4, so 9 teams.  I cut him some slack there.  I think he felt he had excellent visits at 2 teams which passed him up (Jets and Bills) and was (understandably) a bit shaken.

 

No one has ever said great athletes all have sterling personalities.  Quite a few, by all accounts, are self-absorbed douchebags.  (of course, the converse isn't necessarily true)

 

Anyway, I find it curious that when Mayfield makes ultra-competitive, maybe arrogant statements (he's the guy to turn the Browns around etc) he's fiery and shows passion for the game and carries a motivational chip on his shoulder.  When Rosen does similar, he's douchy and self absorbed.  It seems like a double standard, and somewhat irrelevant too.

 

It is quite possible that Rosen is douchy, self-absorbed, and will make an excellent NFL QB.  But, he won't do it here so my interest is abstract.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, ganesh said:

Does this mean that Rosen will need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL?

 

Most QB need a stud OL to be successful in the NFL.  Anyone who thinks Keenum, Foles, or Prescott look like they did behind our OL is dreamin'

[Ittakestime]

Buffalo wasn't the only QB needy team to pass on Rosen.

 

Let's be honest here, people love to crap on Allen's completion %, but Rosen's wasn't that much better.

[Mark92]

Any college QB who has already had concussion issues is an instant red flag.  Yes the kid is talented but if he misses half the season and has his career cut short what's the point?  

[C.Biscuit97]

Cause our offensive player evaluation is awful and our owner feel in love.

Edited April 29, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

I mean look...

You want you Head Coach And Starting Quarterback to be on the same page.

 

Rosen and McDermott wouldn’t even be able to agree on God’s specific influence in the outcome of the game.

 

McDermott would give all the credit to God.

Rosen would give all the credit to himself and teammates and coaches.

 

and imagine when McDermott dropped to his knees after the Dalton Touchdown!

 

Rosen would probably say, “lose a contact coach?  What you doing down there?”

Edited April 29, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

Any college QB who has already had concussion issues is an instant red flag.  Yes the kid is talented but if he misses half the season and has his career cut short what's the point?  

 

So the Browns should have red-flagged Mayfield (two concussions in 3 games in 2016)?

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

9 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

You're free to be a Cardinals fan if you like Rosen that much and dislike our front office just as equally.

 

I'm not a Cardinals fan, I'm a Bills fan.

 

I'm not a Pegula, Beane or McDermott fan, I'm a Bills fans, was a Bills fan long before any of them showed up.

 

Of course we have to wait to see how it turns out, but as of now, I'm saying the picked the wrong QB, epic fail.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

I mean look...

You want you Head Coach And Starting Quarterback to be on the same page.

 

Rosen and McDermott wouldn’t even be able to agree on God’s specific influence in the outcome of the game.

 

McDermott would give all the credit to God.

Rosen would give all the credit to himself and teammates and coaches.

 

and imagine when McDermott dropped to his knees after the Dalton Touchdown!

 

Rosen would probably say, “lose a contact coach?  What you doing down there?”

 

I would hope Beane (and McDermott) are not using religious beliefs as a screening factor for evaluating player talent.

 

IMO it's stump simple from looking at the rest of the draft.  Beane puts a strong weight on high physical attributes vs player development, and expects our coaches to be able to develop the guys football chops and get a better player in the end.  It's not clear to me that's the same way McDermott weights, but as long as he's willing to roll with it we're fine.

[stinky finger]

On 4/27/2018 at 3:17 PM, PastaJoe said:

Pegulas, like many of the owners as evidenced by the audio of their meeting, are afraid of players who will publicly take a stand for positive social justice by taking a knee or speaking out. Fortunately there are a couple, who like the NBA, are not afraid of a crazy tweet or misunderstanding fans and don’t let it cloud their judgement on who’s the best on-field talent.

 

Could be - or - more likely, they thought Allen is a better prospect.

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would hope Beane (and McDermott) are not using religious beliefs as a screening factor for evaluating player talent.

 

IMO it's stump simple from looking at the rest of the draft.  Beane puts a strong weight on high physical attributes vs player development, and expects our coaches to be able to develop the guys football chops and get a better player in the end.  It's not clear to me that's the same way McDermott weights, but as long as he's willing to roll with it we're fine.

I’m mostly kidding.

although I wouldn’t rule out that they have to feel a personality connection.  You have to want to go to work with these players everyday.  Not saying it was a religious decision entirely though.

 

But fun fact

one of McDermott’s first decisions as Head Coach was to fire the Team Chaplain last season.

[WideRightRevenge]

Rosen ... with the Cardinals OL ... 52 sacks allowed in 2017 ... facing Denver as well (hello Mr. Chubb) ... the kid is toast ... that said .. glad the Cardinals jumped the fish and picked him.   Granted he was looking at bigger picture .. but this kid sat out his last Bowl Game vs. taking the field with teammates .. not the leader I want in WNY .. good riddance.

[Mojo44]

Rosen’s “personality” issues were non-issues as far as the bills are concerned. That had nothing to do with their choice. Think about it, if they felt that he was the best quarterback available to lead them to a Super Bowl they’re going to take him regardless of the “personality” issues.

 

The whole choice was based, simply, and who is positives and potentials they like the best. Rosen is a terrific prospect and may end up being great. The same is true for Allen. They just liked Allen’s positives better. That’s it!

[george c]

I think Terry Pegula understands that if a kid is super rich, he may retire early instead of taking repeated blows to the noggin. 

Rosen is thin, and probably wouldn’t survive the NFL, and I am sure his mother will always whisper in his ear “honey, you don’t need this”...

[17 Josh Allen]

He got passed over because Allen is the better QB and was the best QB in this draft bar none. Rosen is going to find that he is not going to get his way in the NFL. He needs an attitude adjustment. Also he already failed his first test when he had a epic melt down on being the 4th QB drafted. How did Allen do on his first test. He stood up and took responsibility for his texts. He said it was on him and he showed remorse. Also Allen did not go to a private upscale high school football program and play at the posh UCLA. Allen did not get everything handed to him, he had to earn it the hard way. No he played 8 man football in High School. He wrote 1000 colleges and got turned down. Basically his own home town college Fresno State turned him down twice. Then 1 year of Jr college football with crappy coaching.Then got lucky ? and finally got a break. Went to Wyoming and got some coaching.

 

His statistics were as good as Carson Wentz but Allen did it in 15 less games then Wentz. All the while getting them to 2 bowl games. Wyoming hardly ever gets into Bowl games. His senior year he was running for his life behind a poor offensive line and still almost completed 60 percent. Then proceeds to hire and work with Jordon Palmer and he helps him correct his flaws with his foot work. He then proceeds to have a great bowl game and senior bowl where he completes almost 70 percent of his passes and 2TD’s and is the player of the game. I would say this is the sort of player I want on the Buffalo Bills, a guy who is willing to take responsibility for his actions. A guy who is humble and is about being part of the team concept. His arm talent is Rogers, Elway and Farve like. He is mobile and can move and throw on the run like Rogers. He is also smart he scored the best on the Wonderlic test 37. He is coachable and willing to listen. Plus Beane told you what he was looking for in a QB he said it out loud and signaled that to everyone in the media what he would be trying to do. He also said he would trade up to do it. NYG never were going to trade out of the 2 spot. Cleveland like wise at 4. 

 

 

So Beane makes a deal with Denver to get Allen which would cost him both number ones. That the deal falls through because chubb falls to Denver. So Bills keep trying and hit pay dirt at 7 with Tampa. This is really where it gets interesting. Most thought it would be Rosen but if you had been listening to Beane through the whole process there was never a chance he would take Rosen over Allen because Allen fit the Can Newton profile he is on board with. Beane told us what his QB model and what he would do when it came time to draft. Do you know how I know Beane got this right. Marv Levy once said when you start listening to the fans on personal decisions and team strategy you basically become in effective and need to go or it will get you fired. He said you go with your convictions and you stay strong. Also Bill Polian also said these things when criticized by the media.

 

 

I seem to recall those 2 guys Levi and Polian were here under the most amazing run in team history. Basically winning more games in the 1990’s then any team in Football. I think I will side with GM Beane and coach Mcdermott. After 17 years they did something no coach or GM was able to do. Get us into the playoffs. They got rid of players that did not fit their program even while they were being criticized in the media and by fans. People were up in arms as one player after another was shown the door. Boy who does this sound like. Sounds like Marv Levy and Bill Polian to me. I think we’re in good hands people. Success is right around the corner and lots of winning will take place. I’m hoping you Rosen fans can get over your disappointment and come along for the ride. There is still room on the Allen train ? hop aboard before it leaves the station. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[starrymessenger]

43 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

Rosen’s “personality” issues were non-issues as far as the bills are concerned. That had nothing to do with their choice. Think about it, if they felt that he was the best quarterback available to lead them to a Super Bowl they’re going to take him regardless of the “personality” issues.

 

The whole choice was based, simply, and who is positives and potentials they like the best. Rosen is a terrific prospect and may end up being great. The same is true for Allen. They just liked Allen’s positives better. That’s it!

 

This is what I also want to believe and I think it's probably the case. Having said that I do acknowledge the possibility that some NFL coaches and assistants are old school if not downright reactionary and could feel threatened by a guy with Rosen's personality. JMO but while a player's character is an important box to check when making a decision, I doubt that too much emphasis should be placed on a player's personality as such. Stereotypes are generalizations and therefore are to be taken with a grain of salt when evaluating an individual, but they can be valid for what they are - generalizations. I mean would anyone be shocked and surprised to discover that a WR was a "diva" and a "flake"? Or that a QB was a conceited, arrogant prick? Many of the best players in both position groups are exactly that. An organization that can deal with that is a lot further ahead than one that cannot. 

I wanted Rosen but unlike many of his detractors I always saw Allen as a legitimate first round talent with a very high ceiling. Too me there is a lot to like there. So I can't be too upset with Beane taking a bona fide first round QB prospect in the first round. 

The one thing I know for sure is that going forward Allen, Rosen and Beane are now all joined at the hip. Beane has made his decision but a close eye will be kept on how these players perform in judging Beane. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Andy1]

You got it right Thurminator - except he was at Jr. college only 1 year. I think Bills brass didn't think that Rosens personality and desires were a match for Buffalo. In addition to their concerns of his long-term durability. He is probably a great passer when the pocket is safe, but when it breaks down around him he's done. 

 

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics. I think he can be really special., He reminds me of a young, less refined John Elway. We all need patience with Bills coaches and not rush the kid onto the field too soon. Let him develop properly. We can go 0-16 this year, just don't crew up the development of Allen. 

[swnybillsfan]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:38 PM, PIZ said:

They didn't pass on Rosen.  They liked Allen better.

i think this is it. Allen has the advantage in all the measurable categories, and i think they love his attitude. he also seems intelligent. coming from a farm family and knowing all about hard work is probably also a positive. he seems very aware of the areas he needs to improve in, and i would bet that in the meetings with the team, he seemed very genuine, coachable, smart, and ready to get after it. he has the qualities you can't teach,  and i bet the staff believes they can correct the weaknesses.

[17 Josh Allen]

12 minutes ago, Andy1 said:

You got it right Thurminator - except he was at Jr. college only 1 year. I think Bills brass didn't think that Rosens personality and desires were a match for Buffalo. In addition to their concerns of his long-term durability. He is probably a great passer when the pocket is safe, but when it breaks down around him he's done. 

 

What I've noticed is that former NFL players - Phil Simms, Trent Dilfer, Chris Carter seem to love Allen. Stats geeks who haven't played the game are his critics. I think he can be really special., He reminds me of a young, less refined John Elway. We all need patience with Bills coaches and not rush the kid onto the field too soon. Let him develop properly. We can go 0-16 this year, just don't crew up the development of Allen. 

you are spot on with this. loved this post, my onw eyes do not lie to me. I’m not looking at stats when I watch these 2 guys play. I look at what is going on In front of them and what they have to deal with. Allen is a special talent with the arm talent that may be the best ever coming out of college. Rosen is also good but has limitations 

moving around or out side the pocket. Allen has no limits. Roll him out left or right. Do RPO plays. Play from the pocket. Larger stronger body and most importantly a team first player. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074