Did the Bills REALLY get their guy?

[Buddo]

I think you can make a genuine case that they actually drafted the guy who was top of their list.

 

It's generally being accepted that Allen has far and away the most potential of any of the 'top 4' QBs. You then have to look at that information in relation to how the current Bills Brass, see their 'franchise QB'.

 

They have said, often, that they like size. That's a knock on Mayfield, that I see compounded by first hand viewing of another short QB in Taylor.  I also think that sets him at the bottom of that 'top 4'.

 

There have been some interesting tidbits in the pressers the last couple of days also. The one that had me paying attention particularly, was one where they talked about Allen having played in conditions very similar to what we get in Buffalo, and his arm strength and big hand size were mentioned. That, to me, was a sign that Darnold may well have not been top of their list, as assumed by many. He (Darnold) doesn't have 'big' hands, and I believe that if you want to knock him, his ball security could be a big red flag - especially to a D minded HC who hates losing turnover battles.

 

I think it was the same presser, where Beane almost went out of his way to be nice about Rosen, and if some late chatter about the Bills doubling down on their study of him is to be believed, he may well have been their fall back option, if they found out anything about the Allen tweets that they really couldn't live with.

 

Now, while it wouldn't be my ranking, I can easily believe that the Bills could well have had the 'top 4' QBs ranked as Allen, Rosen, Darnold, then Mayfield.

 

I think the combination of the attributes that they like, and the attributes they see as being 'desireable' to play in WNY, can get you to the above 'ranking' without too much trouble, especially as apparently Allen has terrific retention of information, and the highest wonderlic of the bunch.

[ehfeuh57]

They met with Mayfield alot because he was projected to go further down where they could get him for a long time.

 

Noone even talked about him going 1 until the last 24 hours, do you have a memory?

[RocCityRoller]

I've seen multiple sources indicate that the Bills had a trade in line with Denver at 5. The trade would have included #22 and a second round pick.

 

Bean has said whether they played in a dome or not they would want Allen.

 

When Cleveland passed on Chubb it meant Denver would not move, even with a sweetened deal of both 2'nds. They wanted to grab Chubb and pair him with Von Miller, who can blame them?

 

Because Cleveland took S Denzel Ward, Bradley Chubb was available.

 

It was well noted Indy did not want to move out of the top 10. Neither Arizona or Buffalo, or even New England could offer that.

 

Both Arizona and Buffalo raced to get the pick with Tampa. Buffalo had more capital than Arizona did. Buffalo got the trade.

 

They took Allen over Rosen. They had the choice.

 

And they were able to get Edmunds, one of the top 3 LBs available, by keeping the second 1st round pick.

 

Allen's comparables are closest to Brett Favre for upside. Yes Buffalo got who they wanted, and got Edmunds in as a bonus because of Cleveland being Cleveland.

 

This first round may go on to be legendary. Allen will take 2-3 years to develop, so will Edmunds. 3 years from now we could have baby Favre and a game changing MLB entering his 2nd year from the same round. We have to give this the long view. The 5-11's to 8-8 years will allow this team to continue to build.

 

Count me in for the long haul. I like our chances a few years from now.

Edited April 29, 2018 by RocCityRoller

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Why is it impossible, and I'm not saying he is, I disagree with him on this. However, why is it impossible that a fan could be smarter than the people who run these franchises?

 

They're essentially glorified gym teachers for the most part.

 

Yes but first of fa gym teacher teaches gym all the time, likely goes to cynics, training, etc.  so again they know more about teaching gym than a fan would.  And if a fan knew so much they'd be doing it professionally, or at a minimum working for ESPN or some other media outlet where again they'd have access to many resources the average fan doesn't get to experience.   Even Mel Kyper, love him or hate him has way more access to things that are really going on than 99% of the posters here do. The 1% are the people that write columns who do post here, but they rarely state things as facts when all it really is an opinion.

 

It's fine to say hey I don't like the pick or I think they panicked, but when presented as facts when nothing is really known shows ignorance.

 

Whatever the occupation may be, when people who don't do that task full time think they know more than people who do this for a living it just  again shows their ignorance. 

[napmaster]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 2:32 PM, psuscott16 said:

What other teams picks a QB besides Arizona is this scenario?

 

Miami, NO, Baltimore, San Diego, NE, Pittsburg to name a few.

 

Once you get to pick 9 or 10, all teams are in play to trade up.  KC went from 27 to 10 last year.  The Bills were best positioned with draft capital to move in the 4 - 8 range, which they did.  That's where the urgency was, not that they were stunned Mayfield and Darnold were off the board.

[stuvian]

Listening to Beane's interview on NFLN after the Allen pick he stated plainly that Allen was one of the QBs they would gladly have selected but not the only one. He said they tried deals with NYG and Cleveland and the price was higher than what they were willing to pay, namely any of their 2019 picks. They confronted Allen about the tweets and were satisfied with his response. They researched this pick thoroughly and got their preference of Allen over Rosen. I was impressed by the fact that he had set a floor and a ceiling on what he was willing to pay to move up. I am glad we didn't include any 2019 picks to get Allen.

 

So yes they got their guy but he wasn't necessarily the only guy.

[Dr. Fong]

Panic would have looked like the Bills giving up a king's ransom to Cleveland or the Giants after the Jets traded up to 3.

[blacklabel]

Not for nothing but of the big four QBs that came up this year, Josh Rosen was the last one taken. So it's obviously not just the Bills that viewed Rosen behind Allen, Darnold and Mayfield. 

 

I really think a lot of teams feel like Rosen's durability is going to be an issue. 

[bigduke6]

stopped reading after the 1st page,  the vitrol towrads the OP was not worth the time.  

 

none of u knows whether they got "their" guy or not.  none.

 

u can speculate, u can wish, u can hope,  with no facts, other than what has been said by OBD,  which any prudent person knows means next to nothing.   of course he's their guy,  regardless of whether or not he actually was.

 

just support the kid,  give him time, put away the anger, mistrust, and let it be.    fastest way to help him fail is push too hard and be negative.   support him till he doesnt deserve it.

 

if youre a true fan,  a good human being,  thats what you need to do.  or dont,  ruin it for yourself,  nobody cares.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:22 PM, Scorp83 said:

Did the Bills REALLY get their guy? Or did they panic? 

 

I believed they panic! I believe they're guy was Darnold...then given the fact that they met with Mayfield about 4 times... i feel like they panic once Mayfield went 1st overall. The Giants probably told them no...Our guy is there, then the Jets...who really screwed us since the trade...take Darnold! Now people want to praise Beane for patients...Please! He was trying to trade with the Browns, The Broncos & the Colts...problem was...all those teams couldn't pass on the players that fell to them.

 

It's obvious that they had Allen over Rosen (Which is concerning imo) & it's just NO WAY they can tell me Allen is a better prospect then Rosen. How far apart were Allen & Rosen? I felt like they could hve sat there at 12 once "Their Guy" went off the board. When you watch Allen play...its just no way they can say... "He was our guy"

They panic... just like the other regime did with JP Losman. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

Unless we had Mayfield pegged then we had our choice of pretty much all the QB's, if Buffalo was giddy about Darnold, we could have traded the mother load to NYG, we chose Allen over Rosen/Rudolph/Jackson so I'm pretty sure they felt they got the guy they wanted all along. It just looks like fans like yourself liked a certain QB, they didn't pick him and you're bummed about it. I feel like Allen was probably the guy from the start to finish and now we know what this regime sees as a franchise QB, if they're going to swing for the fences then the QB is going to be mobile with a big arm and high ceiling.

[Scorp83]

28 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

 

Unless we had Mayfield pegged then we had our choice of pretty much all the QB's, if Buffalo was giddy about Darnold, we could have traded the mother load to NYG, we chose Allen over Rosen/Rudolph/Jackson so I'm pretty sure they felt they got the guy they wanted all along. It just looks like fans like yourself liked a certain QB, they didn't pick him and you're bummed about it. I feel like Allen was probably the guy from the start to finish and now we know what this regime sees as a franchise QB, if they're going to swing for the fences then the QB is going to be mobile with a big arm and high ceiling.

Again...its clearly stated the Giants, Browns, Broncos, & Colts were not TRADING because they're players all fell to them... it didn't matter what the Bills wanted to offer. Beane is also on record saying he was trying to give away the 2nd 1st rd pick ... but nobody wanted to Trade. You need a partner when trading... teams just don't trade because you come calling, it's not how this thing works

 

 

That last comment sounds like Whaley plan when he drafted EJ... & EJ had a better college career ???

 

Sounds like JP too... Big arm kid that can throw it a mile, athletic with a high ceiling. Ok maybe the 3rd time is a charm

56 minutes ago, stuvian said:

Listening to Beane's interview on NFLN after the Allen pick he stated plainly that Allen was one of the QBs they would gladly have selected but not the only one. He said they tried deals with NYG and Cleveland and the price was higher than what they were willing to pay, namely any of their 2019 picks. They confronted Allen about the tweets and were satisfied with his response. They researched this pick thoroughly and got their preference of Allen over Rosen. I was impressed by the fact that he had set a floor and a ceiling on what he was willing to pay to move up. I am glad we didn't include any 2019 picks to get Allen.

 

So yes they got their guy but he wasn't necessarily the only guy.

This is probably the best post to go against my question. All facts & I love your opinion, it shows you've been paying attention. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Scorp83

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

6 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

Again...its clearly stated the Giants, Browns, Broncos, & Colts were not TRADING because they're players all fell to them... it didn't matter what the Bills wanted to offer. Beane is also on record saying he was trying to give away the 2nd 1st rd pick ... but nobody wanted to Trade. You need a partner when trading... teams just don't trade because you come calling, it's not how this thing works

 

 

That last comment sounds like Whaley plan when he drafted EJ... & EJ had a better college career ???

 

Sounds like JP too... Big arm kid that can throw it a mile, athletic with a high ceiling. Ok maybe the 3rd time is a charm

 

I mean you can say all the big armed mobile QB's sound like JP Losman or EJ Manuel, there is no telling until he gets on the field. You can also say the guy can wow you and make you completely frustrated in the same breath, who am I? Brett Favre. I'm not a homer or koolaid drinker like some fans will say, I've watched Allen the past 2 seasons and I see alot of Brett favre in him where on 1 play you'll say what were you thinking man and then the next you're like my goodness what a pass right in the bread basket, I think he's going to be a stud QB in the league, it's just my opinion and I know many who disagree and I'm cool with it.

[Mark92]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:47 PM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

Beane was outmaneuvered by the Jets, then compounded the error by overpaying to move up to 7, THEN, picked the wrong QB.  But if you listen to Beane, I'm sure he'll say Allen was the guy all along...  I believe him when he says that, which is bad news for the future of the franchise.

Adam Schefter stated that it was well known for a long time that buffalo was in love with Allen.  He was almost positive that Allen topped their board.   I only wonder why we didn't hear that.  Some experts thought it was a good match but we never got the news that the Bills loved him. Also.... We traded to 2nds to move from 12 to 7.  The deal with Denver was going to be 12,22 and a second rounder.  The Jets gave up 3 2nd rounders for only 3 spots.  I think we paid what the market was and did a good job keeping 22 and not tossing im any picks for next year.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Mark92

[Putin]

On 4/27/2018 at 1:22 PM, Scorp83 said:

Did the Bills REALLY get their guy? Or did they panic? 

 

I believed they panic! I believe they're guy was Darnold...then given the fact that they met with Mayfield about 4 times... i feel like they panic once Mayfield went 1st overall. The Giants probably told them no...Our guy is there, then the Jets...who really screwed us since the trade...take Darnold! Now people want to praise Beane for patients...Please! He was trying to trade with the Browns, The Broncos & the Colts...problem was...all those teams couldn't pass on the players that fell to them.

 

It's obvious that they had Allen over Rosen (Which is concerning imo) & it's just NO WAY they can tell me Allen is a better prospect then Rosen. How far apart were Allen & Rosen? I felt like they could hve sat there at 12 once "Their Guy" went off the board. When you watch Allen play...its just no way they can say... "He was our guy"

They panic... just like the other regime did with JP Losman. 

 

Thoughts? 

Thoughts?? 

Nice story bro !!

13 minutes ago, Mark92 said:

Adam Schefter stated that it was well known for a long time that buffalo was in love with Allen.  He was almost positive that Allen topped their board.   I only wonder why we didn't hear that.  Some experts thought it was a good match but we never got the news that the Bills loved him. Also.... We traded to 2nds to move from 12 to 7.  The deal with Denver was going to be 12,22 and a second rounder.  The Jets gave up 3 2nd rounders for only 3 spots.  I think we paid what the market was and did a good job keeping 22 and not tossing im any picks for next year.

All the diehard Rosen fans would disagree!

[FappyTheClown]

Peter King says he believes Buffalo would have taken Allen even if they had the number 1 pick. 

 

Of course that's not fact but he's someone in the know. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by FappyTheClown

[Scorp83]

On 4/27/2018 at 2:47 PM, Rosen-not-Chosen said:

 

Beane was outmaneuvered by the Jets, then compounded the error by overpaying to move up to 7, THEN, picked the wrong QB.  But if you listen to Beane, I'm sure he'll say Allen was the guy all along...  I believe him when he says that, which is bad news for the future of the franchise.

Man... this is such a real post... this board won't like it. Most of them haven't seen Allen play & the other half the did...are blind. Look I get it...Allen is a Bill & we have no choice but to pray this kid doesn't throw up all over himself. But it takes a true fan to criticize their team when they made a huge mistake & most of you won't understand the BOLD I've highlighted. But it's true... and is very....VERY concerning going forward that Beane believe this was their guy all along. 

 

I'm already looking for QB's next year & maybe a new coach...cause McDermott game management is all ready a bad sign for things to come too. But that's a thread for another day. 

 

Great Post Rosen not Chosen

[Carter]

History will prove once again that Rosen should have been the pick!!!!

 

 

God Damn Bills!! Always !@#$ing **** up. 

[gobills1212]

5 hours ago, Mark92 said:

Adam Schefter stated that it was well known for a long time that buffalo was in love with Allen.  He was almost positive that Allen topped their board.   I only wonder why we didn't hear that.  Some experts thought it was a good match but we never got the news that the Bills loved him. Also.... We traded to 2nds to move from 12 to 7.  The deal with Denver was going to be 12,22 and a second rounder.  The Jets gave up 3 2nd rounders for only 3 spots.  I think we paid what the market was and did a good job keeping 22 and not tossing im any picks for next year.

Yes we did... the same source that said Bills loved Peterman said Bills loved Allen. However, it was being gushed and almost pushed so much so it was maybe thought to be smoke. That said, they were right all along

[Scorp83]

10 minutes ago, Carter said:

History will prove once again that Rosen should have been the pick!!!!

 

 

God Damn Bills!! Always !@#$ing **** up. 

YES! 

[gobills1212]

13 minutes ago, Carter said:

History will prove once again that Rosen should have been the pick!!!!

 

 

God Damn Bills!! Always !@#$ing **** up. 

Glad I dont have to watch games with you!

Must be a ton o'fun! Like bag full of wet cats fun!

 

 

I was PISSED when that pick went down. I yelled, I threw something, my wife was laughing, my dogs were scared and I spent the next couple hours in disbelief.

The next day (I work with sports merchandise and athletes so it's all sports all the time) it was like someone died... or we lost the superbowl.

I went back and dug deep again and watched all the Allen videos over again this time with the view he was ours. After a while it became less Rosen vs Allen, and more... this is what it is so let's do this!! There are a ton of positives, it's just POV. I REALLY liked Mahomes last year and was sad the Bills passed. Well, Allen is a better prospect.... so that POV helped. Also, I realized the the other guys went 1,2,3 and we traded w/cle to 4 for Allen then I'd be happier. 

Everyone has something different they need to figure out. I sincerely hope the unhappy people do. It is what it is. Have fun and look forward to it. Better than being bitter and hoping the next 4 yrs are a waste so you can do it again. No reason to be mad once it gets accepted. What's done is done. Deal with it and move on!!

Edited April 30, 2018 by gobills1212