JohnC Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: So I think it did delay the decision. I think the quicker way to the decision was let him play out. Instead we wasted a 3rd of the following preseason on it. Look I understand why Marrone made the move. I have been a head coach in a different sport I understand the pressure to make changes when you are losing and the Houston game was absolutely benchable. But what did the organisation actually gain from 12 games of a semi retired Kyle Orton? I would argue nothing. I don't want to belabor the point but the source of the problem due to the ridiculous situation that Marrone inherited was the GM. It was like he emptied his pockets to place a bet on a lame horse. He took his family's bread and rent money and put it on a limping nag. Getting the retired Kyle Orton was an act of desperation. We were in a state of desperation because we didn't even have a mediocre backup to stem the tide from an impending and predictably calamity. You can mock the resorting to a virtually retired qb who gladly pocketed his last glorious paycheck but he was a better option than EJ. How stupendously stupid was it to allow yourself to be in that situation? It was hideous malfeasance/nonfeasance. That was the situation that Whaley put Marrone and the franchise in. Marrone responded by essentially telling Whaley that he wasn't going to supinely be his fall guy. Marrone may have been unprofessional and combative towards Whaley but from a issue standpoint he was right. People can get blinded by all the beautiful verbosity about process and organizational structure etc. Those issues are important to an extent. But the bottom line is talent. In a talent based industry if you don't have it you can't fake it. When you have a franchise that hasn't had a franchise qb in nearly a quarter century and you have a GM who doesn't exhibit any urgency to address the most important issue to the point that it becomes a neurosis then don't point the blame at the person who is left holding the bag. If you want to distribute blame place it at the doorstep of the person who gave the proverbial bag to him.
TheElectricCompany Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Baker at #1 was worst case scenario. Good job Browns. I just can't get excited about a guy who wasn't a great football player at Wyoming. Ugh. Good luck Allen, I hope you prove many wrong!
DrDawkinstein Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: The blurb for Josh Allen yesterday was, "Not accurate and lacks anticipation..." Literally the two most important traits for a QB. Those are not flaws. Those are gigantic hazards. And I can't just fake being happy and throwing the pom poms out now that we've taken the guy. Especially 12 hours later. Hope he makes me look like an idiot but I have history telling me he'll flame out. Oh a "blurb" said that? Cool. I guess we should all find a new team to follow? Or should I call my ticket rep and yell at him? Im not super happy about it either, but I respect we had our choice and got the guy they wanted. We'll see from here.
BillsFan4 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: So him being 14/15 is ok for him to be a racist in his tweets. F that. The interview by Beane and McD sickened me about it. I'm not going to even get into this too much but that **** better never surface as a leader of "the process." Not only do we have to hope that he gets the football stuff corrected, but we have to have that in the back of our mind. Great!! I'm trying to be balanced and allow him room to be and do whatever he's going to do, but there is a part of me that just feels straight up terrible about the pick. I am one of the least racist people out there. I do not tolerate it at all. Was Allen really being racist, or just dumb? From what I've seen, I didn't think he was actually calling people the N word in a racist way (with er on the end). He was using the n word with a on the end, like some dumb kids do from time to time. I thought he was just quoting lyrics in one, and trying to be cute/funny in the other (which obviously it is not at all). Ive heard plenty of white kids say "my n****a" or some such phrase over the years and not mean it in a racist way. It still doesn't mean it's not a dumb thing to say, or that I condone it. But I do feel that there is a big difference between using it like that and straight up calling someone a N word. If Eddie Yarbrough and all of his teammates are saying that this kid is not at all racist I will believe hem for now. If proven otherwise, I will obviously re-evaluate my thinking. Anyway, just my opinion and I am not trying to make excuses for the use of that word. Just giving my take on how I took it.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) For me it was Rosen and Mayfield as my top guys. Passing on Rosen was a gut punch. That said, if Allen does come close to or reaches his ceiling, he is going to be on the top tier of QB's in the league and we will be consistently in the playoffs and competing for Super Bowls for the next 10-15 years. Edited April 27, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12
Roundybout Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 7 hours ago, #34fan said: That's why they call them "busts"... Because they never live up to the hype. How exactly are you calling him a bust when he hasn't touched the field yet
DrDawkinstein Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said: How exactly are you calling him a bust when he hasn't touched the field yet And how much hype can he have when all the fans hate him?
FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Oh a "blurb" said that? Cool. I guess we should all find a new team to follow? Or should I call my ticket rep and yell at him? Im not super happy about it either, but I respect we had our choice and got the guy they wanted. We'll see from here. If blurbs aren't your thing you could watch any of his games last year and see for yourself his flaws. Again he's a Bills player now and I pray that he makes all of us moaning right now look like idiots. I would gladly parade the fact that I was wrong but when you're not impressive in the Mountain West Conference odds are you're going to struggle in the NFL.
Roundybout Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: And how much hype can he have when all the fans hate him? In this case, 34 thinks Edmunds is going to bust even though he is projected to be a monster. And maybe it is for the best that Allen isn't hyped. We won't be disappointed...
LabattBlue Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 My pre-draft rankings of QB's was as follows... Mayfield Darnold . . Allen Rosen . . . . Rudolph Jackson The only way the Bills had any shot at Mayfield or Darnold was if the Browns took Allen #1, and one of Mayfield or Darnold slipped to the 4 slot or later. Rosen's concussions scare the heck out of me. I can only hope the Bills have a great QB coach who can turn Allen into an above average NFL QB. If Allen works out, Beane looks like a genius. If Allen busts, Beane probably gets fired. What I don't understand is the people who act like this is the worst pick of all-time. It's not as if the Bills used the #7 overall pick on a guy who should have been taken in the 3rd or 4th round.
GunnerBill Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: I don't want to belabor the point but the source of the problem due to the ridiculous situation that Marrone inherited was the GM. It was like he emptied his pockets to place a bet on a lame horse. He took his family's bread and rent money and put it on a limping nag. Getting the retired Kyle Orton was an act of desperation. We were in a state of desperation because we didn't even have a mediocre backup to stem the tide from an impending and predictably calamity. You can mock the resorting to a virtually retired qb who gladly pocketed his last glorious paycheck but he was a better option than EJ. How stupendously stupid was it to allow yourself to be in that situation? It was hideous malfeasance/nonfeasance. That was the situation that Whaley put Marrone and the franchise in. Marrone responded by essentially telling Whaley that he wasn't going to supinely be his fall guy. Marrone may have been unprofessional and combative towards Whaley but from a issue standpoint he was right. People can get blinded by all the beautiful verbosity about process and organizational structure etc. Those issues are important to an extent. But the bottom line is talent. In a talent based industry if you don't have it you can't fake it. When you have a franchise that hasn't had a franchise qb in nearly a quarter century and you have a GM who doesn't exhibit any urgency to address the most important issue to the point that it becomes a neurosis then don't point the blame at the person who is left holding the bag. If you want to distribute blame place it at the doorstep of the person who gave the proverbial bag to him. I haven't blamed Marrone once. I have said repeatedly I understand why he did it. I totally understand that. I have been the coach standing on the sideline thinking "this guy is going to get me fired." Nor have I at any point absolved Whaley from blame they screwed the pooch on the position consistently under him and Nix. I still think from a process perspective it was the wrong decision and it was yet another result of the totally befuddled organisational structure the Bills had at that time. The one thing I am confident in is that we have an organisational structure now that will have the confidence in their convictions to make sure that the process on Allen is right. Though I doubt that means he sits all year. McCarron will not be able to move this offense with these weapons and the cries for Allen will start as early as week 3 or 4. I predict he is in by week 9.
BillsFan4 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, May Day 10 said: When it looked like the Bills were getting Rosen... while I admit I wanted him, I was picturing him with this community and fan base. I dont think his personality would mix here and it would get ugly. I think Arizona was the perfect landing spot for him I agree that Rosen could have potentially been a questionable fit here. But do you really think he will be a fit in Arizona? That is one of the most heavily conservative republican states in the US, and even more so Phoenix. Trump won there by like 20 points or something crazy like that. Im not sure how well his "F Trump", very liberal views will go over there.
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, PaattMaann said: I really wanted Goodell to say Josh Rosen, instead he said Allen....I was very disapointed. I just dont see it. Watched him talk football with Kirk Cousins on some pre-draft thing, a three part series, each video about 5 minutes. Doesn't change my overall disappointment with the hail mary pick, but at least Allen comes from a pro style offense with pro style terminology and reads. That does not mean he is ready for the NFL, and will really need at least a full year to sit and learn and prepare. I hope we give him that time. While I don't like the pick over Rosen, or the fact that it feels like we got fleeced for both second rounders for just 5 spots (given what little AZ had to give up to go up 5 spots), but I am glad our FO had the conviction to identify their guy and then go up and get him. Now I will root with everything I have for the kid, and hope he can correct all of his many faults at the QB position and develop into what we have been missing since Kelly. There is my rational take on a disappointing pick. (LOVE the Edmunds pick!) I'm trying to come around to looking at it like this. I'm still thinking we just picked Todd Blacklege over Dan Marino, though. Grrrrrr
May Day 10 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: I agree that Rosen could have potentially been a questionable fit here. But do you really think he will be a fit in Arizona? That is one of the most heavily conservative republican states in the US, and even more so Phoenix. Trump won there by like 20 points or something crazy like that. Im not sure how well his "F Trump", very liberal views will go over there. I don't think people really get that passionate about pro football there to make it as much as a poop-storm. I think he would actually get more crap if he pulled the anti-Trump bit in Buffalo than he would in Arizona. Less of an extreme microscope there, and our fans create and hold grudges (and pile on) When he gets booed and has a smarmy remark after the game, it would be over Edited April 27, 2018 by May Day 10
Malazan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Some of the posters who hate this move make me think it was a really good move.
zevo Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 I’m not sure we will ever know but I have to think Allen was the qb we wanted of the bunch, but again we will never quite know. 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: Wish Eric was going to be snapping him the ball for the next few years. 2
MPT Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: I saw that. I just wasn't sure whether people were still referencing that or the comments I just saw them play on SC where he was saying 9 teams made mistakes and he's going to make sure they know about that over the next decade. Gotcha. The comments he actually made are no different from any QB who doesn't get picked first overall. Gonna prove everyone wrong, chip on his shoulder, etc. 1
Peter Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 This has a good chance of going horribly wrong for the Bills. There is no metric relating to playing QB that supports picking Josh Allen at the top of the draft and giving up everything that we did to get there. This is an interesting article that shows that, by choosing Allen, McBeane is not Billy Beane: https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/26/17162670/nfl-draft-josh-allen-hype-vs-reality Billy Beane: "If the guy is such a great hitter, why doesn't he hit better?" I really hope that I am wrong, but if Josh Allen is such a great QB prospect (and one that is worth everything we paid to acquire him), why has he not been a better QB (especially against competition in his own conference)? McBeane will rise or fall based on this pick. A lot of coaches have had the hubris to think that they are such great coaches that they can transform a guy into something he is not (or has shown he can be). Again, I really hope I am wrong . . . . On the plus side, the kid seems to have embraced being a Buffalo Bill, is hard working and appreciative, and (according to Eddie Yarbrough) a great teammate. 1 minute ago, MPT said: Gotcha. The comments he actually made are no different from any QB who doesn't get picked first overall. Gonna prove everyone wrong, chip on his shoulder, etc. Agreed. For those of you with short memories or not old enough, this is really no different from Thurman's reaction after each team passed over him. This is repeated time and time again. 2
PaattMaann Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 27 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said: I'm trying to come around to looking at it like this. I'm still thinking we just picked Todd Blacklege over Dan Marino, though. Grrrrrr give it time...its a lot more fun to be hopeful than hopeless...and we just don't know (and wont for a few years) 1
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