FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Beane was adamant he wanted a QB who can play from the pocket and has accuracy and anticipation. Then he traded Tyrod Taylor who couldn't do any of those things. Then he traded up for Josh Allen who can't do any of these things. I hope I'm dead wrong about him and he makes me eat my words. I would be the happiest Bills fan if he could do that but I can't see it.
Nihilarian Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Good read. http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/04/2018_nfl_draft_why_josh_allen_thinks_hes_a_perfect_fit_for_the_buffalo_bills.html "I think out of all four or five quarterbacks in this draft, I'm the one that was suited for Buffalo," Allen said. "The type of atmosphere that you have to play in, the weather. The type of toughness it takes to play in a cold weather place. I was that guy. I'm fortunate enough that they came up to get me and I'm going to be forever grateful to be a Buffalo Bill. Hopefully I call this place home for the next 15-20 years." 2 minutes ago, Nervous Guy said: Favre 40 to 54% in college and he improved once in the NFL as did Matthew Stafford, Tyrod Taylor, and others. and among those others, Joe Montana was a 52.4 to 54.2 percent passer. 2
Jerome007 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 2 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: Diaper needs changing first. People seem pretty mad about this, others seem ecstatic, and I don't blame either side for feeling how they do. He was the most polarizing QB in the draft. Experts either thought he was going to be Jesus Christ Superstar, or the next Kyle Boller, and we're adamant about either side. The only thing the experts agreed on was that there was no middle ground with him, very "boom or bust". I do agree with you about the crying, people need to stop the personal attacks and calling people idiots for liking Allen, but they also need to stop calling people idiots for not liking him. He has very real and tangible strengths, but also very huge flaws and a long way to go before he is ready to be effective. Both sides have valid points, and nobody is an idiot for feeling either way about him. I preferred Rosen, but I'm positive they didn't like his durability concerns, and didn't want Bradford2.0 with the fiberglass skeleton. Your franchise QB is useless if he can't stay on the field. My biggest gripe was that we paid #12 and TWO second round picks for Allen, when the Cardinals paid #15 a 3rd and a 5th for Rosen. Feels like we got fleeced, but you know what? If he even turns into a top10 guy it was worth it, and if he becomes elite, it was a freaking steal. Go Bills. Fingers crossed Allen was the right pick. Exactly! I'm sure we're all uneasy about this pick but IT IS A RISK WORTH TAKING. The top 4 QBs were anyway. Allen is even more a risk but his ceiling is higher. They better have a great QB coach for him, which they don't at the moment. But anyway, he is our QB now, so what's the point of dissing the guy??? What good does he do him or the team us fans root for? I don't get it, all those "it's so Billsy" comments and all that crap. If you feel the team is such a losing cause, root for another one and leave! There is a big difference between valid criticism and purely negative constant rantings. 1
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Allen was not my favored prospect because of uncertainty about his ability to process at the pro speed and some inconsistency in accuracy. I thought a better route was to hope for one of the other 3 top QB's or keep picks and take somebody lower. But a lot of football people and scouts liked Allen regardless and they could be right as well. We have him now, so lets support him and get on with life. We got a stud linebacker and what might be a very good QB in the first two rounds. Let's hope we can back-fill the o-line with something and have a good year. One good thing about Allen is that it will become obvious within two years if what I think are issues are real or not. We can take another swing at a franchise QB in 2020.
Rosen-not-Chosen Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 30 minutes ago, ganesh said: It is simply amazing how the fans are turning around without even giving this kid a chance We want a franchise QB because the franchise has not had one for decades, this kid is a low percentage proposition... Rosen was right there for the taking, just remember that 10 years from now!
SouthNYfan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rosen-not-Chosen said: We want a franchise QB because the franchise has not had one for decades, this kid is a low percentage proposition... Rosen was right there for the taking, just remember that 10 years from now! Your username indicates no bias at all.
Rosen-not-Chosen Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: Your username indicates no bias at all. Yeah of course, Beane screwed up.
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 38 minutes ago, ganesh said: we as fans have no right to crucify him or this front office. Wow! Better check my brain at the gates of OBD, huh? Well, I guess since so many fans do that exact thing, what good is independent reasoning Join the party. Break out the flaming tables...
Sky Diver Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, mjt328 said: Brett Favre was extremely accurate. Brett Favre could read a defense. Yes, his arm strength was fantastic. But it wasn't the only thing that made him great. And it didn't give him a "higher ceiling" than other top QBs of his day. To be honest, despite having an A+ arm, Favre was not as great as he could have been. His decision-making was often questionable. And it's the main reason that Favre only won a single Super Bowl. Favre had a lower completion percentage in college that Allen. I think it was 52% and he was pretty great.
Dr. K Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Lurker said: No offense, but Palmer is being paid by Allen as his 'consultant.'.. Read this article and tell me you're comfortable with the pick: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/4/25/17277580/draft-qb-thoughts-baker-mayfield-lamar-jackson-josh-allen Wow. That article is devastating. I was very skeptical before, and granted this is one person's opinion (though apparently lot of others see the same problems), but this suggest the Bills are headed for a major disappointment. From day one I have not been impressed with Beane's personnel decisions. This one could be the one that sets the Bills back years and defines his tenure as a GM--and shortens it.
Greywolf Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Carmel Corn said: Yeah right...FUN is not how it looks to me. Maybe somebody should check to see if there are any statistics on how many people in Buffalo last night: - Threw-up - Suffered a heart attack - Kicked their dog - Destroyed their televisions - Beat their wives - Hung themselves - Etc. It's amazing how many people say "this org. has set us back X years", when they actually had some success in just one, yet the fan base immediately wants to stone them to death. Unbelievable. People on this board would not have been happy if Jesus himself was our draft pick. There is no FUN left in Buffalo! If people expressing an opinion that's different from yours ruins the fun, then a fan board is going to be a tough place to be. And, if you've been around Bills' fan boards going back the past couple decades, you know very well that the Bills have made so many ridiculous mistakes that it's quite reasonable to take issue with their draft decisions. Remember the JP Losman/Trent Edwards years? Multiple seasons lost to failure because the franchise wouldn't admit they'd gotten it completely wrong. There are plenty of other examples of a tradition of ineptitude in Buffalo. If fans don't drink the Kool Aid like you want them to, it's because we've got about a quarter century of bad FO decisions to look back on. That's not stoning the Bills, that's just acknowledging reality. Questioning the FO decision to draft Allen is not the same as refusing to support him now that he is a Bill. I think almost everyone criticising the Allen pick is focusing on the draft strategy and the other options available, not saying they hope Allen fails. I would bet that almost every poster who has criticized the selection still strongly hopes Allen will be a success. 2
Mat68 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Juror#8 said: Bill, I respect your fandom and your posts more than you know. I’ve been reading your thoughts for 8 years and they make this board a special place for us Bills fans. Along with Lori (where are you) and ten or so others, you’re one of the handful of ‘always valued posters’ in my book. Now that I’ve said all that, I think you may be trivializing some of the Josh Allen skepticism. I want the guy to be successful here. I was minimally critical of the pick (because I thought Rosen later would be better than Allen sooner while also conserving some draft capital) but I also said that I [obviously] hope [and think] Allen has the potential to have a fantastic career here. But his accuracy issues are unmistakable. His accuracy issues in a bad conference playing against subpar competition with receivers who didn’t drop a lot of balls (4.8% is what I read). That’s a lower percentage than Rosen, Jackson, and Rudolph. But they all had higher completion percentages. I read somewhere (and I think this is true), that evaluators overrate tall, strong arm, qbs and feel that they can fix any and everything else. Thats my concern. That he is Jamarcus Russell. Russell who had a similar skill set and similar completion accuracy issues (arguably a more questionable work ethic though). He has a big arm and I think that there is an enamorment there (rightfully so). But like some evaluator so eloquently said long ago, I don’t want to hope that Allen can complete enough 50 yard bombs so that I forget he misses 5 yard passes by 10 yards. Thats my concern in a nutshell. I hope that the scouting folks are right and my skepticism is misplaced. If he develops a drug and weight problem he may. For year Buffalo needs a Qb. Buffalo trades up and gets to picks between 2 very good players at QB and they went with the guy with more potenial and better fit for the team lets cry because its not "my guy". Time for the arm chair scouts to go back to their 9 to 5 jobs. The reality is Buffalo has the best Qb they have had since Kelly. He is he first Qb the franchise has ever selected inside the top 10. Rumor has it Buffalo had to give up both second rounders to outbid Arizona. Buffalo got the guy they want while keeping 22. Last night was a great night time to enjoy the ride. Edited April 27, 2018 by Mat68
BADOLBILZ Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Magox said: Bill, I think most of the hate comes from the fact that the stigma that follows him is one of an inaccurate passer, primarily because of his 56% passer rating. I think in some fans minds shades of EJ Manuel come to mind. To be honest with you alot of this is on-the-surface analysis because the fact is he played in a system that relied on the long ball (which he has a beautiful deep ball) that naturally will net a lower completion %, he had a bad line that didn't give a lot of time to throw the ball and awful receivers who couldn't separate. When you actually see the video of some of his games, you see that the label of being a woefully inaccurate passer simply aren't true. Yes, he does have some accuracy issues but not nearly as pronounced as what his reputation would have you believe. The kid makes unbelievable throws in right windows and on the run. He's also am anticipation thrower, something we haven't had in a long while. He's a hard worker and he is very bright. I don't believe he will be a bust and i happen to think his floor is much higher than most. The comparisons to EJ are pretty comical.........EJ could only dream of having arm talent like Allen. 3
IDBillzFan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, T-Bomb said: Loser fans deserve a loser franchise I guess... Funny. I always thought loser fans were the one's who hate it when anyone remains optimistic about things over which they literally have no control. Thanks for clarifying. Note to OP: I mentioned elsewhere that given no one can predict the success or failure of our picks, I'm at least grateful that we had a desperate need for a QB and LB and didn't trade up to grab a corner.
The Frankish Reich Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: The comparisons to EJ are pretty comical.........EJ could only dream of having arm talent like Allen. Someone cue up that pre-draft video of EJ in that tire/accuracy drill.
Dr. K Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: The tweet haters are just irrational and unforgiving. i had the same nooooooo reaction because accuracy problems are hardest, by a lot to fix. Billick said its what ended his career with Boller and his own arrogance that he can fix an inaccurate QB. Aikman last night said the same last night after the Allen pick. its not just about completion percentage, if you watch him play, closely, his ball placement is poor. At the senior bowl practice, he missed a stationary 1x1 target 5 yards away, others hit it with ease. He missed it by a lot. He was head head to head with the most accurate pinpoint passer in a long time at 7. Rosen was a far better choice to many, and it wasn’t close. We’ve seen the bills get guys that had it all except accuracy... EJ, JP, other teams too... Hackenberg, Skelton now, he’s the guy. They need to throw every resource at what I hope they KNOW is a correctable issue they have seen on film. The new regime is now now either going to be smarter than everyone else or fired in 3 seasons or less. With yet another reboot to follow. i hope that the fact he never really focused on just football until college and never had top notch coaching means they can still change his grip or something simple like that to get him to some semblance of nfl accuracy. I agree the grousing sing needs to stop, and we need to hope these guys got it right. I am glad they minimized what we lost to get him and got a nice LB prospect too. Time will tell. He better Get to work This is the thing that has just driven me crazy about McDermott and Beane from day one: their conviction that they are the smartest guys in the room. Their continual insistence that we should "trust the process" which is simply a mystical smokescreen for "trust our decisions no matter whether they make any sense." I think Allen will be a huge bust and, as you say, that they will be out of here in three years.
Nihilarian Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 24 minutes ago, Dr. K said: Wow. That article is devastating. I was very skeptical before, and granted this is one person's opinion (though apparently lot of others see the same problems), but this suggest the Bills are headed for a major disappointment. From day one I have not been impressed with Beane's personnel decisions. This one could be the one that sets the Bills back years and defines his tenure as a GM--and shortens it. 2 and that same guy who wrote that article also loved Johhny football and Geno Smith. You can't watch tape of a kid playing in his first two years of college ball and think this will what he will do with the rest of his life. Josh Allen was like 10th grader playing with a bunch of 8th graders around him as he had to carry the team most of the time. This was a scrawny 198lb kid who grew into that big frame in his time at Wyoming. He played in the snow, the cold, the wind at Wyoming and is a blue collar type guy not afraid of hard work. A perfect fit for Buffalo I think. Give the guy a chance before you and others condemn him.
Rosen-not-Chosen Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Another Fan said: They must have saw traits in him Beane and McDermott liked. Then you have to seriously question their talent evaluation process, as well as question Pegula's leadership skills as the owner. Pegula has done nothing but whiff on hiring of coaches & GM's since he bought the Buffalo teams. This pick is likely an epic fail in terms of this franchise's history.
Sky Diver Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, Dr. K said: Wow. That article is devastating. I was very skeptical before, and granted this is one person's opinion (though apparently lot of others see the same problems), but this suggest the Bills are headed for a major disappointment. From day one I have not been impressed with Beane's personnel decisions. This one could be the one that sets the Bills back years and defines his tenure as a GM--and shortens it. Written by a college football fan. I'll trust the Bills' scouting department.
Dr. K Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: and that same guy who wrote that article also loved Johhny football and Geno Smith. You can't watch tape of a kid playing in his first two years of college ball and think this will what he will do with the rest of his life. Josh Allen was like 10th grader playing with a bunch of 8th graders around him as he had to carry the team most of the time. This was a scrawny 198lb kid who grew into that big frame in his time at Wyoming. He played in the snow, the cold, the wind at Wyoming and is a blue collar type guy not afraid of hard work. A perfect fit for Buffalo I think. Give the guy a chance before you and others condemn him. And he can't hit the broad side of a barn. The one thing I would think we would have figured out over the last twenty seasons of QB play in Buffalo, given Losman, Fitz, EJ, Tyrod, etc., is that ACCURACY is vastly more important to successful QB play than arm strength or height or escapability. The Bills drafted the one QB of those touted for the first round who has the most trouble with accuracy. If he is successful, I will come here and say I was wrong.
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