What I Don't Understand About Fan Reaction to Allen

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The tweet haters are just irrational and unforgiving.

 

i had the same nooooooo reaction because accuracy problems are hardest, by a lot to fix. 

 

Billick said its what ended his career with Boller and his own arrogance that he can fix an inaccurate QB. 

 

Aikman last night said the same last night after the Allen pick. 

 

its not just about completion percentage, if you watch him play, closely, his ball placement is poor.

 

At the senior bowl practice, he missed a stationary 1x1 target 5 yards away, others hit it with ease. He missed it by a lot. 

 

He was head head to head with the most accurate pinpoint passer in a long time at 7.  Rosen was a far better choice to many, and it wasn’t close. 

 

We’ve seen the bills get guys that had it all except accuracy... EJ, JP, other teams too... Hackenberg, Skelton 

 

now, he’s the guy. They need to throw every resource at what I hope they KNOW is a correctable issue they have seen on film.

 

The new regime is now now either going to be smarter than everyone else or fired in 3 seasons or less. With yet another reboot to follow. 

 

i hope that the fact he never really focused on just football until college and never had top notch coaching means they can still change his grip or something simple like that to get him to some semblance of nfl accuracy. 

 

I agree the grousing sing needs to stop, and we need to hope these guys got it right. I am glad they minimized what we lost to get him and got a nice LB prospect too. Time will tell. He better Get to work

[Nihilarian]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The relevance of that article is the links it aggregates.   Not the writer's opinion.    The data / stats collectively are horrondous...

That writer also loved Geno Smith and Johnny Manziel says enough to me that this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. 

 

You didn't even read the article I linked! Read the entire article and then get back to me. 

 

 

Of course, the big question with Allen is his accuracy and his 56.2 completion percentage, which scares the heck out of offensive coaches. But guess what?

"We've fixed it,'' said Palmer.

He said with Allen's poor completion percentage "there are two ways to look at it: one, what he's doing mechanically, and then two what's happening around him, receivers and the concepts and the coverages that they're seeing and there's a lot of complexities that go into both of those.

"From a mechanics standpoint you have to be athletic enough take an old muscle memory and create a new muscle memory. Take something that was an old habit and replace it with the new habit. With Josh, it was tied to his base and kind of where his feet are placed and how short his front stride is. And so making a small adjustment has made a huge impact.''

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

So you criticize them no matter what they do.  Makes no sense.

 

Why don't you address my point at face value.  I would be critical of two different paths - not taking a QB at all (which they wisely didn't do), or trading a bunch of assets for the riskiest QB pick in the draft (which they did do).  There were many other paths I wouldn't have criticized, like drafting Rosen, trading up for Darnold, trading a couple of 2s for Nick Foles, etc.

 

You're such a cranky skin sore.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've had opinions about past idiotic pics.  It seems to me others have too.

 

I'm glad we pulled the trigger and acquired a QB who is highly rated by many draft analysts.

 

Back in Da Day, I thought Fitzpatrick could improve his accuracy and decision making and become a more consistent good QB.

Then I thought EJ could improve his accuracy and ability to read the field and become a good QB

 

I was wrong, they could not

 

Even people who love Allen say he needs to improve his accuracy and decision making

 

I'm afraid in picking him, the Bills will find out he can not and therefore picking him when the accurate, high-level game knowledge Rosen was there, is wrong

 

Do I welcome Allen to Buffalo and want him to succeed? 

 

Yes

 

 

 

[dlonce]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

I’ve watched him play and don’t think he’s any good. 

 

I’ve watched him play too,  I’m positive he’s good.

[BeginnersMind]

All the anger and upset. Haha. Let it go people. Enjoy the moment. Have a little fun. 

 

It is a game. It is entertainment. 

 

Our little corner of fans just added two good young kids. I’m now the hugest Allen and Edwards supporter on the planet. 

 

Thats not Pollyanna. If they play badly, I’ll comment on it. But for now I’m enjoying these great talents joining the Bills and doing good things on and off the field. 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Why don't you address my point at face value.  I would be critical of two different paths - not taking a QB at all (which they wisely didn't do), or trading a bunch of assets for the riskiest QB pick in the draft (which they did do).  There were many other paths I wouldn't have criticized, like drafting Rosen, trading up for Darnold, trading a couple of 2s for Nick Foles, etc.

 

You're such a cranky skin sore.

I would not have spent a bunch of picks to get to 2 because I didn't see a big difference between the 4.  I would have liked Rosen more than Allen and have said so repeatedly. But I also don't think I have more knowledge than Beane as so many here do.

[Teddy KGB]

2 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

I’ve watched him play and don’t think he’s any good. 

 

Big Jp Losman is ours 

[BeginnersMind]

1 minute ago, dlonce said:

 

I’ve watched him play too,  I’m positive he’s good.

 

89999997 mock drafts showing him as a top 10  pick agree with you. 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, jr1 said:

 

 

Orlovsky laid it out: Allen's weakness is he needs to learn to play QB

So there you have it, Bill: the Bills traded up for the #7 overall pick and used it on a guy who Dan Orlovsky tags as needing to learn to play QB

 

Question for anyone:  Orlovsky said that Daboll should employ spread offense concepts to help Allen out.  But I thought Allen did not play in a spread offense?

 

[dubs]

2 hours ago, T-Bomb said:

 

And fans like you are simply useless tbh...

 

No matter what dumbass FO this organization hires, you just sit there with your thumb up your ass, drinking the KoolAid, assuming the FO can do no wrong, because they are "your Bills".  Whatever colossal draft mistake they make, you'll support it in lemming-like fashion,  It's pathetic.

 

Loser fans deserve a loser franchise I guess...

 

 

Really?  Those are the only two choices?  That’s the binary?  Either totally onboard and a loser fan, or totally against and woke?

 

come on, grow up. There’s a lot of room in the middle. 

 

 

[BeginnersMind]

It’s a false dichotomy to say they had the choice of the best passer vs the biggest bust potential. You could also say they had the choice of the strongest passing arm vs the guy with the biggest chance to retire in 6 months due to concussions. 

 

Bills swung for the fences. I like that. If they missed, they missed. Tick tock. My life goes on. 

[Nihilarian]

11 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

The tweet haters are just irrational and unforgiving.

 

i had the same nooooooo reaction because accuracy problems are hardest, by a lot to fix. 

 

Billick said its what ended his career with Boller and his own arrogance that he can fix an inaccurate QB. 

 

Aikman last night said the same last night after the Allen pick. 

 

its not just about completion percentage, if you watch him play, closely, his ball placement is poor.

 

At the senior bowl practice, he missed a stationary 1x1 target 5 yards away, others hit it with ease. He missed it by a lot. 

 

He was head head to head with the most accurate pinpoint passer in a long time at 7.  Rosen was a far better choice to many, and it wasn’t close. 

 

We’ve seen the bills get guys that had it all except accuracy... EJ, JP, other teams too... Hackenberg, Skelton 

 

now, he’s the guy. They need to throw every resource at what I hope they KNOW is a correctable issue they have seen on film.

 

The new regime is now now either going to be smarter than everyone else or fired in 3 seasons or less. With yet another reboot to follow. 

 

i hope that the fact he never really focused on just football until college and never had top notch coaching means they can still change his grip or something simple like that to get him to some semblance of nfl accuracy. 

 

I agree the grousing sing needs to stop, and we need to hope these guys got it right. I am glad they minimized what we lost to get him and got a nice LB prospect too. Time will tell. He better Get to work

11

There is also a huge difference between Boller and Allen. Boller played four years at Cal and his Comp percentage was 38.6, second year, 46.7, third-year 49.3 and his senior year 53.4. Allen was only a two year player at Wyoming and his first year his completion percentage was 56.0 and his senior year was 56.3 which really isn't that far from 60%.

 

Billick was also an arrogant jackass in thinking he could fix Boller.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nihilarian

[RevWarRifleman]

I think Bill, that there's some paranoia by many Bill's fans about the QB position due to the 18+ years of failure at the position.  

[mjt328]

Here is the thing I have never understood about QB prospects like Josh Allen:

Scouts always say he has the biggest upside, the highest ceiling and the most potential. 

 

BUT WHY?

 

Is it because the guy is 1-2 inches taller and 10-20 pounds heavier than the average NFL Quarterback?

I can understand why scouts are skeptical of short guys.  There are numerous problems associated with field vision on guys under 6'1.   But I don't see how a guy who stands 6'5 holds any advantage over someone who stands 6'4.  It's totally irrelevant towards how good a guy can be.

 

Is it because of his arm strength, and the fact he can throw an 80-yard bomb? 

Once again, I can understand how scouts would be concerned about a guy with a weak arm.  But once it's clear a QB can make all of the necessary NFL throws without an issue, how is arm strength even a factor?  Most of the NFL greats have had very average arms (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana).  There are obviously NFL greats with strong arms (Marino, Elway), but it wasn't just because of how hard/fast they could throw a football.

 

Is it because of his athletic ability, and how well he can run?

Well OK.  I guess I can see that being a really nice skill to have.  Except 99% of the offensive coordinators in the pros completely refuse to take advantage of that kind of talent, and always try to force their QBs into being standard pocket passers, with running as an absolute last resort. 

 

 

 

I've been watching this sport for 30+ years.  The greatest quarterbacks are ALWAYS those who can calmly/quickly read a defense, make smart decisions about where to throw, and then get the ball there accurately.  I have NEVER seen an NFL quarterback succeed long-term without these characteristics.  Size, arm strength and athletic ability are pointless, unless you can also develop these parts of your game.  These are all areas that Allen needs a TON of work. 

 

 

 

[JXCOL3]

Not gonna lie, at first I really wanted Rosen. Now after sleeping on it and reading articles Josh Allen is growing on me and making me curious. He seems like a great kid and he even looks like someone from our area ( Big, Joyful, Hard working, Could care less about the weather) I will support this young man and hope he turns out to be what we need.

[The Virginian]

Josh’s coach Craig Bohl talks:  http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23321086/josh-allen-apologizes-offensive-tweets-high-school-resurface

[zevo]

I am thoroughly enjoying the meltdown and in particular listening to WGR morning show...the draft couldn’t have gone any better.

[RevWarRifleman]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

He truly does deserve a chance. The kid seems happy to be in Buffalo.

 

Remember when Gilmore was drafted? I blasted that pick as well and most posters were thrilled by the pick. Yet when the selection was announced, the only person sadder than me was Stephon Gilmore. He was going to be the "shut down corner," no?  Meanwhile he was quite average and his effort was well below average.

 

We missed with player after player in round 1 and neglected the most important positions. Now I think it is time to cheer on our new young quarterback!  

Agree

[racketmaster]

Wow, listening to the WGR guys this morning is depressing. Very similar to the atmosphere after the election results in 16. People became so invested in the process that it has become very personal.  The waters seem to be poisoned for Allen because opinions have been formed and it will be difficult for some to change them. I can't wait for the first videos to emerge of Allen missing a target in practice to be posted online. 

 

I loved Darnold but must admit he had his own faults (loopy throwing motion and prone to turnovers). They all had issues and flags. As a qb prospect, Allen is as physically gifted as I have seen since Cam Newton. So there is potential there. As Bills fans I hope that we can get behind the kid or at least have some patience.