What I Don't Understand About Fan Reaction to Allen

[HappyDays]

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it can be improved on. Peyton Manning IMO is an good example of a guy who retooled his footwork to extend his career once his arm strength faded and he got injured...he started doing those choppy little half-steps so his arm wouldn't have to make up for an out-of-position platform. It wasn't pretty but it worked. 

 

I don't know man, footwork and accuracy are one of those things that just doesn't improve from college to the pros. I've seen a few people say that Allen made some inaccurate throws even when the mechanics were sound. Accuracy is something in the brain and I don't know if it can be fixed. I'm supporting the pick now out of pure desperation but when I think about it for too long I cringe.

[Rico]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Ryan Mallett comes to mind when I hear "great big Jethro QB" (great term!). Allen is by all accounts a good, mobile athlete, though: 4.75 40, which is REALLY good for someone that size. Mallett was 5.37!

Ugh, I was so, so afraid the Bills would draft Mallett. Yes, he is a textbook Jethro lol, but even worse, he was so anti-clutch in the SEC.

 

I’m looking forward to seeing Allen this pre-season,  and I really hope he’s up-to-speed by 2019. Can’t help it, shiny new toys are fun! (until they are not)

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Not true Todd Downing Carrs qb coach coached EJ. He also had the same collegiate coaching as Winston and every year he went to qb clinics. Ej failed because ej was a bad qb, not for lack of resources committed or work ethic.

4

4

Not true? 

 

Downing was EJ's coach in his second season and the damage had already been done. Downing's only year in Buffalo was in 2014 and EJ was drafted in 2013 season. The Bills went into that 2013 season with three QBs on the roster, EJ, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel.  No QB coach or offensive mind other than Nathanial Hackett...who most Bills fans deemed an Idiot.

 

Besides, EJ himself stated that he learned more from watching Kyle Orton prepare for a game than anything any coach had done for him. That statement leads me to believe that Downing was pretty much useless.

 

EJ failed because his coaches failed him and screwed him in his rookie season.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Nihilarian]

On another note, I think the Buffalo Bills need to thank whoever released Josh Allen's tweets from high school as that surely caused him to drop in the draft.

 

I would literally hate life had the Jets drafted Allen and the Bills would then need to face that kid 2x a year for over the next decade or more. If not for those Tweets Allen probably goes #1 overall or to the Jets.

 

The Bills FO moved so quickly on Allen as soon as another team would allow them to move up to draft him.  I have to wonder if some team investigating his background found those and released them.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Nihilarian

[Bill_with_it]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Not true? 

 

Downing was EJ's coach in his second season and the damage had already been done. Downing's only year in Buffalo was in 2014 and EJ was drafted in 2013 season. The Bills went into that 2013 season with three QBs on the roster, EJ, Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel.  No QB coach or offensive mind other than Nathanial Hackett...who most Bills fans deemed an Idiot.

 

Besides, EJ himself stated that he learned more from watching Kyle Orton prepare for a game than anything any coach had done for him. That statement leads me to believe that Downing was pretty much useless.

 

EJ failed because his coaches failed him and screwed him in his rookie season.

Not true at all. I watched him in college and in the pros. He was at qb clinics all the time seeking help. Jimbo at FSU is a good coach of a good program. EJ was doomed because he was bad qb; nothing less nothing more. Noone could make him a franchise qb except for the big guy upstairs. 

[QCity]

15 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

95+% of these posters have never watched him in a game. They read a few draft breakdowns, and then went on Youtube and watched some highlight reels. True experts indeed. The kid's complete percentage is 4.7% off from Rosen's and they are acting like he can't hit the side of a barn. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

Not true Todd Downing Carrs qb coach coached EJ. He also had the same collegiate coaching as Winston and every year he went to qb clinics. Ej failed because ej was a bad qb, not for lack of resources committed or work ethic.

 

1) When was Todd Downing employed by the Buffalo Bills?

2) Did the Bills employ a QB coach in 2013 to help the QB in the room, day in day out week in week out, during the season?

3) Did EJM have a veteran QB in the QB room in 2013?

 

Not saying that EJ would have succeeded - but the Bills did NOT treat him right

 

Similar worry with Allen, actually, with Culley and Daboll.  They should hire the best QB development guy they can.

[PlayoffsPlease]

15 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

No.  Because he averaged 164 yards per game with a 56% completion percentage in the Mountain West Conference.

Is that the conference Blue Mountain State plays in? 

[PromoTheRobot]

I heard over and over it would have been irresponsible if the Bills NOT to trade picks to move up. Was I lied to?

[Doc Brown]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I heard over and over it would have been irresponsible if the Bills NOT to trade picks to move up. Was I lied to?

I think most people assumed it would be for Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield.  Allen wasn't the most popular player on this board.

[dayman]

Most of the fans/board supported the EJ Manuel pick. I was roasted for melting down and blasting it. 

 

Allen has way more likelihood to succeed than EJ. It was a fine pick. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I think most people assumed it would be for Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield.  Allen wasn't the most popular player on this board.

And fans feel that way because a lot of "experts" painted an unflattering portrait of Allen. But our front office targeted him. So who's right?

[Bill_with_it]

35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

1) When was Todd Downing employed by the Buffalo Bills?

2) Did the Bills employ a QB coach in 2013 to help the QB in the room, day in day out week in week out, during the season?

3) Did EJM have a veteran QB in the QB room in 2013?

 

Not saying that EJ would have succeeded - but the Bills did NOT treat him right

 

Similar worry with Allen, actually, with Culley and Daboll.  They should hire the best QB development guy they can.

When did EJ not go to a qb camp in the off season?

Did Winston properly develop under Jimbo?

Is it a requirement to have a have a college qb who played in 43 college games, four years, and threw 897 passes a veteran to “learn” from?

Next, did EJ produce anymore consistently when he had Orton and Downing on the team?

Finally, why isnt he developed now?

[Augie]

I was dismayed. I’m now basically onboard, until I’m fully onboard......or I’m rearranging deck chairs when we hit the iceberg. What else can I do? 

[Bing Bong]

16 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee?

like the post but don't diss McGahee. Dude was a baller.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Bill_with_it said:

When did EJ not go to a qb camp in the off season?

Did Winston properly develop under Jimbo?

Is it a requirement to have a have a college qb who played in 43 college games, four years, and threw 897 passes a veteran to “learn” from?

Next, did EJ produce anymore consistently when he had Orton and Downing on the team?

Finally, why isnt he developed now?

 

The question is: did the team that drafted EJ, The Bills under Marrone, take all reasonable steps to ensure that EJ had every chance to develop as a QB?

 

None of your questions address that question.  The answer is "No.  No, they did not", and whether or not EJ "went to a camp" in offseaons, how another QB developed in college, and to that point, EJ's development or lack thereof are moot.

 

Not sure what you mean by "is it a requirement"? Since the NFL game is faster and more complex than the college game, obviously it is helpful to a newly drafted QB to have a veteran around to ask questions.  Beane has commented on this as something they wanted.

16 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And fans feel that way because a lot of "experts" painted an unflattering portrait of Allen. But our front office targeted him. So who's right?

 

Time will tell.

[Bill_with_it]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The question is: did the team that drafted EJ, The Bills under Marrone, take all reasonable steps to ensure that EJ had every chance to develop as a QB?

 

None of your questions address that question.  The answer is "No.  No, they did not", and whether or not EJ "went to a camp" in offseaons, how another QB developed in college, and to that point, EJ's development or lack thereof are moot.

 

Not sure what you mean by "is it a requirement"? Since the NFL game is faster and more complex than the college game, obviously it is helpful to a newly drafted QB to have a veteran around to ask questions.  Beane has commented on this as something they wanted.

 

Time will tell.

No its not. 

Those were your questions.

Having a qb coach, a veteran in the locker room, and those others are niceties that have and havent historically been proven to work.

At some point the kid who started on a pro type offense for four years, throwing the ball close to 900 times, having another 4 offseasons under nfl coaching (regardless how you make it ssem they handed him a ball and let him do whatever), in addition to the no less than 2 qb camps he went to during his tenure with the Bills has his fate solely decided by him and no other. Im done with this topic. Ej busted and there is nothing else the Bills or EJ could have possibly done to ensure that he is a franchise QB.

[Nihilarian]

59 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Not true at all. I watched him in college and in the pros. He was at qb clinics all the time seeking help. Jimbo at FSU is a good coach of a good program. EJ was doomed because he was bad qb; nothing less nothing more. Noone could make him a franchise qb except for the big guy upstairs. 

3

Do you not understand that rookie QBs not only need help from a QB coach all during the 16 game season, they also get a great deal of help from a veteran QB on the roster and their OC?

 

The QB position is probably the most cerebral positions in all of the professional sports. Learning the playbook, all the plays, the nomenclature with the play calling, film study and breakdown of a game tape. Learning how to read a defense, set offensive line protections.

 

Not only did EJ not have a QB coach his rookie season nor a veteran QB to learn from. The only offensive mind in the teams offensive coaching staff was Hackett who was never an NFL OC previously. 

 

Can you seriously not comprehend how this would impair a rookie QB's proper development? I have NEVER, EVER heard of an NFL team attempting to develop a rookie QB with no real qualified people on the coaching staff to develop him.

 

In real life as a normal person, it would be like taking a job as a tool and die, maker, apprentice only to find that there is nobody around you qualified to properly train you. It's a 100% setup for failure. 

[transplantbillsfan]

22 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

You can think whatever you want to think, I don’t really care. I have my reason why I don’t like the pick. If you want to trust the people that get paid to make these picks then go ahead but I won’t simply disregard what I believe just Because there are people in an NFL front office that feel differently. There were also people getting paid to scout for a living who thought EJ Manual was a franchise QB as well. These guys get it wrong all the time.

 

People that don’t scout for a living have a lot of resources to make informed opinions. If I’m wrong about him then that’s great. I just don’t see his flaws improving enough to make him great.

 

Bang, I loathed this pick the moment it happened. Then, when it did happen, knowing I would have to either delude myself with hope or legitimately get some, I watched and listened to everything I could with Allen... I watched highlights before the draft, including some "all the throws" stuff from the Boise St game and that, combined with his mediocre numbers combined with history made me despise the idea of drafting him.

 

and then...

 

Well... after imbibing as much as possible on Allen over the last 24 hours, I actually think he's a bit of a unique case and stands a decent, though not great chance to be something special.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 4/27/2018 at 4:22 AM, Bill from NYC said:

I have been on this wonderful board for many, many years. Now, I am reading these posts that are absolutely hating the Allen pick and it is hard to understand why. Almost every season, I was on this board blasting yet another idiotic first round pick by the Bills. For instance:  A #8 (in a stacked draft) on an undersized Donte Whitner? How about a 1st on a half dead Willis McGahee? In 2008 we had a very poor OL. It was awful. We drafted Leotis McKelvin, passing up both Ryan Clady and Branden Albert.

 

I could go on and on but my point is that fans were generally supportive of these clearly stupid picks. Now, we finally use resources on a big, strong quarterback and most people seem to hate the kid. Why? Because he said stupid things when he was a toddler? Because he went to a small school?

 

After what seemed like forever, we took a chance on solidifying the most important position on the field. We moved up to make sure we landed a qb with a cannon arm. What is SO freaking bad?

 

I for one am glad that we did something smart (for a change) in round 1, and welcome this young man to Buffalo.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I love the talent , toughness and work ethic, but I am worried about his consistency. Some throws were absolutely mind blowing, while others were what the hell was that ??

 

I've heard radio people say he can't read defenses but can't say for myself but I hope it's not true. If so I believe we have the coaching staff to teach him as this is something that can be taught.

 

I'm cautiously optimistic and am praying he becomes elite.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
remove gratuitous political insults