NewEraBills Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, bobobonators said: College: Allen 5066yds 44td 21int Wentz 5115yds 45td 14int College Wentz = Championships and WON games; never mind his last season he only played 7 games. College Allen = No championships; struggled against Secondaries in his conference with no NFL talent, but it's his WR's fault. Plus low completion percentage. you can post all the numbers you want. I've watched the tape. Timing and anticipation is not there with him. With Wentz it was. I'm not going to even get into all of this. It's been discussed repeatedly. Allen is not the prospect that Wentz was and the comparisons really need to stop. Now that we are stuck with Allen I'll hope for the best, but I do not feel good about selecting him at all.
bobobonators Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: That's a plus to wentz, not Allen. Agreed. But my response was to Wentz “lighting up” his conference and Allen doing “nothing” in college.
Wagon Circler Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: I'm calling BS. Edmunds comes in and is the starter on day one. Who does he have to beat out? Ramon Humber? 2
bobobonators Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: College Wentz = Championships and WON games; never mind his last season he only played 7 games. College Allen = No championships; struggled against Secondaries in his conference with no NFL talent, but it's his WR's fault. Plus low completion percentage. you can post all the numbers you want. I've watched the tape. Timing and anticipation is not there with him. With Wentz it was. I'm not going to even get into all of this. It's been discussed repeatedly. Allen is not the prospect that Wentz was and the comparisons really need to stop. Now that we are stuck with Allen I'll hope for the best, but I do not feel good about selecting him at all. Thats fine. But comparisons of Rosen to Aaron Rodgers are kosher. 1
Domdab99 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 57 minutes ago, bobobonators said: The Eagles used the exact same descriptions for Wentz: great size, athletic, big arm. Worked just fine for the idiots in Philly last yr. And where else? When else?
BullBuchanan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: It's funny how fans and media know that accuracy is something that can never improve (therefore a qb who had poor accuracy in college will never succeed in the NFL) yet Allen was still considered In the top tier of the draft this year and at times discussed as the #1 overall pick by the professional front office personal of real NFL teams... What evidence do you have to suggest it IS possible? History is against you. Even the greats like Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Brady had career accuracy numbers within a couple points of their college careers. I really don't think you appreciate how bad 56% really is. Edited April 27, 2018 by BullBuchanan
BillsFan692 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) Brett Favre 52% Wtf is the difference in 5% completion rate that doesn't take into account things like dropped passes??? I mean seriously 5% difference between Rosen and Allen at the collegiate level and it doesn't even account for all reasons (that is to say the 5% difference could be caused by lots of factors). I'm not worried about a 5% completion differential nor do I think college stats translate into the NFL or every RGIII of the world would be a superstar and they are not. Edited April 27, 2018 by BillsFan692
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, bobobonators said: Thats fine. But comparisons of Rosen to Aaron Rodgers are kosher. Rosen: Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career UCLA 712 1170 60.9 9340 8.0 8.0 59 26 140.1 *2015 UCLA Pac-12 FR QB 13 292 487 60.0 3669 7.5 7.5 23 11 134.3 2016 UCLA Pac-12 SO QB 6 137 231 59.3 1915 8.3 8.2 10 5 138.9 *2017 UCLA Pac-12 JR QB 11 283 452 62.6 3756 8.3 8.5 26 10 147.0 Rogers: Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career California 424 665 63.8 5469 8.2 8.6 43 13 150.3 *2003 California Pac-10 SO QB 13 215 349 61.6 2903 8.3 8.8 19 5 146.6 *2004 California Pac-10 JR QB 12 209 316 66.1 2566 8.1 8.5 24 8 154.3
Inigo Montoya Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) People are so upset about the Josh Allen pick like they know with certainty that he will fail, as if they have a time machine and have already seen his entire career play out. This board is bordering on hysterics. Kurt Warner didn’t even get drafted and he’s in the Hall. Ryan Leaf #2 overall and was an epic fail. Tom Brady, sixth rounder, GOAT. Sam Bradford, #1 pick, highest paid player in NFL history, no rings, and at the end of the day a professional journeyman QB. But we're all supposed to believe that Allen is going to fail and there is no doubt about it. The pick is a disaster. He has no chance to be successful. Zero. Fit Josh Rosen for his gold jacket right now. Josh Allen will be selling life insurance in Tonawanda in five years. I’d appreciate if one of you people here who can see the future so clearly on this NFL fan message board would send me a private message, I’ve got some money to invest and I want to retire early. Of course, it makes you wonder why they even come to this message board or bothered watching the draft. With their Nostrodamus like abilities they already knew we were going to pick Josh Allen tonight.... Edited April 27, 2018 by Inigo Montoya 1 1
Ol Dirty B Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Yeezus said: we just traded away a "really good athlete" to draft a less accurate "really good athlete" Beane is the most overrated GM in Bills history. dude traded so much top young talent and we end up picking a racist hillbilly But he's white...
Alphadawg7 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, bobobonators said: Lmao. Reading all these negative posts. Are all of you on medication? How is it possible to be this negative? Geeze fellas. hahahahaha for real man 17 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: People are so upset about the Josh Allen pick like they know with certainty that he will fail, as if they have a time machine and have already seen his entire career play out. This board is bordering on hysterics. Kurt Warner didn’t even get drafted and he’s in the Hall. Ryan Leaf #2 overall and was an epic fail. Tom Brady, sixth rounder, GOAT. Sam Bradford, #1 pick, highest paid player in NFL history, no rings, and at the end of the day a professional journeyman QB. But we're all supposed to believe that Allen is going to fail and there is no doubt about it. The pick is a disaster. He has no chance to be successful. Zero. Fit Josh Rosen for his golden jacket right now. Josh Allen will be selling life insurance in Tonawanda in five years. I’d appreciate if one of you people here who can see the future so clearly on this NFL fan message board would send me a private message, I’ve got some money to invest and I want to retire early. Of course, it makes you wonder why they even come to this message board or bothered watching the draft. With their Nostrodamus like abilities they already knew we were going to pick Josh Allen tonight.... hahaha, I really enjoyed this post, nice work.
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: People are so upset about the Josh Allen pick like they know with certainty that he will fail, as if they have a time machine and have already seen his entire career play out. This board is bordering on hysterics. Kurt Warner didn’t even get drafted and he’s in the Hall. Ryan Leaf #2 overall and was an epic fail. Tom Brady, sixth rounder, GOAT. Sam Bradford, #1 pick, highest paid player in NFL history, no rings, and at the end of the day a professional journeyman QB. But we're all supposed to believe that Allen is going to fail and there is no doubt about it. The pick is a disaster. He has no chance to be successful. Zero. Fit Josh Rosen for his golden jacket right now. Josh Allen will be selling life insurance in Tonawanda in five years. I’d appreciate if one of you people here who can see the future so clearly on this NFL fan message board would send me a private message, I’ve got some money to invest and I want to retire early. Of course, it makes you wonder why they even come to this message board or bothered watching the draft. With their Nostrodamus like abilities they already knew we were going to pick Josh Allen tonight.... And IMO, you're speaking in just as big absolutes as the folks who don't like the pick. No one knows with certainty. But probabilities and history show that players who have desireable traits, experience and abilities when they are picked--and don't have to be "fixed" or re-molded into something new--have had more success than those, such as Allen, who are just a big piece of clay. The NFL junk heap is littered with guy's who have potential. Very few coaching staffs have the ability/time to overcome player limitations, no matter how great of "teachers" they think they are...
BullBuchanan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: People are so upset about the Josh Allen pick like they know with certainty that he will fail, as if they have a time machine and have already seen his entire career play out. This board is bordering on hysterics. Kurt Warner didn’t even get drafted and he’s in the Hall. Ryan Leaf #2 overall and was an epic fail. Tom Brady, sixth rounder, GOAT. Sam Bradford, #1 pick, highest paid player in NFL history, no rings, and at the end of the day a professional journeyman QB. But we're all supposed to believe that Allen is going to fail and there is no doubt about it. The pick is a disaster. He has no chance to be successful. Zero. Fit Josh Rosen for his gold jacket right now. Josh Allen will be selling life insurance in Tonawanda in five years. I’d appreciate if one of you people here who can see the future so clearly on this NFL fan message board would send me a private message, I’ve got some money to invest and I want to retire early. Of course, it makes you wonder why they even come to this message board or bothered watching the draft. With their Nostrodamus like abilities they already knew we were going to pick Josh Allen tonight.... These types of posts are the most unnecessary and useless of all posts on messages anywhere. You're telling us to wait and see, it could be better than it appears on it's face. Enlightening. Sure it could be, but it probably won't. I'm not interested in waiting 3 years to talk about whether or not this was a bad move. If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant. It was a bad move TODAY. They shouldn't be given a pass if they get lucky and the kid doesn't suck. He sucked in college, badly. history suggests he'll suck in the pros. The Bills had countless chances over the last 2 drafts to grab far more accomplished prospects, and instead they sell the farm for a kid from a farm, that still belongs on a farm. Allen at 12 would have been bad enough, Allen + two high second round picks is inexcusable. It was true in 2008 and a decade later it's still true: http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
Inigo Montoya Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Lurker said: And IMO, you're speaking in just as big absolutes as the folks who don't like the pick. No one knows with certainty. But probabilities and history show that players who have desireable traits, experience and abilities when they are picked--and don't have to be "fixed" or re-molded into something new--have had more success than those, such as Allen, who are just a big piece of clay. The NFL junk heap is littered with guy's who have potential. Very few coaching staffs have the ability/time to overcome player limitations, no matter how great of "teachers" they think they are... I don't pretend to know if Allen will be successful or not. I wasn't an Allen guy before the draft. In some previous posts I stated that I don't follow college football closely enough or have the knowledge base to have an informed opinion on who the best QB prospect in this draft is. I said I would put my trust in McBeane, root for who ever they ended up drafting, and hope for the best. I have no idea if Allen will be a great QB for us or not. What I am absolutely certain of is that no one here knows that he won't be either. That's my point... Thanks for your civil reply, I know my point of view on this subject is not the prevailing one. Edited April 27, 2018 by Inigo Montoya
Mango Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Ayjent said: Anyone got the odds on that one? I'm going with break - all in. Actually I'd even say it will be this draft in general, because this was the restock the cupboard draft after jettisoning lots of pretty talented players. Sure you needed to get a QB, but giving away even more assets to move up again? Come on man. That's blowing your load before you even get started. It is the giving up assets for a “maybe” prospect in Allen, that is the issue. If Allen fails the entire fan base, and league will say “I told you so” And we will have dipleated the roster to do so. Allen has to turn out and show tons of promise in the next 3 years or the McBeane are toast. We cleared our entire scouting staff, LT, CB1, and gave away our DT1. This QB needed to hit. Most of us thought 5 years because of the playoffs. They get 2, MAYBE 3 more with this pick. They’d have been better off grabbing Rosen, him having a Bradford like career, retiring, and we move on. Allen HAS TO HIT
Fadingpain Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 2 hours ago, NewEraBills said: College Wentz = Championships and WON games; never mind his last season he only played 7 games. College Allen = No championships; struggled against Secondaries in his conference with no NFL talent, but it's his WR's fault. Plus low completion percentage. you can post all the numbers you want. I've watched the tape. Timing and anticipation is not there with him. With Wentz it was. I'm not going to even get into all of this. It's been discussed repeatedly. Allen is not the prospect that Wentz was and the comparisons really need to stop. Now that we are stuck with Allen I'll hope for the best, but I do not feel good about selecting him at all. Not to mention regularly missing really easy throws that you can't miss at the NFL level, or being totally confused by simplistic defensive schemes employed by less than NFL caliber players.
Lurker Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: I don't pretend to know if Allen will be successful or not. I wasn't an Allen guy before the draft. In some previous posts I stated that I don't follow college football closely enough or have the knowledge base to have an informed opinion on who the best QB prospect in this draft is. I said would put my trust in McBeane, root for who ever they ended up drafting, and hope for the best. I will do likewise. But I also like to do my own due dilligence and spent the past month watching as much video of these prospects as I could. Now, that's like saying I know physics like the late- Stephen Hawking because I read one of his books. But 50-years of watching and going to NFL games does give you some idea of what to look for--and I frankly don't see enough intangibles here (reading defenses, awareness of pre snap coverages, looking off safties, not staring down receivers, throwing guys open) to feel Allen's the guy. Beane and Company do. So into the breach I'll follow. But I'll be looking over my shoulder a lot for the accident waiting to happen... Edited April 27, 2018 by Lurker
Inigo Montoya Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: These types of posts are the most unnecessary and useless of all posts on messages anywhere. You're telling us to wait and see, it could be better than it appears on it's face. Enlightening. Sure it could be, but it probably won't. I'm not interested in waiting 3 years to talk about whether or not this was a bad move. If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant. It was a bad move TODAY. They shouldn't be given a pass if they get lucky and the kid doesn't suck. He sucked in college, badly. history suggests he'll suck in the pros. The Bills had countless chances over the last 2 drafts to grab far more accomplished prospects, and instead they sell the farm for a kid from a farm, that still belongs on a farm. Allen at 12 would have been bad enough, Allen + two high second round picks is inexcusable. It was true in 2008 and a decade later it's still true: http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135 I apologize if you find my post "useless" and "unnecessary". I admit, I did express a crazy opinion that maybe we should wait until Allen actually takes an NFL snap before we decide if he is a bust or not. I realize that I may not be as skilled at QB evaluation as other anonymous posters on a message board. I should have just sided with the majority here who have already declared him a bust. No doubt about it. It's a certainty. No chance for success. Wasted pick. Case closed. No dissent will be tolerated without labeling it as "useless" and "unnecessary". You might have noticed I never predicted Allen will be great or even good in my post. Just that I think those declaring him a bust might be a tad premature in their judgement. If you feel like you don't need to wait a year or two to see if an NFL draft pick is a bust or not, I would respectfully suggest, sir, that your posts are more "useless" and "unnecessary" than mine.
CaptnCoke11 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said: People are so upset about the Josh Allen pick like they know with certainty that he will fail, as if they have a time machine and have already seen his entire career play out. This board is bordering on hysterics. Kurt Warner didn’t even get drafted and he’s in the Hall. Ryan Leaf #2 overall and was an epic fail. Tom Brady, sixth rounder, GOAT. Sam Bradford, #1 pick, highest paid player in NFL history, no rings, and at the end of the day a professional journeyman QB. But we're all supposed to believe that Allen is going to fail and there is no doubt about it. The pick is a disaster. He has no chance to be successful. Zero. Fit Josh Rosen for his gold jacket right now. Josh Allen will be selling life insurance in Tonawanda in five years. I’d appreciate if one of you people here who can see the future so clearly on this NFL fan message board would send me a private message, I’ve got some money to invest and I want to retire early. Of course, it makes you wonder why they even come to this message board or bothered watching the draft. With their Nostrodamus like abilities they already knew we were going to pick Josh Allen tonight.... They obviously found a flux capacitor and went into the future. Lucky guys. 1
oldmanfan Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: These types of posts are the most unnecessary and useless of all posts on messages anywhere. You're telling us to wait and see, it could be better than it appears on it's face. Enlightening. Sure it could be, but it probably won't. I'm not interested in waiting 3 years to talk about whether or not this was a bad move. If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant. It was a bad move TODAY. They shouldn't be given a pass if they get lucky and the kid doesn't suck. He sucked in college, badly. history suggests he'll suck in the pros. The Bills had countless chances over the last 2 drafts to grab far more accomplished prospects, and instead they sell the farm for a kid from a farm, that still belongs on a farm. Allen at 12 would have been bad enough, Allen + two high second round picks is inexcusable. It was true in 2008 and a decade later it's still true: http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135 If it turns out to be a great pick 5 years from now, that's irrelevant. That is what you just wrote. Do you not understand what the draft is all about? I would have liked Rosen more, but that kind of critique is just silly.
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