So Bills fans want Eli Manning

[racketmaster]

11 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

In regards to their college numbers, Rosen would fall in the middle of Eli and Rodgers in terms of INTs per attempt. So, I fail to see how that makes him more "reckless."

I think if you watched enough of Rosen's games you would know there are plenty of WTF moments with him. Sometimes he gets away with it like the sure fire interception he threw up in the second Texas A&M game (ball ended up going right thru defenders hands and into a UCLA wr for a TD allowing the comeback to continue). There are clear similarities in the way Rosen plays to Eli's game. Again, Eli has been a pretty good qb so I am not bashing Rosen as a pick. Eli is also a little overrated (he plays for the Giants) and won 2 Supebowls. But there are a bunch of 7, 8 and 9 win seasons in his career. Plus, I am looking toward the future of where the NFL game is headed. Carson Wentz seems to be the future and my preference would be a little more escapability. That's why I will cross my fingers for Darnold. We would have to pay more now to get Darnold but he will require less help around him in the future. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by racketmaster

[DCOrange]

I’m hoping for better than a potentially injury prone Eli, but um, you could do a lot worse than being pretty certain you’re getting an above average starter.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

The best player comparison for Josh Rosen is Eli Manning. We are just talking on field play here. Pro ready, plug and play type player. He will throw for a bunch of yards and touchdowns. Rosen Will also get sacked a lot and throw a bunch of picks. If you build a solid offensive line and very good defense you can win, maybe even a Super Bowl with some luck. If you have holes, your team will win 6-7 games. 

 

If we get Rosen, we are not getting one the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Why? Mobility. He lacks mobility but still has a gunslinger mentality and he has a propensity to stick throws in dangerous areas or up for grabs when pressured. The NFL game has changed and mobility is important. A qb does not have to have Tyrod Taylor like mobility but a player with at least Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers is preferred. The ability to escape danger to make a play downfield is often needed. So, from a football perspective I have concerns about buying into a quarterback with limited mobility in a changing NFL. You may counter with, what about Brady. In order to think that will happen, i have to think that Rosen will develop into a precision passer who works the shorter routes. He would have to repress his gunslinger mentality, which is who Rosen is. This is unlikely to happen. 

 

And we have not talked about the possible character issues and more importantly the durability issues. Both of which Eli did not have and Rosen does. In the end, Rosen is a tough evaluation. His lack of mobility goes against a changing NFL game but he should still be pretty good like Eli, provided he stays healthy. 

 

I would not trade up for this type of player but I would take him if he fell to 12. Maybe move up to 10. Rosen, like Eli Manning, will not be able to carry a team and he will need as many good players around him to have success. We need those draft picks to turn into good players. 

 

 

 

No, the Bills badly need a QB in this draft, and some Bills fans want Josh Rosen, whom you analogize to Eli Manning like that's a bad thing.

Solid to good NFL QB who has played for his team for 14 years, led them to playoffs 6 times, and won 2 Superbowls - I would say that would be a Good Thing, if Rosen turns out like Manning.

 

Just what QB is available in this draft who you think is a better choice?  Because last I checked, Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees and Tom Brady were not on the draft board. 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Bobby Hooks]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, the Bills badly need a QB in this draft, and some Bills fans want Josh Rosen, whom you analogize to Eli Manning like that's a bad thing.

Solid to good NFL QB who has played for his team for 14 years, led them to playoffs 6 times, and won 2 Superbowls - I would say that would be a Good Thing, if Rosen turns out like Manning.

 

Just what QB is available in this draft who you think is a better choice?  Because last I checked, Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees and Tom Brady were not on the draft board.

 

 

 

He wants someone who’s mobile and has a great arm. You know because there’s so many of those out there. 

 

Not to mention if there was we have the 12th pick and couldn’t pick him anyway!

Edited April 26, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[peterpan]

53 minutes ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

Seen more comparisons to Matt Ryan.  Obviously comparisons don’t really matter but really haven’t seen any say Eli. Just saying, and I would take Matt Ryan

Yep, I see a better Matt Ryan.  Ceiling more like Tom Brady. 

 

I'd also be happy as hell with an Email Manning

[teef]

football!

[CajunBillsBacker]

Obviously a franchise QB is not the complete foundation of the team, but you can’t build the foundation without a franchise QB in place. Otherwise you’re just using bandaids to try and fix bullet holes.

 

Get the franchise QB, then build the foundation. Team building 101.

[racketmaster]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, the Bills badly need a QB in this draft, and some Bills fans want Josh Rosen, whom you analogize to Eli Manning like that's a bad thing.

Solid to good NFL QB who has played for his team for 14 years, led them to playoffs 6 times, and won 2 Superbowls - I would say that would be a Good Thing, if Rosen turns out like Manning.

 

Just what QB is available in this draft who you think is a better choice?  Because last I checked, Aaron Rodgers Drew Brees and Tom Brady were not on the draft board.

 

 

 

Darnold is my clear top choice. But as we know he is likely not a realistic option. There are things I like and dislike about Mayfield, Rosen and Allen. Out of that group, Rosen's play appears to be the most plug and play type. I just don't see much of a bust factor with him for his on the field play. So that is a good thing. 

 

So best player comps for Rosen are Eli and I also get the Matt Ryan comparison as well. Eli went #1 and Ryan #3. But both were squeaky clean off the field and neither had durability concerns. How much do those factors drop Rosen. They should create pause in teams looking for a quarterback, especially the durability issue. Those 2 issues might drop Rosen to 12 or at least in that vicinity.

 

My overall thinking is, let's not overreact if we can't land Darnold. Let's not trade the farm to #2 just to get Rosen. Be smart and patient and he will most likely fall near our pick. Then if the Bills believe in him, then they can strike without giving up much in terms of assets. I would be okay with that. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Ceiling: Matt Ryan

Floor: Eli Manning

 

So you're talking about either a Top 5 QB(at their peak) or a Top 10 QB(as the floor).

[racketmaster]

10 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

He wants someone who’s mobile and has a great arm. You know because there’s so many of those out there. 

 

Not to mention if there was we have the 12th pick and couldn’t pick him anyway!

Yes, my preference would be this type of player (Darnold). Because you are likely hitching your wagon to whatever qb the Bills draft for the next 10-15 years. It is a long time and if mobility in a quarterback beccomes even more important over time, 6-7 years from now we might look back with some regret or envy at other quarterbacks around the league. If Darnold can't be had, then I get it, secondary plans must be made and Rosen is definitely in that discussion. And we could certainly do worse than an Eli or a Ryan. But, I also caution the character (emotional maturity) and durability. This is what could submarine Rosen's career more than anything else. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

The best player comparison for Josh Rosen is Eli Manning. We are just talking on field play here. Pro ready, plug and play type player. He will throw for a bunch of yards and touchdowns. Rosen Will also get sacked a lot and throw a bunch of picks. If you build a solid offensive line and very good defense you can win, maybe even a Super Bowl with some luck. If you have holes, your team will win 6-7 games. 

 

If we get Rosen, we are not getting one the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Why? Mobility. He lacks mobility but still has a gunslinger mentality and he has a propensity to stick throws in dangerous areas or up for grabs when pressured. The NFL game has changed and mobility is important. A qb does not have to have Tyrod Taylor like mobility but a player with at least Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers is preferred. The ability to escape danger to make a play downfield is often needed. So, from a football perspective I have concerns about buying into a quarterback with limited mobility in a changing NFL. You may counter with, what about Brady. In order to think that will happen, i have to think that Rosen will develop into a precision passer who works the shorter routes. He would have to repress his gunslinger mentality, which is who Rosen is. This is unlikely to happen. 

 

And we have not talked about the possible character issues and more importantly the durability issues. Both of which Eli did not have and Rosen does. In the end, Rosen is a tough evaluation. His lack of mobility goes against a changing NFL game but he should still be pretty good like Eli, provided he stays healthy. 

 

I would not trade up for this type of player but I would take him if he fell to 12. Maybe move up to 10. Rosen, like Eli Manning, will not be able to carry a team and he will need as many good players around him to have success. We need those draft picks to turn into good players. 

 

 

Tom Brady, Nick Foles and Matt Ryan disagree on your mobility issues with QB's. What these QB's have is pocket awareness and the ability to make small moves inside the pocket to get you that extra 1.5 seconds to get a pass  off. I'll take pocket awareness over mobility every day.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

It’s an honest opinion. And I am comparing Rosen to Eli not Matt Ryan or Peyton. Rosen’s play is more reckless, like Eli. It is 4 tds and 3ints. It’s taking sacks because he is trying to hold onto the ball to make a play. 

 

I just get the sense that many fans think they are getting Aaron Rodgers with Rosen because they may have similar personalities. But Rosen is nothing like Rodgers as far as style of play. Eli has won 2 Superbowls, but he had a lot of help and some luck along the way. Duplicating that may be difficult. 

 

If Rosen was Eli as far as durability and character, I say go for it and trade up. But the added risk concerns me and I would be more cautious in trading up for him. 

 

Honest question: have you actually LOOKED at the sack and INT numbers for these NFL QB?  Because I don't think you have.

 

Manning has a career 3:2 INT ratio because he has had 3 seasons (out of 14) where he led the league in INTs, and the rest of the time his INTs and TD/INT ratio are much more reasonable - which would lead the astute fan to say "what went on in those 3 seasons?" 

 

Rodgers has had years where he has taken 46, 50, 51 sacks in a season and you got to admit where he won a Superbowl, he had both luck along the way (those Hail Marys!) and the #2 Defense in football.  So your analogy would seem a bit inept. 

 

Football is a team game.  A QB needs an OL and WR who can catch, Alert the Media.

[Homey D. Clown]

1 hour ago, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

Comparisons are stupid. But yes I’d love to have Eli Manning. Go back to bed and try again. You can do better than this 

 

No, this is as good as it gets.  

[racketmaster]

5 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

Ceiling: Matt Ryan

Floor: Eli Manning

 

So you're talking about either a Top 5 QB(at their peak) or a Top 10 QB(as the floor).

Again, you are talking about strictly on the field play. Rosen's very real emotional/maturity and durability concerns must be factored in as well. If he was squeaky clean and durable like Ryan and Eli, I don't think there would be much of an argument. But his best case scenario is Eli and that is if his mind does not wander away from the game and the concussions stop. 

[Epstein's Mother]

1 hour ago, racketmaster said:

The best player comparison for Josh Rosen is Eli Manning. We are just talking on field play here. Pro ready, plug and play type player. He will throw for a bunch of yards and touchdowns. Rosen Will also get sacked a lot and throw a bunch of picks. If you build a solid offensive line and very good defense you can win, maybe even a Super Bowl with some luck. If you have holes, your team will win 6-7 games. 

 

If we get Rosen, we are not getting one the best quarterbacks in the NFL. Why? Mobility. He lacks mobility but still has a gunslinger mentality and he has a propensity to stick throws in dangerous areas or up for grabs when pressured. The NFL game has changed and mobility is important. A qb does not have to have Tyrod Taylor like mobility but a player with at least Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers is preferred. The ability to escape danger to make a play downfield is often needed. So, from a football perspective I have concerns about buying into a quarterback with limited mobility in a changing NFL. You may counter with, what about Brady. In order to think that will happen, i have to think that Rosen will develop into a precision passer who works the shorter routes. He would have to repress his gunslinger mentality, which is who Rosen is. This is unlikely to happen. 

 

And we have not talked about the possible character issues and more importantly the durability issues. Both of which Eli did not have and Rosen does. In the end, Rosen is a tough evaluation. His lack of mobility goes against a changing NFL game but he should still be pretty good like Eli, provided he stays healthy. 

 

I would not trade up for this type of player but I would take him if he fell to 12. Maybe move up to 10. Rosen, like Eli Manning, will not be able to carry a team and he will need as many good players around him to have success. We need those draft picks to turn into good players. 

 

 

 

Where do I sign up?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Tom Brady, Nick Foles and Matt Ryan disagree on your mobility issues with QB's. What these QB's have is pocket awareness and the ability to make small moves inside the pocket to get you that extra 1.5 seconds to get a pass  off. I'll take pocket awareness over mobility every day.

 

And it may be a fair question to what extent Rosen has that "pocket awareness" which will let him evade the sack.

 

But for that matter, it's also a good question to what extent Tom Brady and certainly Nick Foles have it.  The Nick Foles knock in his previous starting stint was that you could pressure him and flush him from the pocket.  According to Pederson, they coached him up this year on that issue.   Tom Brady avoids pressure by always knowing where his outlet is, having a well-designed passing game to enable the quick release, and whining like a baby if he's hit 0.004 milliseconds after he throws.

 

The Teflon QBs in the league who can take half a step or duck and make guys miss, are Brees, Rodgers, and Ryan, probably in that order.

[racketmaster]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Honest question: have you actually LOOKED at the sack and INT numbers for these NFL QB?  Because I don't think you have.

 

Manning has a career 3:2 INT ratio because he has had 3 seasons (out of 14) where he led the league in INTs, and the rest of the time his INTs and TD/INT ratio are much more reasonable - which would lead the astute fan to say "what went on in those 3 seasons?" 

 

Rodgers has had years where he has taken 46, 50, 51 sacks in a season and you got to admit where he won a Superbowl, he had both luck along the way (those Hail Marys!) and the #2 Defense in football.  So your analogy would seem a bit inept. 

 

Football is a team game.  A QB needs an OL and WR who can catch, Alert the Media.

You make a good point about the sacks. But Tyrod took a lot of sacks as well. I think it is the style of play that Rodgers and Tyrod would give outside the pocket. There will be sacks, but they will also make a bunch of big time plays when extending plays (mostly pertains to Rodgers). You will get very little of that from Eli and Rosen. Once the pocket breaks down he must escape the tackle box to throw it away. Because if he takes any longer he will get sacked from behind. So yes, the sacks may be similar but the big plays from outside the pocket are not there to compensate. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, DFT said:

There’s some pretty heavy-handed and baseless opinions here, so I’ll just say I disagree with your entire perspective and move along.

 

Josh Rosen has more similarities to Peyton, than Eli.   The best comparison I’ve seen is a more pro-ready Matt Ryan.   But again...   whatevs.

so if your "just" going to move along why the bolded?

 

Don't worry though I am messing with ya

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, racketmaster said:

Again, you are talking about strictly on the field play. Rosen's very real emotional/maturity and durability concerns must be factored in as well. If he was squeaky clean and durable like Ryan and Eli, I don't think there would be much of an argument. But his best case scenario is Eli and that is if his mind does not wander away from the game and the concussions stop. 

 

So you also feel we should not draft Baker Mayfield (2 concussions in 3 games in 2016) or Josh Allen (Hx of 2 shoulder fractures, including a shatter fracture that required major reconstructive surgery and cost him a season and a soft tissue injury that cost him several games)?

 

 

[Wsam4031]

58 minutes ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Oh Eli needed help to play football? Weird. Most qbs play all of the positions themselves. 

 

And what do you think will happen when the Bills have 90 mil to spend in free agency next year? Pocket it? 

 

 

They Are gonna sign me 2 years 90 mil 6ft 2 250 lb 39 year old to play any position!