Regardless of what happens tomorrow

[Bill_with_it]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Im not arguing for giving him more time. But 1.25 years for a QB we were supposed to sit on the bench for a year or 2 is not how you develop a project QB

First lets not act like he wasnt on the tram for 4 years stinking up the otas, camp, and practices. He was. Secondly, everyone knew Manuel was going to start. Whaley was quoted as saying that there was a qb competition and the winner was going to start. Dont rewrite hostory acting as if EJ was supposed to sit.  That clearly isnt nor wasnt the truth. 

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

 

Im not arguing for giving him more time. But 1.25 years for a QB we were supposed to sit on the bench for a year or 2 is not how you develop a project QB

The Bills had a bad pass blocking OL last year,

 

Carson Wentz would very likely look awful in his rookie season on the 2018 Bills. We likely won't know for more than a year if this guy, whoever he might be, has a chance to be the guy we all want.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

First lets not act like he wasnt on the tram for 4 years stinking up the otas, camp, and practices. He was. Secondly, everyone knew Manuel was going to start. Whaley was quoted as saying that there was a qb competition and the winner was going to start. Dont rewrite hostory acting as if EJ was supposed to sit.  That clearly isnt nor wasnt the truth. 

 

Actual history says Kevin Kolb was supposed to start and be the bridge to EJ... he slipped on a mat then concussed in pre season and retired... EJ was then forced to start

 

He was always a project and Kolb was obviously supposed to start that year.

 

EJ wasn’t the answer but we didn’t develop him correctly either. 

 

We we need to give our new QB more than 16 games 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Buffalo716

[JimKellyTryouts]

I still don't understand why the media is inclined to think the Giants won't take a QB because Shurmur can coach 37 year old Eli, or why the Broncos don't seem interested in a QB because of signing Keenum.

 

In a worst case scenario where the top 3 QBs (not counting Allen) are all taken in the top 5 without being open to trade negotiations, we still need to be patient and trust the direction of this team with the guys in charge. We all know that this is a QB driven league. Beane stated the obvious himself, but even if we offer a fair value trade - and extra to compensate it actually happening - the other team has to say yes, too.

 

Yeah it would suck to not get a QB we crave, but if we can hold on to several of our picks, we will have one heck of a better team at the end of a day while we presumably address many of our holes - LB and OL first and foremost (but BPA never fails either). Sean and Brandon have sure my/our/the Pegulas' trust to get this right in both the short and long term.

 

Tl;dr: #TrustTheProcess

Edited April 26, 2018 by JimKellyTryouts

[Bill_with_it]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Actual history says Kevin Kolb was supposed to start and be the bridge to EJ... he slipped on a mat and retired... EJ was then forced to start

 

He was always a project and Kolb was obviously supposed to start that year.

 

EJ wasn’t the answer but we didn’t develop him correctly either. 

 

We we need to give our new QB more than 16 games 

Yikes:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/buffalo-bills-opinion/2013/8/17/4630478/buffalo-bills-qb-competition-ej-manuel-decisive-lead-kevin-kolb

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1741592-ej-manuels-knee-injury-opens-door-for-kevin-kolb-to-win-bills-starting-qb-job.amp.html

http://m.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Kolb-set-for-different-kind-of-QB-competition/a0a1ac38-6069-4014-bc92-cb3cb2cf82a5

 

And über yikes:

“We're excited to see [Manuel] grow, and we're excited to see him compete with Kevin Kolb," Whaley said. "May the best man win.”

http://www.espn.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9514038/buffalo-bills-ej-manuel-kevin-kolb-split-practice-snaps-qb

 

 

QUIT REWRITING HISTORY!

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Did he warrant more? Is there some conspiracy to disrupt his advancement? Did the Bills not due everything in their power to get him to succeed? Sometimes it is best to cut your losses and move on. I think we waited too long to cut bait with EJ.

He did not, but he also only got 1 year and 4 starts.  The point of this thread is to NOT give this next guy 1 year and 4 starts but more time and be patient with his development.  

[8-8 Forever?]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

And regardless of what QB we take ... let us all be patient with the rookie and not run him out of town after 1-2 years 

 

I was talking with my father earlier and he is a die hard fan like us all. Like some posters here, he has been with the Bills since day 1, 1960 and been with the team through all the ups and downs

 

The one thing he and I fear is that we will not be patient with our rookie QB and run him out of town. We have been stung time and time again and we are rabid as a fan base and want    Instant results . 

 

It is not a 1 year process with a rookie QB. There will be good plays and bad but we must be patient and support him unconditionally 

 

BILLIEVE 2018

trust the process

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, JimKellyTryouts said:

I still don't understand why the media is inclined to think the Giants won't take a QB because Shurmur can coach 37 year old Eli, or why the Broncos don't seem interested in a QB because of signing Keenum.

 

In a worst case scenario where the top 3 QBs (not counting Allen) are all taken in the top 5 without being open to trade negotiations, we still need to be patient and trust the direction of this team with the guys in charge. We all know that this is a QB driven league. Beane stated the obvious himself, but even if we offer a fair value trade - and extra to compensate it actually happening - the other team has to say yes, too.

 

Yeah it would suck to not get a QB we crave, but if we can hold on to several of our picks, we will have one heck of a better team at the end of a day while we presumably address many of our holes - LB and OL first and foremost (but BPA never fails either). Sean and Brandon have sure my/our/the Pegulas' trust to get this right in both the short and long term.

 

Tl;dr: #TrustTheProcess

Agreed.  Then not taking a Qb this year will hurt them dramatically long term imo.  If I’m gettleman I’m running to the podium and would’ve already traded Eli

Edited April 26, 2018 by NewEra

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

And regardless of what QB we take ... let us all be patient with the rookie and not run him out of town after 1-2 years 

 

I was talking with my father earlier and he is a die hard fan like us all. Like some posters here, he has been with the Bills since day 1, 1960 and been with the team through all the ups and downs

 

The one thing he and I fear is that we will not be patient with our rookie QB and run him out of town. We have been stung time and time again and we are rabid as a fan base and want    Instant results . 

 

It is not a 1 year process with a rookie QB. There will be good plays and bad but we must be patient and support him unconditionally 

 

BILLIEVE 2018

 

Beat me to it.

 

 

[Bill_with_it]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

He did not, but he also only got 1 year and 4 starts.  The point of this thread is to NOT give this next guy 1 year and 4 starts but more time and be patient with his development.  

Ej manuel started 10 games first season, 4 games second season, 2 games third season, and 1 game his last season with the bills. Multiple training camps and otas. Their was no shortages of chances for him, no one drove him off, he stayed with the team 4 years and couldnt get it done. If after 4 years the qb we draft cant get it done hopefully the gm doesnt double down on him ala Whaley.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Ej manuel started 10 games first season, 4 games second season, 2 games third season, and 1 game his last season with the bills. Multiple training camps and otas. Their was no shortages of chances for him, no one drove him off, he stayed with the team 4 years and couldnt get it done. If after 4 years the qb we draft cant get it done hopefully the gm doesnt double down on him ala Whaley.

If we draft Allen and he starts as many games as Ej and performs on the same level at Ej, would you be ok if we cut him?  I wouldn’t.  I wasn’t a big Ej guy but he was handled poorly.  The situation being thrust into starting as a rookie to the coaching staffs not believing in him to having an awful play caller,.  He needed a good situation and grooming to have any chance at success.  He got neither. And now he sucks.  I’m not saying he would’ve been a great player elsewhere, but he would’ve had a better chance 

[JimKellyTryouts]

EJ's best games were some of his earliest - he never got any better. I was more than willing to give him a shot with the new coaching staff after Marrone and Hackett dipped; Tyrod's injury opened the door for him to show what he could do, and he failed. Then during the "business decision" start, he played so horribly that Lynn actually let Cardale Jones get some playing time. 

 

Although he never should have been drafted as high as he was and no one thought he'd be an immediate contributor, his number was called due to injury. He never stepped up and/or showed signs of improvement. He only regressed, and I'm a little surprised Oakland wanted him back this year. 

[Bill_with_it]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If we draft Allen and he starts as many games as Ej and performs on the same level at Ej, would you be ok if we cut him?  I wouldn’t.  I wasn’t a big Ej guy but he was handled poorly.  The situation being thrust into starting as a rookie to the coaching staffs not believing in him to having an awful play caller,.  He needed a good situation and grooming to have any chance at success.  He got neither. And now he sucks.  I’m not saying he would’ve been a great player elsewhere, but he would’ve had a better chance 

Absolutely. If any qb we draft plays like Ej manuel hopefully hes gone prior to year 4, unlike Manuel. It doesnt take four years to know what you have. 

[FearLess Price]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Im not arguing for giving him more time. But 1.25 years for a QB we were supposed to sit on the bench for a year or 2 is not how you develop a project QB

 

 

Another reason not draft allen unless your forced to.

 

Rosen Darnold or Mayfield is the ticket.

[NewEra]

14 minutes ago, Bill_with_it said:

Absolutely. If any qb we draft plays like Ej manuel hopefully hes gone prior to year 4, unlike Manuel. It doesnt take four years to know what you have. 

Sometimes it does take four years.  Case Keenum played pretty good last year.  Nick foles may have taken a jump.  Took rich gannon more than 4. Troy aikman didn’t become good until year 4. Drew Brees, year 4.  Dallas kept aikman, but the other guys were all given up on.  And that just off the top of my head.  

[longtimebillsfan]

Any quarterback we take will require some time to play at an elite level.

 

If we want a quarterback from this class, we need to show patience.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Bill_with_it said:

Did he warrant more? Is there some conspiracy to disrupt his advancement? Did the Bills not due everything in their power to get him to succeed? Sometimes it is best to cut your losses and move on. I think we waited too long to cut bait with EJ.

Thats a ridiculous example of buffalo’s hot pocket mentality.

[longtimebillsfan]

How did this turn into an EJ post?

[maryland-bills-fan]

Gee,  somehow people can instantly know that some 20 year old kid is the next sure franchise thing, even if he is playing at a low level program.  But it takes 3-4 years to figure out he isn't going to make it in the pro's, even when he is playing in the pros.

 

Let's think about some of those, sit-on-the-bench-for 3 years fellows.  If they were sitting on the bench for 3 years, I think that suggests that they were on a pretty successful team.  The guy ahead of him at QB was doing well,,,,, gee that might mean that the supporting team was pretty good, and for 3 years they ALSO didn't have to waste a bundle of high draft picks on a QB prospect, because the prospect was on the bench?

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

How did this turn into an EJ post?

It shouldn't have, but Allen reminds people of EJ because both were big, strong, throw-it-thu-a-brick wall guys.  EJ played in a very simple system with a good supporting cast, but never could make the step up because he couldn't process information fast enough and choked on very simple pass patterns.   Allen played a simple system at a community college and then low level of competition, and may not be able to make that same step up.

Edited April 26, 2018 by maryland-bills-fan

[YoloinOhio]

I’m going to be completely honest and say that if they draft Allen, I will still support the team and hope for his success (obviously) but I’ll be very pessimistic about pretty much everything and it will take awhile for me to get over it. Sorry, it’s just the truth here.