Why the Giants should steer clear of Barkley - compelling

[dave mcbride]

I found this pretty convincing, unfortunately. Hopefully the Giants aren't reading this: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23297367/2018-nfl-draft-new-york-giants-really-take-saquon-barkley-second-overall-pick

[Rico]

He went to Penn State, that’s all the convincing I need. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I found this pretty convincing, unfortunately. Hopefully the Giants aren't reading this: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23297367/2018-nfl-draft-new-york-giants-really-take-saquon-barkley-second-overall-pick

 

Greenberg's video clip 100% spot on, and why the "fill holes" crowd is not only wrong, but stupid.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I would really be bothered if the Bills had a 37 year old QB and were considering taking a RB instead of an heir to that QB.

 

As the article states.........it's not just one reason.......there are huge issues with cap hits etc.. that just don't make sense.

 

But I particularly am not a big Barkley fan.     I felt positive that Zeke Elliott was going to be a stud.    He was a beast against everybody.    Barkley always appeared much less quick and fast when he played defenses that had speed.   That's just a less instinctive runner IMO.     I knew he would blow away the combine because we were told so many times........but in live game situations I didn't see that.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

He went to Penn State, that’s all the convincing I need. 

Tell that to Lydell Mitchell,  Lenny Moore, Franco Harris, Curt Warner, and Larry Johnson. Even John Cappelleti was a pretty good player. The myth that PSU RBs are bad is even more fallacious than the one about USC QBs. Their record historically is pretty great, relatively speaking, and even accounting for Blair Thomas/Ki-jana Carter/Curtis Enis. 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

Greenberg's video clip 100% spot on, and why the "fill holes" crowd is not only wrong, but stupid.

 

 

Agreed.

So is the article from barnwell that the link is about, but as usual, ESPN imbeds a video that isn't by the article author (though they do give the same conclusion)

 

I actually almost posted this link, then I saw the thread

 

My favorite snippet from the article:

 

"Le'Veon Bell will end up resetting the running back market next offseason, but it probably would take an MVP-caliber season for the Steelers star to get something in excess of $15 million per year. That's what Mike Glennon got from the Bears in free agency last offseason. No veteran starting quarterback on a multiyear deal will have a lower average annual salary than Bell, and he might be the only running back in football making more than $8 million per season."

 

As myself, and many others have been saying for a while, an "average-at-best" QB is worth as much or more than a MVP caliber RB .

That's why people will reach for QBs in the draft and FA.

[K D]

I didn't watch it but Barkley is going to be very good. He has balance. His legs are like tree trunks and he is stupid strong. Not a lot of players show his mix of balance, explosiveness, speed, agility, pass catching, and run blocking ability. He's the total package. Is he worth the #2 pick? Maybe if you are desperate for a running game he is. I just don't think RB's are worth that much in today's NFL but if you are going to do it then you do it with an every down back that can also catch and pass block

[RochesterRob]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I would really be bothered if the Bills had a 37 year old QB and were considering taking a RB instead of an heir to that QB.

 

As the article states.........it's not just one reason.......there are huge issues with cap hits etc.. that just don't make sense.

 

But I particularly am not a big Barkley fan.     I felt positive that Zeke Elliott was going to be a stud.    He was a beast against everybody.    Barkley always appeared much less quick and fast when he played defenses that had speed.   That's just a less instinctive runner IMO.     I knew he would blow away the combine because we were told so many times........but in live game situations I didn't see that.

 

 

  I'm pretty confident the Giants will get Eli's successor with the second overall pick.  Even if Eli was just a few years younger I could see the Giants going with a non-QB thus opening the door to a trade.  The grades on the QB's don't warrant taking them ahead of Chubb or Nelson but you have three teams at the top of the draft order who have QB issues at present or will have in a year or two.  I still think the Bills are blocked out from the top 4 with Denver taking a QB and moving Lynch during the draft.

Edited April 25, 2018 by RochesterRob

[Mr. WEO]

He could have just lead with the most obvious of his obvious conclusions:  Manning is in decline and this is the best opportunity to draft his imminent replacement they will have.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He could have just lead with the most obvious of his obvious conclusions:  Manning is in decline and this is the best opportunity to draft his imminent replacement they will have.

He could have, but that would have been boring. The cap/salary information was fascinating and revealing. 

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Tell that to Lydell Mitchell,  Lenny Moore, Franco Harris, Curt Warner, and Larry Johnson. Even John Cappelleti was a pretty good player. The myth that PSU RBs are bad is even more fallacious than the one about USC QBs. Their record historically is pretty great, relatively speaking, and even accounting for Blair Thomas/Ki-jana Carter/Curtis Enis. 

It’s not just Penn State RBs, it’s Penn State anything. I wouldn’t burn a high draft pick on a LB from there either anymore, too many potential character issues. 

[GG]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I found this pretty convincing, unfortunately. Hopefully the Giants aren't reading this: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23297367/2018-nfl-draft-new-york-giants-really-take-saquon-barkley-second-overall-pick

 

It's all in how you frame the question.

 

Would you trade the #2 draft pick for 4 draft picks, including #12 & #22

 

or

 

Would you trade 4 draft picks, including #12 & #22 for Barkley, Chubb or Nelson?

 

Giants would be stupid if they take one of those options.

[Happy]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

He could have just lead with the most obvious of his obvious conclusions:  Manning is in decline and this is the best opportunity to draft his imminent replacement they will have.

 

Exactly.  If Gettleman does draft Barkley with the #2 pick, I'd seriously consider firing him if I was the Mara's.

[SouthNYfan]

6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Tell that to Lydell Mitchell,  Lenny Moore, Franco Harris, Curt Warner, and Larry Johnson. Even John Cappelleti was a pretty good player. The myth that PSU RBs are bad is even more fallacious than the one about USC QBs. Their record historically is pretty great, relatively speaking, and even accounting for Blair Thomas/Ki-jana Carter/Curtis Enis. 

 

Carter is a tough one.

The dude tore a knee ligament on the third carry of preseason and never fully recovered.

He looked terrible after the injury.

Basically the Derrick Rose of football... Although Rose actually got to play in the NBA before the injury

(I guess Carter was first, so Rose would be the Carter of the NBA technically lol)

 

The rest I agree with you.

 

6 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

I didn't watch it but Barkley is going to be very good. He has balance. His legs are like tree trunks and he is stupid strong. Not a lot of players show his mix of balance, explosiveness, speed, agility, pass catching, and run blocking ability. He's the total package. Is he worth the #2 pick? Maybe if you are desperate for a running game he is. I just don't think RB's are worth that much in today's NFL but if you are going to do it then you do it with an every down back that can also catch and pass block

 

That's pretty much what the article and video say.

An average QB is worth what an MVP RB brings, and with the rookie wage scale, a #2 RB will be making top 3 RB salary in the NFL before playing a down, vs the QB making like 30-50% the going QB rate, so the value just isn't there for taking a RB high, both in terms of salary cap hit and on field impact.

[Coach Tuesday]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I would really be bothered if the Bills had a 37 year old QB and were considering taking a RB instead of an heir to that QB.

 

As the article states.........it's not just one reason.......there are huge issues with cap hits etc.. that just don't make sense.

 

But I particularly am not a big Barkley fan.     I felt positive that Zeke Elliott was going to be a stud.    He was a beast against everybody.    Barkley always appeared much less quick and fast when he played defenses that had speed.   That's just a less instinctive runner IMO.     I knew he would blow away the combine because we were told so many times........but in live game situations I didn't see that.

 

 

 

This is my view.  He has elite measurables - he does not play at an elite level.  He runs soft and his vision is suspect.  It would be a tremendous waste of draft resources to pick him at 2 when you factor in the opportunity cost of passing on the Bills’ trade package.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Carter is a tough one.

The dude tore a knee ligament on the third carry of preseason and never fully recovered.

He looked terrible after the injury.

Basically the Derrick Rose of football... Although Rose actually got to play in the NBA before the injury

(I guess Carter was first, so Rose would be the Carter of the NBA technically lol)

 

The rest I agree with you.

 

 

That's pretty much what the article and video say.

An average QB is worth what an MVP RB brings, and with the rookie wage scale, a #2 RB will be making top 3 RB salary in the NFL before playing a down, vs the QB making like 30-50% the going QB rate, so the value just isn't there for taking a RB high, both in terms of salary cap hit and on field impact.

Agreed about Carter; he wasn't really a bust. He suffered a bad injury. Big difference.

[BuffaloRush]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Tell that to Lydell Mitchell,  Lenny Moore, Franco Harris, Curt Warner, and Larry Johnson. Even John Cappelleti was a pretty good player. The myth that PSU RBs are bad is even more fallacious than the one about USC QBs. Their record historically is pretty great, relatively speaking, and even accounting for Blair Thomas/Ki-jana Carter/Curtis Enis. 

 

Kurt Warner did not go to Penn state

[Jay_Fixit]

It doesn’t even need to be this difficult.

 

 “Why you should never take a RB in the first round.”

 

Because you shouldn’t.

 

Simple.

 

[first_and_ten]

It's also a deep running back class

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I'm pretty confident the Giants will get Eli's successor with the second overall pick.  Even if Eli was just a few years younger I could see the Giants going with a non-QB thus opening the door to a trade.  The grades on the QB's don't warrant taking them ahead of Chubb or Nelson but you have three teams at the top of the draft order who have QB issues at present or will have in a year or two.  I still think the Bills are blocked out from the top 4 with Denver taking a QB and moving Lynch during the draft.

 

 

I actually think Gettelman is that dumb though.    I don't think much of him as a GM.  Eli has never been 100% football like Peyton......he's in better shape physically but this is a guy who has not been very good in recent years.   This should be a no-brainer decision for them to take a QB and if Darnold is the only one he'd draft over a RB then that's just not very smart IMO.

 

  Worst case for Bills I would take Lamar Jackson and see where that adventure takes us.