JoPar_v2 Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 Nooooope. A 12 on a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect reeks of a Losman-esque reach. Would rather take BPA (non-qb) and call it a night.
maryland-bills-fan Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: If I'm running things I'm taking Lamar over Rudolph at 12. I'm not considering Rudolph until pick 22. Willing to trade up for (in order of preference): Darnold Mayfield Rosen Taking at 12 (in order): Jackson Allen Considering at 22: Rudolph When thinking of Rudolph all I can think of is Zach Mettenberger. Decent arm, huge stats throwing to 2 top level college WRs (Jarvis Landry and OBJ for Mettenberger) who made him look a lot better than he actually was. A few comments. Did Rudolph make his wide receivers look good, or was it the other way around, or was it both? ..... I don't think Rudolph will make it to #22. The Cards, the Ravens, the Steelers and even New England are all candidates to move up and take him. 29 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Yep this. People make such a big deal about completion percentage and numbers and crap like that and want to draft a career backup at 12. Honestly, if a person cannot see the upside of Allen and see the limitations of Rudolph, I don't know what to say. This is about as obvious as it gets and people need to understand that the draft is about upside projection and having a guy who can make NFL throws consistently. That is not Rudolph. He is a third round pick. He is no better than Aj McCarron or Nathan Peterman, in fact I think both have more upside. Therefore, why bother? I may spontaneously combust if we draft him in the first round. If you want to take him in the third to add depth to the position, cool. But taking him in the first, let alone 12, is utter insanity. Fans are projecting something with Rudolph that simply isn't there. They are hopeful that we can get him without trading up and he will somehow be the answer. He simply is not the answer. I also love the narrative that Allen was surrounded by all of this NFL talent in 2016 and still had some accuracy issues. Who are these guys? Brian Hill, a running back drafted by the Falcons who got cut, wound up on the Bengals practice squad and had like 30 yards rushing. Chase Roullier, a sixth round center who may start for the Redskins this year. Jacob Hollister an UDFA of the Patriots who was their 3rd-4th tight end. Tanner Gentry, an UDFA receiver who was on the Bears practice squad. The bottom line is that this guy played with nobody. I'm all in on Rosen, but anyone who denies the tremendous upside of Allen really has no clue what they are talking about. .....but who did they play against? Allen did smoke Gardner-Webb last year 27-0. What Allen hasn't done is played against top college players for 3-4 years and succeed. He did okay his first two years at college at Reedley Community College. Remember EJ.
Stank_Nasty Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 while I would be disappointed if we didn't nab Mayfield, darnold or rosen. i'm fairly certain I can talk myself into be okay with any of the top 6 guys. pro's and cons to any of those situations. so while i'd be fairly irritated, the fan in me could convince myself to fall in love with any of them by summer time.
sleeby Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 3 hours ago, GreggTX said: Of course we'd be upset if we don't get a top 4 QB, but even more so if we take him a round or 2 ahead of where he's projected and wasting a pick that we paid so much for. Throw in the fact that none of the 2019 QB's look very good and I don't see how Beane and McD keep their jobs beyond 2019. I'd just get a guy like Lauletta in the 4th or 5th as an emergency option. So you would essentially advocate for firing them for ending the playoff streak? Cause that's why we landed at 21.
Mark80 Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said: A few comments. Did Rudolph make his wide receivers look good, or was it the other way around, or was it both? ..... I don't think Rudolph will make it to #22. The Cards, the Ravens, the Steelers and even New England are all candidates to move up and take him. In the OSU games that I watched during the season I would say it was the WRs making him look good. I would put money him falling into the 2nd round over a team trading up for him any day of the week. 1
BuffaloRush Posted April 25, 2018 Author Posted April 25, 2018 I am almost convinced that Rudolph will be the pick
MrEpsYtown Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 1 hour ago, maryland-bills-fan said: .....but who did they play against? Allen did smoke Gardner-Webb last year 27-0. What Allen hasn't done is played against top college players for 3-4 years and succeed. He did okay his first two years at college at Reedley Community College. Remember EJ. EJ played with some real talent. He was over drafted and was not given a chance to develop. Physically they have some similarities, but EJ's situation is much more like Rudolph, a guy who played with really good players, who made him look good, who gets over drafted. To me it is hard to watch Allen film, because the guys he played with and the guys he played against all kind of sucked. Playing quarterback in that scenario is really just difficult. I think if you swapped Allen and Rudolph, Allen would have broke a bunch of NCAA records, and Rudolph would be working at Wal- Mart next year.
Bray Wyatt Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 4 hours ago, billsredneck1 said: the bills didn't trade cordy to move up. it was the compensation vs. a pick. also, they may end up having to trade spots with oakland just to get rudolph. i personally don't get the knocks on him. his body of work is second to no one except mayfield. i've said it before, i think he can have a peyton manning type of career. Im usually not a guy that likes to call posts dumb, but this is just stupid. Of course they traded to move up! It not like that was the only compensation out there possible for Glenn. If they wanted a 2nd rd pick (which is the equivalent of the trade up so using it as an example) then they would have tried to trade for that. They chose the trade up route because they wanted to move up.
Putin Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Nooooope. A 12 on a late 2nd-early 3rd prospect reeks of a Losman-esque reach. Would rather take BPA (non-qb) and call it a night. BPA and call it a season SMH
OldTimer1960 Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: Yep this. People make such a big deal about completion percentage and numbers and crap like that and want to draft a career backup at 12. Honestly, if a person cannot see the upside of Allen and see the limitations of Rudolph, I don't know what to say. This is about as obvious as it gets and people need to understand that the draft is about upside projection and having a guy who can make NFL throws consistently. That is not Rudolph. He is a third round pick. He is no better than Aj McCarron or Nathan Peterman, in fact I think both have more upside. Therefore, why bother? I may spontaneously combust if we draft him in the first round. If you want to take him in the third to add depth to the position, cool. But taking him in the first, let alone 12, is utter insanity. Fans are projecting something with Rudolph that simply isn't there. They are hopeful that we can get him without trading up and he will somehow be the answer. He simply is not the answer. I also love the narrative that Allen was surrounded by all of this NFL talent in 2016 and still had some accuracy issues. Who are these guys? Brian Hill, a running back drafted by the Falcons who got cut, wound up on the Bengals practice squad and had like 30 yards rushing. Chase Roullier, a sixth round center who may start for the Redskins this year. Jacob Hollister an UDFA of the Patriots who was their 3rd-4th tight end. Tanner Gentry, an UDFA receiver who was on the Bears practice squad. The bottom line is that this guy played with nobody. I'm all in on Rosen, but anyone who denies the tremendous upside of Allen really has no clue what they are talking about. I agree that Allen clearly has more physical talent than Rudolph. I also agree that Rudolph is a bit of a lumbering athlete. It is hard for me to see on the videos that I have access to that Rudolph's arm is as weak as some say. I am surely no scout and there are definitely several reports that scouts view Rudolph's arm as substandard, so you may very well be right.
PIZ Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) I was really thinking Rudolph was the guy, until I read this Tom Pelissero take on nfl.com: Quote Could he get pushed up into the first round? Sure, it only takes one team to do it. Some say they'd take Rudolph over Jackson. But I have a hard time projecting Rudolph to go too high, considering how many coaches and scouts have told me they have him graded as a backup. "He's big (6-5, 235). He's got good size. He's done some good things," an AFC coach said. "There's an element of arm strength that's a little frustrating with him. He can throw it deep, but intermediate arm strength -- when he has to put a lot of zip on it -- he sometimes struggles there. He might be the guy who's close to already being what he's going to be, and then, how good is it? Does he ever get to be more than a bottom-end No. 1?" Rudolph put up impressive numbers (92 career touchdowns at Oklahoma State) and has more starting experience than any of the top QBs in the draft besides Mayfield. But everyone who has watched the tape remarks about how often he's throwing to wide-open receivers in the Cowboys' remedial offense. Rudolph's athletic ability is another issue. One quarterbacks coach described Rudolph as "really heavy-footed." His football IQ and intangibles draw mixed reviews, too. Several people who interviewed Rudolph told me they found it hard to warm up to him as a personality and a leader. "I wouldn't touch him until like the fourth round," an AFC scout said. "He's just got a long way to go." Edited April 25, 2018 by PIZ
OldTimer1960 Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 55 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: EJ played with some real talent. He was over drafted and was not given a chance to develop. Physically they have some similarities, but EJ's situation is much more like Rudolph, a guy who played with really good players, who made him look good, who gets over drafted. To me it is hard to watch Allen film, because the guys he played with and the guys he played against all kind of sucked. Playing quarterback in that scenario is really just difficult. I think if you swapped Allen and Rudolph, Allen would have broke a bunch of NCAA records, and Rudolph would be working at Wal- Mart next year. I absolutely agree that you almost cannot judge Allen from college tape as his team was so severely out-talented by most competition. The most meaningless points I've heard are about his performance against Power 5 conference teams. Well, of course he is under great pressure and none of his receivers can get open against the superior athletes. He couldn't look good in those situations at all. Still, he does have accuracy problems. Question is, can they be fixed if he has better protection and some decent receivers? I kind of think he could end up on about the same level as Cam Newton - or he could be another Derek Anderson.
MrEpsYtown Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 Just now, OldTimer1960 said: I absolutely agree that you almost cannot judge Allen from college tape as his team was so severely out-talented by most competition. The most meaningless points I've heard are about his performance against Power 5 conference teams. Well, of course he is under great pressure and none of his receivers can get open against the superior athletes. He couldn't look good in those situations at all. Still, he does have accuracy problems. Question is, can they be fixed if he has better protection and some decent receivers? I kind of think he could end up on about the same level as Cam Newton - or he could be another Derek Anderson. Agreed. I think it's a risk reward proposition. I'm taking a shot on a possible Cam, not some guy who could be Drew Stanton. I think his his issues are fixable and I thought of this when Beane said that all of these guys are flawed, that you have to decide what you are willing to deal with. I think they think they can coach him up.
JoPar_v2 Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Putin said: BPA and call it a season SMH Not what I meant - I wasn’t clear. Take the best player at 12 in that case and move forward with the rest of the draft.
RochesterRob Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 5 hours ago, GreggTX said: Of course we'd be upset if we don't get a top 4 QB, but even more so if we take him a round or 2 ahead of where he's projected and wasting a pick that we paid so much for. Throw in the fact that none of the 2019 QB's look very good and I don't see how Beane and McD keep their jobs beyond 2019. I'd just get a guy like Lauletta in the 4th or 5th as an emergency option. Assuming that a move up for QB fails to occur using the 12th overall to get Roquan Smith would not be a waste in my mind.
oldmanfan Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 The people saying he's from a spread, single read offense as a negative. Isn't that what Mahomes came out of at TT? Yet people salivated over him last year.
MarlinTheMagician Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 If The Process likes him I am cool with it.
Spielman Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 I have a feeling that Rudolph will end up being the best QB from this draft. He has the size, accuracy, good arm strength and most importantly, is very bright. I was watching him with Mariucci on the white board and I thought he was very impressive. 34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The people saying he's from a spread, single read offense as a negative. Isn't that what Mahomes came out of at TT? Yet people salivated over him last year. Yes, he was from a spread. either you're good or you're not..too much emphasis on systems. Heck, look at Warren Moon....the run n' shoot made him look better than hew was...yeah, right.
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