Foxx Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: We obviously did this to score points so when Allen puts up 24 plus ppg two seasons in a row I'll call the whole thing a success. That seems fair enough. I've even hoping he does. I'm just being honest saying that there is a huge risk involved. I think that is also fair. i think perhaps you are confusing ppg and qb production. sure there is a corellation but you simply cannot say that Tyrod was the reason we scored 24 ppg. ranking 28th in the most qb centric stat there is, is more indicative of what you have there. not to mention just simply watching him and pleading with him to just throw the damn football. thank goodness those days are now someone else's problem. i don't know that i would say there is a huge risk involved. the greater risk imo, is the dreaded medocrity that we have lived the last 17 years. swing at the pitch. Edited April 29, 2018 by Foxx
Albwan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 we should impeach allen change all the rules and make cleveland give him back to us What do you say gais LETS DO IT!!!
buffaloaggie Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Just now, Maine-iac said: No and neither do you. Statistically he faced worse down and distance than most QB's and still produced. That is a fact. I'm not arguing about this all day. It's water under the bridge. I'm also not drinking the kool aid. We brought a new guy in who's been labeled by pro scouts a big armed project and he's being teamed up with a decimated OL and an OC with a less than stellar track record. It's not hard to imagine things going bad. Saw it all the time. That's most fan's biggest frustration with Taylor, along with taking sacks. The subject of this discussion is Tyrod Taylor supposedly turning heads. Not Allen and our O-Line. Tyrod can get a team so far, but if a team needs to win based on his passing ability, that team will likely come up on the short end. Does anyone have stats on how many times we ran for a first down vs passing for it? All I know is I watched plenty of Receivers not getting hit in stride and losing a chance to get the first because of it.
Maine-iac Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 What makes this different than all the other "rebuildings"? Someone answer that question. Is hope all we've got? Am I wrong because I don't "trust" the process anymore. The Jaguars made the playoffs last year with good defense and Bortles. They continue to try to find better pass catchers and make the defense better. Who do you think will have more success over the next 3 to 5 seasons? That isn't a statement of me saying the Jaquars will but an honest question. We are playing the long game, really long.
Maine-iac Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 11 minutes ago, buffaloaggie said: Saw it all the time. That's most fan's biggest frustration with Taylor, along with taking sacks. The subject of this discussion is Tyrod Taylor supposedly turning heads. Not Allen and our O-Line. Tyrod can get a team so far, but if a team needs to win based on his passing ability, that team will likely come up on the short end. Does anyone have stats on how many times we ran for a first down vs passing for it? All I know is I watched plenty of Receivers not getting hit in stride and losing a chance to get the first because of it. There are stats, I'm not dragging it all up again, but yes statisticaly Taylor was good at producing first downs especially given the down and distances he faced. We've moved on but I think all the moves on offense making the statement that we are better is at best an opinion and a hope. I am, with Taylor or without, a believer in build the defense first and run the football. I think adding Allen to when we had Orton and had just drafted Watkins would have been great (if we had kept our coaching staff). Having completely ripped the offense apart the notion of putting it back together seems too far away. I'm not lobbing the notion that I'm a crappy fan on myself for feeling annoyed at waiting possibly years to see the playoffs again. I hope they nailed it and everything works but I don't feel bad about being skeptical.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 I fully expect Tyrod to have success in Cleveland. He has weapons and is 1,000,000,000x better than anyone that they’ve run out there since they came back into the league. I would expect Baker to take the reigns at some point though. While Tyrod is better today than anyone on our roster today te Bills are trying to go forward. They have reached decent. Now they want to get to good. The Browns are trying to reach decent. It’s just a different situation. Allen will dictate whether or not the team goes forward or back. I don’t expect Allen to have Andy Dalton’s career. He’s going to be a star or a bust IMO. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 I'm not sure AJ McCarron is better than Taylor in ANY regard.......TT got the ball to playmakers....the complaint with him was basically the sin of not throwing the ball to Brandon Tate when he was open on the all-22's........but yes he'd definitely be a better option than McCarron with what looks to be an even further depleted offensive group than last year. I mean they are older or worse on paper at OL, RB, TE.......even WR somehow. Who'd have thought that they would do WORSE than Deonte Thompson........it's bad-knee-KB and then Dropzone and then who? I know they have lot's of cap room in 2019 but at WR they needed to be more pro-active IMO.........I mean heck KB might end up being the top FA WR next year........it's not a great looking group.
BillsFan4 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Just now, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. Why do you say Maccarron is much more turnover prone? In his 133 attempts in the NFL, he has thrown 2 interceptions. Before Tyrod got here, in his 4 years in Baltimore he had 35 total,pass attempts and threw 2 interceptions. Looking at college stats - https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tyrod-taylor-1.html Tyrod had 3, 7, 5 and 5 interceptions in his 4 years. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/aj-mccarron-1.html Maccarron threw 0, 5, 3 and 7 in his 4 year college career.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 First off nobody holds the ball like Taylor. Second, you know a healthy Benjamin is a big addition to what they had last year. With a qb that will throw the ball on time and to a spot Benjamin will be a good weapon, add Shady , and clay and the while it is not and elite group I, it is top heavy and they won with less last season
RussellDopeland Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Tyrod was the starter here for 3 years. He had 1....ONE...300 yard passing game to his credit during that stretch. Tom Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger- they have surpassed 300 yards in only one HALF of football from time to time. Taylor wasn't lacking for weapons, either: Watkins, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Chris Hogan, Kelvin Benjamin, Jordan Mathews, Charles Clay- even Shady McCoy and Dimarco are solid receivers. These skill players have proven with other QBs how effective they can be in this league as receivers. Tyrod is just not starting-caliber in the league as it's presently constituted- 134 yards on 37 attempts in the playoffs is embarrassingly bad. Sorry...he's a likable guy, runs well, doesn't turn it over, etc.. But he'll never take you beyond where we went with him here...8-8, 7-9, 9-7 at best.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 I was never a big Tyrod guy but he is the better qb of anyone on the Bills roster. Still, it was time to move on and it was pretty lucky to get a 3rd for him. I just wish we drafted a different guy.
Rob's House Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think that 25/15 TD/Int for 15 years number is quite reflective of why these guys are in the HOF**. For example, Troy Aikman isn't in the HOF because he threw 165 TD and 141 INT in his 12 year career. He's there because of the years he threw 16 TD to 7 INT and won Superbowls. His INT numbers are raised by his 3 initial seasons when he was learning the game, and his final season before he retired, and poor seasons in between in which his team won on D or struggled. Yes, where and when an INT is thrown does affect its impact on the game's outcome, but I don't think it can really be argued INTs don't mean a whole lot. Turnover ratio is pretty well established as one of the key factors linked to game outcome. (**note also many of the so-called "modern era" QB in the HOF played before the league evolved into the pass-centric game it is today - Otto Graham, Sonny Jurgensen, Bobby Layne, YA Tittle Norm Van Brocklin etc - their stats may not reflect today's needs) I sometimes wonder how much of that is cause and how much is effect. Teams that are down late tend to take more chances and throw more passes which increase the risk of turnovers. As far as not all turnovers being equal, a 40 yd bomb that gets picked off is really no worse than a punt. A pick 6 or fumble near the LOS can be a game changer. Personally, I like a QB who'd rather risk the int on a deep ball and give you a chance at a big play than the guy who checks down on 3rd and long to protect his stat sheet. Edited April 29, 2018 by Rob's House
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob's House said: I sometimes wonder how much of that is cause and how much is effect. Teams that are down late tend to take more chances and throw more passes which increase the risk of turnovers. As far as not all turnovers being equal, a 40 yd bomb that gets picked off is really no worse than a punt. A pick 6 or fumble near the LOS can be a game changer. Personally, I like a QB who'd rather risk the int on a deep ball and give you a chance at a big play than the guy who checks down on 3rd and long to protect his stat sheet. On that last, oh sure. We all got way tired of Trentative, and while I dont think Tyrod was protecting his stat sheet the end result is the same. But remember "Pickspatrick"? We all got tired of him, too. On the 40 yd bomb that gets picked off no worse than a punt (I presume you mean on 3rd down) - What was your field position? With a good FG kicker, a 40 yd bomb from their 45 yd line (say) takes 3 points off the board. Not same thing as punt. Good question on cause/effect but seems to me when teams are down late by a big score, it's often the end result of turnovers given up that turned into points against.
Bobby Hooks Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Taylor? Yuck! I’d rather start Webb. AJ will do.
ngbills Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 10 hours ago, Lfod said: Tyrod is fine if you don't mind a few 3 point games in a season. You like 3 point games and that's fine. He has 2-3 of these games in his ~50 starts but ok...
T master Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 10 hours ago, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. There is one big difference AJ reads the D much better & faster than Tyrod so with that being said AJ being more accurate between the hash marks in the middle of the field along with making the decision with his anticipation of a WR or TE coming open will have & has proven to have a higher completion percentage . Tyrod took a lot more sacks & had to run more because he was slower at reading the D . We have all seen during the time Tyrod was our QB players that were open & he didn't see them coming open or didn't have the confidence in what he was seeing to throw into the window given . AJ has (any time I've watched him) shown a Brady like awareness of the field . IMHO i think he will be a great QB & we will see the same kind of production & player that he was while playing for Saban along with the wins ! Only if given a true chance to prove himself & Allen because of where he was taken in the draft isn't anointed the day one starter to work out his faults while in real game situations which could be either a terribly bad thing or a awesome like good thing !! But i'm putting my money on AJ !! I think he could be the Bills Brady & if he's not it wouldn't surprise me if Bellichek noticed his talent took him for nothing installed him in his offense & made the Bills & the AFC east pay for another 10 years after he is gone & turns the reigns over to the next HC !!
BringBackOrton Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I fully expect Tyrod to have success in Cleveland. He has weapons and is 1,000,000,000x better than anyone that they’ve run out there since they came back into the league. I would expect Baker to take the reigns at some point though. While Tyrod is better today than anyone on our roster today te Bills are trying to go forward. They have reached decent. Now they want to get to good. The Browns are trying to reach decent. It’s just a different situation. Allen will dictate whether or not the team goes forward or back. I don’t expect Allen to have Andy Dalton’s career. He’s going to be a star or a bust IMO. Success with Tyrod in Cleveland is playing .200 ball.
boyst Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 2 hours ago, IndyMark said: Regarding your first statement above, can you try that again in simple English? Regarding your second, you must have hated Jim Kelly, he averaged over 1 interception a game throughout his career. Only one season was his INT total less than 10; specifically, Kelly compared to Taylor on INT% was 3.7% vs. 1.4%, respectively. Interceptions are part of the game when your quarterback, you know, throws downfield. That was a different breed of football back then. Look across the board. And I'd bet we lose by wider margins in 2018 than we did by 2017 because we give more balls away.
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