TAinLack. Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Lfod said: Tyrod is fine if you don't mind a few 3 point games in a season. You like 3 point games and that's fine. The defense can keep the score low enough to give our offense a chance to win.., I hope.!
Seanbillsfan2206 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 5 hours ago, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. ??
Skins Malone Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Nah the Bills needed to move on. I wish we had more weapons and were more solid on the oline but it is what it is. Let AJ start this year and load up on offense in next years draft
atlbillsfan1975 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Congrats to the sentiment I am seeing here in response to the OP, it is time to stop living in the past. When we as a Bills fan base can try to move on from our past we have a chance to enjoy the future.
Shaw66 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 5 hours ago, StHustle said: As much as I like Tyrod, the decision to move him was the right decision. Don't forget we moved him for a pick that was used to snatch Allen (who I DID NOT WANT but he is a Bill now so Im rooting for him of course). Tyrod showed he can only get us so far. As long as the drought lasted, that doesnt mean we should accept a QB that can only get us to the playoffs and most likely second round at best. We have to swing for the fences because a Superbowl is and always will be the goal. What good is it being the Bengals, a team that can make the playoffs often but never go anywhere after that? No thanks. Lets aim for a QB that can carry the team when needed. Tyrod wan't that. Allen or AJ may not either...we will find out and move on if they aren't. Speaking of moving on...Tyrod is now a Brown. You should move on too. This 3 hours ago, BuffaloTX said: It's amusing to see all these fans think this team is going to make a jump from last year and improve. Not happening!!! This team is in rebuild mode and won't be ready to play for championships any sooner than 2019. Why would you pay Tyrod Taylor all that money just to go 7-9/8-8 like they always do? Saving the money and letting this process work is the right move. Buffalo is finally out of cap hell next year yet so many of you want to complain. If any of you think any of these moves made in the last 12 months are to win now....you don't get it. And this. 1
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Right now, Tom Brady would fail in this offense because the talent is awful.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 5 hours ago, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. Kzoo, I respect the QB draft data you presented in another thread. Here, your take on AJ off. It's pretty hard to make a case that a 1.7% turnover rate (in a small sample of 5 games) constitutes "much more turnover prone" (and no, he doesn't fumble more). I wouldn't want to make a deal out of 2.8 sacks per game vs 3 sacks per game either. In fact, when I did my draft QB analysis using hard metrics, there were two names that popped up and surprised me. One was AJ McCarron, the other was Cody Kessler. That said, I agree of course about the talent depletion on the offense, and the fact that when AJ played decently at the end of season for the Bengals, he had very talented WR and a solid OL. I think he is a far better pocket-passing QB who can read the D and understand where to go with the ball, he just doesn't always have the arm to get it there. You're probably right that Taylor would give us better play at the QB position because of his legs, but I think the Bills went with the "Good is the Enemy of Great" philosophy there. When we traded Taylor, I thought for sure we were going to make a push to sign one of the big FA, and maybe we were but got out-bid? I'm not sure having McCarron and a rookie (and Peterman) in the QB room was the plan. That said, if McCarron is a smart and hard working guy, perhaps they feel he will be a better mentor in the room, and a better example of standing in the pocket, making reads and progressions on the field? We have got to do something about our OL and WR though. Very disappointed if we go to training camp where we are today. 1
Gugny Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 6 hours ago, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. I'm genuinely wondering how you were able to assess AJ McCarron based on his limited real NFL action. He's started 3 games and played in 11 (some being coming in for a kneel-down). You're comparing him to Tyrod, who was given the starting job in Buffalo for three seasons. I can respect that you think keeping Tyrod would have been best. I disagree; but I respect it. But you're unfairly assessing McCarron's potential and unfairly comparing him to a 3-year starter, in my opinion. 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: We have got to do something about our OL and WR though. Very disappointed if we go to training camp where we are today. I've been all about "trusting the process," from day one. I cannot believe that Beane went into this draft knowing exactly how the OL would be handled. I'm far less concerned about WR. My guess is that both OL and WR will look markedly different by the time training camp comes. I sure as hell hope so! 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gugny said: I'm genuinely wondering how you were able to assess AJ McCarron based on his limited real NFL action. He's started 3 games and played in 11 (some being coming in for a kneel-down). You're comparing him to Tyrod, who was given the starting job in Buffalo for three seasons. I can respect that you think keeping Tyrod would have been best. I disagree; but I respect it. But you're unfairly assessing McCarron's potential and unfairly comparing him to a 3-year starter, in my opinion. Gug, you have a good point here (though it's 4 games not 3 - there was a playoff game). For people who are watching the film, not just looking at the stats, I do think 4 1/2 games is a good solid sample of where McCarron was as a QB. Then you look at the stats and say "no, it's not true that he's more turnover prone or gets sacked more, but he's throwing to talented receivers, and he's not getting a lot of offense out of it." I think it's a fair assessment of where AJ McCarron was in 2015. The unknown of course, is where AJ McCarron is now and can he progress with more time.
boyst Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Boludo said: dude no one gives a crap about tyrod taylor anymore quit living in the past man I'd take 3 pt games in a season over 10+ down 10+ with 2 INT's The average fan who doesn't get football never appreciates lack of INT's 1 1
Gugny Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Gug, you have a good point here (though it's 4 games not 3 - there was a playoff game). For people who are watching the film, not just looking at the stats, I do think 4 1/2 games is a good solid sample of where McCarron was as a QB. Then you look at the stats and say "no, it's not true that he's more turnover prone or gets sacked more, but he's throwing to talented receivers, and he's not getting a lot of offense out of it." I think it's a fair assessment of where AJ McCarron was in 2015. The unknown of course, is where AJ McCarron is now and can he progress with more time. All I know is that I'm excited to see how it all plays out. I think there's a lot more unknown with McCarron, than known; and obviously (although some disagree) Josh Allen is ALL unknown. I expect McCarron to look a lot better than Allen right out of the gate. If they are close, then I'd consider that a bad sign for AJ (and a good one for Allen). This is going to be fun to watch unfold.
Da webster guy Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 7 hours ago, StHustle said: As much as I like Tyrod, the decision to move him was the right decision. Don't forget we moved him for a pick that was used to snatch Allen (who I DID NOT WANT but he is a Bill now so Im rooting for him of course). Tyrod showed he can only get us so far. As long as the drought lasted, that doesnt mean we should accept a QB that can only get us to the playoffs and most likely second round at best. We have to swing for the fences because a Superbowl is and always will be the goal. What good is it being the Bengals, a team that can make the playoffs often but never go anywhere after that? No thanks. Lets aim for a QB that can carry the team when needed. Tyrod wan't that. Allen or AJ may not either...we will find out and move on if they aren't. Speaking of moving on...Tyrod is now a Brown. You should move on too. we used clevelands pick to get Edmunds, but your point remains legit. Tyrod was fun to watch but painfully inconsistent. Great guy, good riddance.
nedboy7 Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Let’s see how long Allen lasts with this fan base. Should be fun to see.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: we used clevelands pick to get Edmunds, but your point remains legit. Tyrod was fun to watch but painfully inconsistent. Great guy, good riddance. Here's some wild speculation. What if Beane was being disingenuous when asked about Allen's tweets - saying he didn't know about that but meaning their publication, not their existence? What if they thought they wanted Allen all along, based on their scouting last season and the Sr Bowl? Tyrod had a track record of 2x previously bringing up race as an factor in the team's handling of him as a QB. Powder keg, meet match - that would NOT be a good QB room.
Big Gun Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: I'd take 3 pt games in a season over 10+ down 10+ with 2 INT's The average fan who doesn't get football never appreciates lack of INT's I don't think throwing int means a whole lot. It's when they are thrown that matters. If you find a QB that goes for 25/15 TD/int for 15 years he is a HOF History suggests that some of the greatest QB threw lots and lots of ints but were able to overcome them. Plenty of HOF in this list Rank Player Int Years Tm 1 Brett Favre+ 336 1991-2010 4TM 2 George Blanda+ 277 1949-1975 4TM 3 John Hadl 268 1962-1977 4TM 4 Vinny Testaverde 267 1987-2007 7TM 5 Fran Tarkenton+ 266 1961-1978 2TM 6 Norm Snead 257 1961-1976 5TM 7 Johnny Unitas+ 253 1956-1973 2TM 8 Dan Marino+ 252 1983-1999 mia 9 Peyton Manning 251 1998-2015 2TM 10 Y.A. Tittle+ 248 1948-1964 3TM 11 Jim Hart 247 1966-1984 2TM 12 Bobby Layne+ 243 1948-1962 4TM 13 Dan Fouts+ 242 1973-1987 sdg 14 Warren Moon+ 233 1984-2000 4TM 15 Drew Brees 228 2001-2017 2TM Eli Manning 228 2004-2017 nyg 17 John Elway+ 226 1983-1998 den 18 John Brodie 224 1957-1973 sfo 19 Ken Stabler+ 222 1970-1984 3TM 20 Joe Namath+ 220 1965-1977 2TM Babe Parilli 220 1952-1969 5TM 22 Terry Bradshaw+ 210 1970-1983 pit 23 Joe Ferguson 209 1973-1990 4TM 24 Steve Grogan 208 1975-1990 nwe 25 Drew Bledsoe 206 1993-2006 3TM 26 Steve DeBerg 204 1978-1998 6TM 27 Sammy Baugh+ 203 1937-1952 was 28 Dave Krieg 199 1980-1998 6TM 29 Jim Plunkett 198 1971-1986 3TM 30 Kerry Collins 196 1995-2011 6TM 31 Tobin Rote 191 1950-1966 4TM 32 Sonny Jurgensen+ 189 1957-1974 2TM 33 Craig Morton 187 1965-1982 3TM Carson Palmer 187 2004-2017 3TM 35 Boomer Esiason 184 1984-1997 3TM 36 Len Dawson+ 183 1957-1975 3TM Jack Kemp 183 1957-1969 3TM 38 Charley Johnson 181 1961-1975 3TM 39 Lynn Dickey 179 1971-1985 2TM 40 Norm Van Brocklin+ 178 1949-1960 2TM 41 Jim Everett 175 1986-1997 3TM Jim Kelly+ 175 1986-1996 buf 43 Ben Roethlisberger 174 2004-2017 pit 44 Archie Manning 173 1971-1984 3TM 45 Bob Griese+ 172 1967-1980 mia 46 Charlie Conerly 167 1948-1961 nyg 47 Philip Rivers 166 2004-2017 sdg 48 Jon Kitna 165 1997-2011 4TM 49 Ron Jaworski 164 1974-1989 4TM 50 Dan Pastorini 161 1971-1983 4TM Jake Plummer 161 1997-2006 2TM Richard Todd 161 1976-1985 2TM 53 Ken Anderson 160 1971-1986 cin Tom Brady 160 2000-2017 nwe Jay Cutler 160 2006-2017 3TM Edited April 29, 2018 by PeterGriffin
YoloinOhio Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Baker Mayfield 3rd on depth chart and Tyrod Taylor will lead the Browns, says Hue Jackson http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/04/baker_mayfield_3rd_on_depth_ch.html
Teddy KGB Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Tyrod still sucks. Mayfield and Haley are gonna make his life a disaster in Cleveland too.
bobobonators Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 7 hours ago, KzooMike said: After seeing how little we added to the offense, unless we add some major production prior to start of the year we are poised to have one of the most talent depleted offenses in football. If you asked me my preference between AJ and Tyrod I would say AJ, but that's only if he has play makers around him. Tyrod can't take advantage of play makers as much AJ can, but the reality is, we have nobody outside of McCoy. AJ holds the ball like Taylor, high sack rates, little mobility, much more turnover prone. What Tyrod can do is generate yards on his own. He helped mask the offensive line issues. He didn't commit turnovers. I'm certainly not arguing at all that an upgrade was required over Taylor. I just just think with this current roster Taylor would have given us a better chance to win games. “Tyrod cant take advantage of play makers as much as AJ can” AJ has done jack **** in this league.
Maine-iac Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 Someone tell me how this "process" is different than Marrone with Schwartz/Pettine and Hackett in 2014/15? Is Daboll better than Hackett? We certainly don't have anywhere near the talent. How long until the "rebuild" starts yielding results. Bring in a different QB? I was on board with that. That said I we had 7 picks in the first 3 rounds and ended up with 3 players one of them being a QB who by all accounts needs work with accuracy and reading defenses. I stopped drinking the kool aid on coaches with "processes" a long time ago. A good coach comes in and changes the offense/defense from playing bad to playing well. You stop the other team from scoring and you yourself score more. You acquire more talent to do so. This idea that one player is the absolute beginning and end of it all is absurd. I will certainly hope for Allen's success because at this point the alternative is another 2/3 years in the crapper and most likely another regime change.
Teddy KGB Posted April 29, 2018 Posted April 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Baker Mayfield 3rd on depth chart and Tyrod Taylor will lead the Browns, says Hue Jackson http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/04/baker_mayfield_3rd_on_depth_ch.html Watching Mayfield and Haley throw temper tantrums as Taylor’s pitching another 80 yard passing day is must see tv ?. 1
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