Tyrod Taylor turning heads in Cleveland.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

What happens when:

 

1. Your QB throws an INT in the end zone and the DB is tackled immediately.

 

2. Your team punts the ball through the back of the end zone.

 

I'll help you out... both opposing offenses will start with the ball on their own 20. 

 

 

The point is that at the end of the day -- regardless of the situation -- the end result is the same: they have the ball and you don't. 

 

 

 

So, with your logic, at the beginning of each half- and after either team scores a touchdown or a field goal - the ensuing kickoff is a turnover.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Gugny

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Browns are going to game plan for Taylor's strengths and surround him with talent. And the media will talk about what a Billsy move trading him was.

 

It is not impossible that Todd Haley will be able to construct an offense tailored, as it were, for Taylor.  Or at least that he will try.

 

However, to date, his ability to do that gets a resounding verdict of "not proven"

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

What happens when:

 

1. Your QB throws an INT in the end zone and the DB is tackled immediately.

 

2. Your team punts the ball through the back of the end zone.

 

I'll help you out... both opposing offenses will start with the ball on their own 20. 

 

 

The point is that at the end of the day -- regardless of the situation -- the end result is the same: they have the ball and you don't. 

 

 

Which result gives the ball to the opposition in worse field position? You know the answer even as you try to defend another of your piss poor takes. Punting the ball away almost always leaves the opposition with worse field position than a turnover. Turnovers happen with 10 yards of the LOS often while punts are 40 yards down the field. 

 

Keep bringing these terrible takes though. The more you try to twist things the less credibility you have. 

[Cusefan66214]

On 4/19/2018 at 4:39 PM, PIZ said:

Part of Beane's master plan. Get Cleveland to think Tyrod is the guy for a few years, paving the way for Buffalo to trade up to #1.

 

 

To be clear, he isn’t turning heads with his actual quarterback play

[twoandfourteen]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

214 yards passing and 40 rushing per game is his career average over 42 starts. To me that’s him as a floor. So 250 ypg and less than 6 ints per season with a 90 ish passer rating. Certainly not greatness,  but not close to terrible. 

 

You've got to be kidding me. 

 

You clearly have absolutely no concept or understanding of what "floor" and "average" mean. 

 

Taylor has played in 44 games as the starting QB of the Bills.

 

30 of them have been under 230 yards passing. In fact, over 50% of his games as a starter have been under 200 yards passing. To expect 250 ypg from the guy is pure fantasy with a heavy dollop of delusion. You're far more likely to get 180 or less. 

 

A very smart, articulate, and enlightened poster once posted a breakdown of TT's career production. You should go take a look. 

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

9 hours ago, The Red King said:

 

Let me be crystal clear.  At no point did I say the JAX game was solely TT's fault.  But pointing out others' mistakes does not absolve TT of his.  My opinion of TT differs from most.  I think he's a good QB.  But he has his limits.  I think he is better then most TT detractors do and I think he is worse then most TT supporters.  The JAX game was a game that BUF needed TT to step up, and he didn't.  That is TT encapsulated.  It's rare to be able to point to a game and say "Yeah, TT lost that one for us."  But, at the same time, it is equally rare to be able to point to a game and say "Yeah, TT won that one for us."

I don't think TT is a good QB at all, I think we got so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so very lucky to even make it into the playoffs. I predicted before the game that Taylor would be ultra conservative and over throw passes so they would have no chance to be picked off. I would like to see a statistic for turnover that counts all INT's, Fumbles and every time the offense has to punt the football. If you add all that up I bet Taylor is in the top 3 for turnovers in 2017.

[twoandfourteen]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Which result gives the ball to the opposition in worse field position? You know the answer even as you try to defend another of your piss poor takes. Punting the ball away almost always leaves the opposition with worse field position than a turnover. Turnovers happen with 10 yards of the LOS often while punts are 40 yards down the field. 

 

Keep bringing these terrible takes though. The more you try to twist things the less credibility you have. 

 

I'm not twisting anything. I'm simplifying things. 

 

You keep adding modifiers. I'm saying that when you strip away everything, the end result is the same. Sure, most of the time you put the other team further in their own end, but with offenses and elite QBs moving the ball the way they do now, field position is no where near as significant as you are making it out to be. 

 

TT avoiding INTs by not making throws results in the other team getting the ball with worse field position, but also guarantees he won't be scoring points or gaining yards either. You win the field position battle, but you've lost the game. 

[The Wiz]

All these comments and I'm surprised that crappy crayon drawing of taylor starring down KB and then checking down hasn't shown up yet.

[Kirby Jackson]

6 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I don't think TT is a good QB at all, I think we got so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so so very lucky to even make it into the playoffs. I predicted before the game that Taylor would be ultra conservative and over throw passes so they would have no chance to be picked off. I would like to see a statistic for turnover that counts all INT's, Fumbles and every time the offense has to punt the football. If you add all that up I bet Taylor is in the top 3 for turnovers in 2017.

Except even you would agree that punting the ball 40 yards down the field > than throwing a pick 6 yards from the LOS

[twoandfourteen]

15 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

So, with your logic, at the beginning of each half- and after either team scores a touchdown or a field goal - the ensuing kickoff is a turnover.

 

I suppose you could say that, in essence, yes -- you are giving possession to the other team. 

 

But it's not the same because a team has no choice in that situation. The kickoff is in the rules as part of the scoring sequence and to initiate gameplay. 

 

There is nothing in the rules about avoiding a throw on 3rd down because there's a DB near the WR and punting instead. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, twoandfourteen said:

 

I'm not twisting anything. I'm simplifying things. 

 

You keep adding modifiers. I'm saying that when you strip away everything, the end result is the same. Sure, most of the time you put the other team further in their own end, but with offenses and elite QBs moving the ball the way they do now, field position is no where near as significant as you are making it out to be. 

 

TT avoiding INTs by not making throws results in the other team getting the ball with worse field position, but also guarantees he won't be scoring points or gaining yards either. You win the field position battle, but you've lost the game. 

You aren’t simplifying anything!! You are making yourself look really stupid. The end result isn’t the same!! So you think that handing someone the ball at your 30 and their 30 is the same? 

 

Apparently you don’t think this is important but teams that win the turnover battle have consistently been winning 78% of the games:

http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

7th ranked offense = 30th passing/1st rushing

 

There are no Russian judges assigning style points in football.

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It is not impossible that Todd Haley will be able to construct an offense tailored, as it were, for Taylor.  Or at least that he will try.

 

However, to date, his ability to do that gets a resounding verdict of "not proven"

 

Because the Bills offensive geniuses kept trying to force Taylor into their pre-determined box, maybe?

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Except even you would agree that punting the ball 40 yards down the field > than throwing a pick 6 yards from the LOS

With the way offense's are moving the football turning the ball over is turning the ball over. I agree that turning over the ball at the LOS is worst than punting it 40 yards. 

[twoandfourteen]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Except even you would agree that punting the ball 40 yards down the field > than throwing a pick 6 yards from the LOS

 

Of course. I can assume then, that you would agree that a QB throwing an INT on 3rd down at the other team's 37 > than a punt return for a TD, correct?

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Of course. I can assume then, that you would agree that a QB throwing an INT on 3rd down at the other team's 37 > than a punt return for a TD, correct?

 

Here it is in the simplest of terms:

 

A turnover is when a team unintentionally gives the ball to the other team.

 

When a team punts, they are intentionally giving the ball to the other team.

 

Therefore, they are not the same - even though the end result (the other team getting the ball) is the same.

[twoandfourteen]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There are no Russian judges assigning style points in football.

 

Because the Bills offensive geniuses kept trying to force Taylor into their pre-determined box, maybe?

 

True -- but we are clearly discussing Tyrod's production as a QB and his contribution to that "7th ranked offense".

 

The reality is that the guy contributed very little as a passer. He's a better-than-average, competent backup QB -- probably in the 35-40 range if you're looking at league QBs as a whole after this upcoming draft. 

 

His greatest attribute as a QB was not in what he was able TO do, but in what he DIDN'T do. At least, that's what all you Team Tyrod guys say. 

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Here it is in the simplest of terms:

 

A turnover is when a team unintentionally gives the ball to the other team.

 

When a team punts, they are intentionally giving the ball to the other team.

 

Therefore, they are not the same - even though the end result (the other team getting the ball) is the same.

 

Correct -- I have been focused on that end result this whole time.  

 

The two occurrences ultimately have the same end result. 

 

 

Now, back to the curious case of Tyrod Taylor... which is generally better?

 

8 drives that end in 8 punts or 8 drives that end in 2 INTs, 3 punts, 1 FG, 2 TDs?

 

 

[Gugny]

7 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Now, back to the curious case of Tyrod Taylor... which is generally better?

 

8 drives that end in 8 punts or 8 drives that end in 2 INTs, 3 punts, 1 FG, 2 TDs?

 

 

 

 

The 8 drives that end in 2 INTs, 3 punts, 1 FG and 2 TDs would be the better drives.

 

Both drives, however, would indicate that the QB sucks.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Hotrod holds the record for highest completion percentage in Buffalo Bills franchise history.

You can keep holding on to the great stats for the worst passing offense 3 years running.   

 

I’m not fooled.  

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

Of course. I can assume then, that you would agree that a QB throwing an INT on 3rd down at the other team's 37 > than a punt return for a TD, correct?

I would, but I’m sure that you’d agree a turnover is more likely to result in a TD than a punt. If not, there are plenty of facts that can be provided to confirm.

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You can keep holding on to the great stats for the worst passing offense 3 years running.   

 

I’m not fooled.  

Where we differ is I don’t care about “passing offense.” I care about points and wins. I don’t care if we win like Army or Navy. Last year the Bills offense regressed but top 10 DVOA and scoring in back-to-back years is plenty good enough for me. If we didn’t have Rex ruining the defense (should have just kept Schwartz) that team could have contended. 

[twoandfourteen]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You aren’t simplifying anything!! You are making yourself look really stupid. The end result isn’t the same!! So you think that handing someone the ball at your 30 and their 30 is the same? 

 

Apparently you don’t think this is important but teams that win the turnover battle have consistently been winning 78% of the games:

http://www.footballperspective.com/winning-the-turnover-battle/

 

 

 

And then you have Tyrod with the other 22% of those games, haha. 

 

The point I'm making here is this -- yes, obviously you want to avoid turnovers. But that's only really valuable if you are throwing the ball, gaining 1st downs, and scoring TDs, like Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. 

 

If you are artificially avoiding turnovers by not putting passes in places that result in yards, 1st downs, and TDs -- like Tyrod Taylor -- then that is just as detrimental to your ability to win games as is throwing a bunch of INTs. Taylor actually loses you games, it's just not as obvious.

Edited April 21, 2018 by twoandfourteen