racketmaster Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 Great perspective from someone that follows the team closely. Never understood the hatred for Allen by so many. Yes, there are significant concerns but he does have some rare qualities. 1
Big Turk Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, racketmaster said: Great perspective from someone that follows the team closely. Never understood the hatred for Allen by so many. Yes, there are significant concerns but he does have some rare qualities. So do all the QBs tsken in the first round typically. Why dont all of them turn into great players then?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said: Not trying to convert anyone. Just trying to tell you that if everyone in the football world- scouts, GM's analysts, etc.- likes Josh Allen but you, a fan listening to WGR and calling in on the whiner line, does not, it might be time for you to take a look in the mirror and try and understand why people who know way more about football than you, do like him. Well OK, I'm with you on opposing the "over the top" stuff you called out in your OP. But you do realize that everyone in the football world - scouts GMs analysts etc - does not "like" Josh Allen in the sense of considering him a top of the 1st draft pick or even necessarily a 1st round pick? So this dichotomy between "everyone knowledgeable likes Josh Allen while you, "Biff from Tonawanda", are just a whiner who needs to check yourself" is a bit much in the other direction.
Wily Dog Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: I don’t want us to draft Josh Allen. Fact 1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said: I agree with this: TRUE Are you both from Tonawanda ? Edited April 17, 2018 by Wily Dog
Bangarang Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Wily Dog said: Are you both from Tonawanda ? Negative
LeGOATski Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 Josh Allen can't hit a target net from 10 yards away: FACT.
Zerovoltz Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 Good write up. I don't agree with all of it, but it's useful information. I remain skeptical due to completion pct.....and the bothersome part is....this kid was a physical specimen, from California. He had to go to JUCO, where he had a low completion pct. .....you are asking me to believe that that this manchild with a golden arm, in California, was NOT RECRUITED to a divsion 1 school, where you would think that a coaching staff would be interested in coaching him up. That didn't happen. He went to JUCO and didn't light the world on fire there. He can throw it far. His targets, had a low drop pct. He was playing against lesser talented defenders. There is alot to like....clearly he is being considered because of the good qualities. I certainly can't say the OP is wrong, or that Allen can't be coached into being better than he has been....but I don't like the odds. I will remain skeptical.
Big Turk Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well OK, I'm with you on opposing the "over the top" stuff you called out in your OP. But you do realize that everyone in the football world - scouts GMs analysts etc - does not "like" Josh Allen in the sense of considering him a top of the 1st draft pick or even necessarily a 1st round pick? So this dichotomy between "everyone knowledgeable likes Josh Allen while you, "Biff from Tonawanda", are just a whiner who needs to check yourself" is a bit much in the other direction. Nobody in the football world can consistently judge QBs properly more than 50% of the time. In fact they could just take a coin and flip it and be right as often or more often and it would allow them a lot more free time to play golf Edited April 17, 2018 by matter2003
Turk71 Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 Yep, he is just misunderstood. One of the greatest qbs to ever play, he was only playing at Wyoming because all the Biff's running college teams were too stupid to realize how great he was. His completion % has always been low because he throws the ball down the field a lot. That fact is not accurately reflected in his ypa because people are biffs. Biffs I tell ya!?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Blokestradamus said: Someone else chimed in about this (I forgot who, feel free to jump in if you see this), that there's no rhyme or reason to his misfires. With Darnold/Lamar, I see misses mainly due to their base. With Allen, there's not one consistent element to his inconsistencies. Ergo, how do you fix what seems to be natural inaccuracy with no root cause? Well, I was one of those who made that observation - that when I see Jackson or Darnold being inaccurate, I can see why in their base. If I pause the vid, I can tell if the throw will be accurate or not. So I feel like there are things you can drill and try to improve, especially since much of the time it's good. But with Allen, I can't see that. There are times when he's inaccurate and I can't see a thing wrong. I think Buffalo716 said the same. To be fair, someone else here (I think it was Bandit) felt that more of his inaccuracies than generally credited could be put on the WR not being where he expected, and someone else posted a piece by a QB coach - Jordan Palmer? who has been working with Allen and had some stuff to say about subtle mechanic things that he says Allen is improving. I can't see subtleties in real time throwing motion myself, unless I have film I can watch in slowmo. So I don't know.
BillsFan17 Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 21 minutes ago, racketmaster said: Great perspective from someone that follows the team closely. Never understood the hatred for Allen by so many. Yes, there are significant concerns but he does have some rare qualities. There are players throughout the draft that possess certain traits that exceed the norm. However, it's how many of those traits you have in relation to the deficiencies. This is what separates players and honestly Allen's traits do not void out his massive deficiencies. This is very similar to Cardale Jones. Cardale could throw the ball through a car wash and it come out the other side dry. However, how accurately the kid was with the ball was an issue, yet, Allen is supposedly that much more of an arm talent? Please this is a mix of Boller, Losman, and Cardale all mixed into one.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 55 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: There is a nagging thought in my mind that perhaps Gentry played kingmaker for Allen just a little. Shades of Mike Evans and Johnny Manziel at A&M, perhaps not quite as pronounced. Perhaps a bit how I was initially very impressed with Mason Rudolph, then I noticed how much James Washington was helping him out and I started coveting Rudolph's WR? 1
Jay_Fixit Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 One that wasn’t touched on. Josh Allen is innacurate. True. And this is the most important one. 48 minutes ago, Augie said: His highlight stuff is amazing! All-time amazing! His lowlights make you wonder how that can be the same guy. As I posted elsewhere, Greg Cosell said recently Allen demonstrates the difference between “arm strength” and “arm talent” (Yes, arm talent IS a real thing.) Arm talent is as real as Sasquatch. It’s a term invented by Trent Dilfer to provide people a lazy way of describing all things Arm. And as all of us with eyes know, throwing is much more than just “arm.” Arm Talent. Lol
Domdab99 Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said: Not trying to convert anyone. Just trying to tell you that if everyone in the football world- scouts, GM's analysts, etc.- likes Josh Allen but you, a fan listening to WGR and calling in on the whiner line, does not, it might be time for you to take a look in the mirror and try and understand why people who know way more about football than you, do like him. This is so far from the truth, it's laughable
Fadingpain Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 To the OP: Let's hope lots of NFL teams not located in Buffalo, NY agree with you! Would love for someone like Josh Rosen to slip into our hands! Sigmund Bloom was on today with Schopp & Bulldog; he said Cleveland may well take Allen #1 overall.
racketmaster Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: There are players throughout the draft that possess certain traits that exceed the norm. However, it's how many of those traits you have in relation to the deficiencies. This is what separates players and honestly Allen's traits do not void out his massive deficiencies. This is very similar to Cardale Jones. Cardale could throw the ball through a car wash and it come out the other side dry. However, how accurately the kid was with the ball was an issue, yet, Allen is supposedly that much more of an arm talent? Please this is a mix of Boller, Losman, and Cardale all mixed into one. This is your opinion and I completely disagree with comparing Allen to Jones. Sure they compare well physically but Cardale was known as a goofball and did not take his craft seriously. That makes a big difference. There are major physical differences between Losman/Boller and Allen. Allen has 2-3 inches on them and weighs 20lbs more. There are more differences which have been pointed out in previous threads. I feel like I have wasted too much time already because people are dug in and see what they want to see. I am no Allen homer and he may end up busting but it also would not entirely shock me if he ended up having a career like Stafford or a Favre (who have more in common with Allen as far as traits/stats than Losman and Boller). Edited April 17, 2018 by racketmaster
Fadingpain Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: One that wasn’t touched on. Josh Allen is innacurate. True. And this is the most important one. Arm talent is as real as Sasquatch. It’s a term invented by Trent Dilfer to provide people a lazy way of describing all things Arm. And as all of us with eyes know, throwing is much more than just “arm.” Arm Talent. Lol "Arm Talent" is one of these B.S. sports terms that has magically been invented in the last few years that is religiously parroted by every moron trying to sound intelligent. I rank it right up there with "time and space" in hockey talk. Another good one, though not reserved to the sporting realm, is "optics". I want to kill every person I hear talking about "optics" as in "the appearance of something". A couple other terms that are now strangely routinely used, usually in a wrong context, in sports talk: "narrative" and "hyperbole". FACT CHECK: No one living in Tonawanda is actually named "Biff": TRUE. 1
racketmaster Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Blokestradamus said: There is a nagging thought in my mind that perhaps Gentry played kingmaker for Allen just a little. Shades of Mike Evans and Johnny Manziel at A&M, perhaps not quite as pronounced. I don't wish ill on the guy, he seems to be a genuinely good human being. I'm just not convinced that many of these "all the tools" guys have actually put it together. He's mid-stage Humpty Dumpty, all the pieces are there but you've got a hell of a job putting them back together again. Gentry was an undrafted free agent that was waived like 3 or 4 times by the Bears last year. Evans was a top 10 pick. They are nothing alike as far as wr talents.
Chicken Boo Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 One thing I will say is that Allen's completion percentage would easily be in the 60s had Wyoming attempted more high percentage throws (screens, bubble screens, etc.) They were few and far between in this offense. I can understand why a Todd Haley would love him, especially after a year or so on the bench. 2
Buffalo716 Posted April 17, 2018 Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) All those arguments are nothing new. I’ve heard them all but idk what qualifies as unheralded for a JUCO prospect. Sure not many D1 offers but but I knew who he was and 247 which is highly respectable has him as the 5th ranked Dual threat JUCO QB from his class.. that’s a pretty high JUCO ranking .80 grade Baker Mayfields was .8383 iirc https://247sports.com/Player/Josh-Allen-78109 Edited April 17, 2018 by Buffalo716 1
Recommended Posts