Article about Mahomes trade, negotiations with Whaley for pick

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

 

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

I agree.  It's just very clear that if you're looking for a QB you have to look for one at the top of the draft, and when you're near the top you must take your shot.   It just happened that the years they took Marcell and Sammy there wasn't a good QB to go after, but last year there was.  

[Dr. Who]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I think it's pretty tough to hang the first round decision last year on McDermott.   I have to believe that he was in control, at least in the sense that he had veto power.   I don't know if he power to actually make the decision.   But even if he did have the power, he's working off all the data and evaluations that Whaley and Whaley's people did, and he pretty much had to trust that.   If Whaley didn't have Mahomes or Watson at or near 10, he wasn't going to do it.    

 

It was rumored Whaley wanted to take a qb.  I think he liked Mahomes, but no way to verify.

[Reed83HOF]

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2018/02/josh_rosen_to_the_buffalo_bills_is_what_ive_heard_repeatedly_says_eric_galko.html

 

Although Whaley was on board with getting Trubisky, Galko said head coach Sean McDermott decided to kick the can on adding a quarterback high in the draft.

"But when Sean McDermott got there, (he) really won over a lot of that front office, a lot of that ownership group and they believed in McDermott. And McDermott believed in Tyrod Taylor and he said, 'Hey, let's kick the can on drafting a quarterback right now.' They didn't move up for Trubisky. They moved back and the Chiefs go up and get Pat Mahomes and they took Tre'Davious White, which they're definitely happy with, but they passed on basically two quarterback opportunities they had and that's not counting Deshaun Watson either..."

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Terrible strategy that could easily backfire...

It was McDermott and he did have the power....

How do you know he had the power to call the pick?   I think he did have some power, but I don't think the Bills ever have said how it was handled.   

 

And in any case, MD had to rely on Whaley and Whaley's team.   McD wasn't going to do his own independent evaluation of Mahomes and, if it was contrary to Whaley's analysis, jump on it.   

The m,ore I think about it, I think McD wanted to save the draft capital for 2018 so he and the new GM could have the flexibility they had this year.   

 

And, by the way, I think it's likely Whaley knew going into the draft that he was done after the draft.  

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

It was rumored Whaley wanted to take a qb.  I think he liked Mahomes, but no way to verify.

I can imagine McD vetoing that move and forcing the trade back.  

[stony]

12 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

IMO McD knew the whole FO would be turned over after the draft, he likely gets 1 real shot at QB, he was going to wait on the scouts he trusted to evaluate and identify the QB to stake it all on, they weren't in a position to decide that last year.

Yessir.  Further proof IMO they'll be doing whatever it takes to get that guy this year.  

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

How do you know he had the power to call the pick?   I think he did have some power, but I don't think the Bills ever have said how it was handled.   

 

And in any case, MD had to rely on Whaley and Whaley's team.   McD wasn't going to do his own independent evaluation of Mahomes and, if it was contrary to Whaley's analysis, jump on it.   

The m,ore I think about it, I think McD wanted to save the draft capital for 2018 so he and the new GM could have the flexibility they had this year.   

 

And, by the way, I think it's likely Whaley knew going into the draft that he was done after the draft.  

I can imagine McD vetoing that move and forcing the trade back.  

They all knew they were done after the draft, it was widely reported. Someone in the FO even said, yeah after the draft we are all gone....

 

The Bills would never say how it was handled btw....

[Like A Mofo]

I found this interesting:

 

"Somebody can pull the rug out from under you, and all of a sudden you’re left holding nothing"

 

Would love to be a fly on the wall and listen to this negotiations.

 

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

They all knew they were done after the draft, it was widely reported. Someone in the FO even said, yeah after the draft we are all gone....

 

The Bills would never say how it was handled btw....

I think I recall what you say - that there were several non-attributed comments from people saying they were gone.   

 

And I know the Bills would never say, but stuff leaks sometimes.   

 

 

[John from Riverside]

Talk to me when Mahommes actually proves ANYTHING in the NFL

[GG]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

 

Absolutely correct.  The only rationale for passing on Mahomes & Watson was the belief that the 2018 class was head & shoulders above 2017, and Bills would probably be in a good position to draft the QB in 2018.  The only monkey wrench in that scenario is that I don't think the braintrust thought Bills would have the #21 pick in 2018.

[Yav]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Words to live by if you're a Bills fan:

 

“We had him valued as the top quarterback. I can see this guy developing into a really good football player. So why not take a shot at it? This is a quarterback-driven league. You have to do these things to sustain the level you are at for 10 years down the road.”

Meh - I don't see Mahomes being much more than an average QB. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

23 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, if Mahomes is as good as they say, and they seem to be pretty sure about it, Bills should have taken Mahomes last year, let him learn behind Taylor, and the Bills already would be all set.  

Agreed.

 

But you have to remember they have no first round pick. So teams talk it up to offset their fans feeling left out. The praise from the team is a bit over the top for a guy who has started one game. My guess is it is partly hype.

 

If I remember right the Bills declared JP their first round pick the year after they picked him for that same reason, to offset the let down feeling.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Agreed.

 

But you have to remember they have no first round pick. So teams talk it up to offset their fans feeling left out. The praise from the team is a bit over the top for a guy who has started one game. My guess is it is partly hype.

 

If I remember right the Bills declared JP their first round pick the year after they picked him for that same reason, to offset the let down feeling.

Right, but trading Alex Smith would also seem to indicate their faith in Mahomes is genuine, misplaced or not.

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

Right, but trading Alex Smith would also seem to indicate their faith in Mahomes is genuine, misplaced or not.

 

.....Yes....there is no reason for HYPE....they are actually all in on the guy....trading a pro bowl QB, with a year left at a reasonable 20 million ought to tell you way more than anything myself or some pundit could SAY.  They BELIEVE it....and so do I.

[dlonce]

Good for Whaley’s gentleman’s agreement but we lost out on trading to Houston,who also wanted Mahomes at 10.

 

Its not a good idea to agree in principal beforehand.

[BadLandsMeanie]

I personally think that McDermott did actually believe that Tyrod could be the guy. I don't think that was a lie.

 

In the Harry Potter books, there is a mirror that shows a person their heart's desire. I think Tyrod Taylor is the human version of that mirror.

You see a franchise QB just on the brink of breaking out into the sun! 

 

Now he will be that for the Browns.

[Rochesterfan]

Just now, dlonce said:

Good for Whaley’s gentleman’s agreement but we lost out on trading to Houston,who also wanted Mahomes at 10.

 

Its not a good idea to agree in principal beforehand.

 

 

Please show me this report- Repeatedly I have heard about trading with Houston, but everything I have seen has said Houston was not interested until after another QB was taken.  

 

They felt either or both Mahomes or Watson would be available at their pick - not sure they really needed to trade up.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 minute ago, dlonce said:

Good for Whaley’s gentleman’s agreement but we lost out on trading to Houston,who also wanted Mahomes at 10.

 

Its not a good idea to agree in principal beforehand.

I see what you mean but if your front office can't be trusted, that will come back to bite you.

 

Really if Houston wanted to make a better deal, they should have gone ahead and done that before draft day. They could have had a gentleman's agreement with Whaley instead. I wonder if they had a reputation where Whaley couldn't trust them?

 

 

[bigK14094]

30 minutes ago, Yav said:

Meh - I don't see Mahomes being much more than an average QB. 

Gruden thought he was Farve like....we will see soon enough.

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

.....Yes....there is no reason for HYPE....they are actually all in on the guy....trading a pro bowl QB, with a year left at a reasonable 20 million ought to tell you way more than anything myself or some pundit could SAY.  They BELIEVE it....and so do I.

 

 

Yeah because teams never get rid of Veterans for the promising rookie/1st year player and then see that player fail.

 

I mean just looking at the Bills - they didn’t get rid of Bledsoe to allow JP to start or Fitzpatrick to move on to EJ or anything.

 

It happens that teams move on from Veterans to save money and assume the young QB will be ok.

 

I think Mahomes will be average, but I think they overall will not be as good without the veteran leadership.  Mahomes screams average.  Many great plays and many bonehead throws for turnovers. 

 

Of of course they are all in - just as Whaley was all in on EJ until he wasn’t - it cost the Bills coaching staff and was consuming of a ton of effort until finally a HC took over with more power.  KC will suffer only because the HC made this choice with his power and then de facto took over as GM as they moved Dorsey out.  Reid is all in because he has no choice - this is his guy.