Article about Mahomes trade, negotiations with Whaley for pick

[Zerovoltz]

http://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/24424/a-year-later-the-chiefs-would-do-it-all-over-again-with-patrick-mahomes-ii

[whatdrought]

I do not fully understand why Mahomes get's treated like a start when he hasn't really shown anything yet... (not attacking, just saying)

[BillsFan17]

The only thing I take from that article is the possibility of there being a gentleman's agreement on a trade before the draft.

 

That it's more and more plausbale that Buffalo and NYG have a blueprint in place.

[HiddenInLight]

Interesting insight on how those deals happen.  I wonder how many other deals he had ready going into the draft.  It would be really interesting to be a fly on the wall for the few weeks leading up to the draft.

[Shaw66]

Well, if Mahomes is as good as they say, and they seem to be pretty sure about it, Bills should have taken Mahomes last year, let him learn behind Taylor, and the Bills already would be all set.  

[Chuck Wagon]

Now it's time to repay the favor Dorsey....

[dave mcbride]

Words to live by if you're a Bills fan:

 

“We had him valued as the top quarterback. I can see this guy developing into a really good football player. So why not take a shot at it? This is a quarterback-driven league. You have to do these things to sustain the level you are at for 10 years down the road.”

[YoloinOhio]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

The only thing I take from that article is the possibility of there being a gentleman's agreement on a trade before the draft.

 

That it's more and more plausbale that Buffalo and NYG have a blueprint in place.

I think they have several in place with teams in the top 10, outside of Jets. Trigger will depend on who is there and when.

[Shaw66]

Just now, HiddenInLight said:

Interesting insight on how those deals happen.  I wonder how many other deals he had ready going into the draft.  It would be really interesting to be a fly on the wall for the few weeks leading up to the draft.

Not to put you down, but there isn't anything new in that article.   Whaley described the process in general on several occasions, and not just about this deal.    That's how GMs do it - they talk often about what they're looking for and what they made be willing to do, and as things solidify they get closer to committing.   Then, when the time is right, usually on draft day when the team moving up knows their guy is still on the board, they do it.   

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Well, if Mahomes is as good as they say, and they seem to be pretty sure about it, Bills should have taken Mahomes last year, let him learn behind Taylor, and the Bills already would be all set.  

I argued for Mahomes a lot and Watson some last year.  Just increases the pressure to get a franchise qb in this draft.  I really doubt Mahomes is going to fail, but you need both he and Watson to turn out poor to mediocre for passing on them not to be a factor in judging the acumen of the present regime, though Whaley's status and the flux of new folk are perhaps mitigating factors as well.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Words to live by if you're a Bills fan:

 

“We had him valued as the top quarterback. I can see this guy developing into a really good football player. So why not take a shot at it? This is a quarterback-driven league. You have to do these things to sustain the level you are at for 10 years down the road.”

 

The Bills didn't have him valued as a top QB.  Otherwise they would have taken him. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Doc said:

 

The Bills didn't have him valued as a top QB.  Otherwise they would have taken him. 

No, I know that. My point is that if the Bills regard a QB this year as a franchise qb, do whatever it takes to get him. 

[Doc]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

No, I know that. My point is that if the Bills regard a QB this year as a franchise qb, do whatever it takes to get him. 

 

Ah, got it.

[Chuck Wagon]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Bills didn't have him valued as a top QB.  Otherwise they would have taken him. 

 

 

IMO McD knew the whole FO would be turned over after the draft, he likely gets 1 real shot at QB, he was going to wait on the scouts he trusted to evaluate and identify the QB to stake it all on, they weren't in a position to decide that last year.

[Shaw66]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

I think they have several in place with teams in the top 10, outside of Jets. Trigger will depend on who is there and when.

I agree.   They know what the Giants want, they know what the Colts want, they know what Broncos, Bears, Bucs, Raiders want.   They've talked to 'em all.   Some of them are probably too pricey, some of them have possible deals shaped up with the Bills and are waiting to see if the Bills call on draft day.    Beane knows which guy(s) he wants and how much he's willing to give up for each.   He might be willing to  pay the price to go to 6 for one QB but only willing to pay the price to go to 9 for another.   

 

By now, Beane has the makings of a plan in place for how he's going to do this.   He knows what deals are out there to be had, and he knows which QBs, if any, he likes enough to move up.   

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

The only thing I take from that article is the possibility of there being a gentleman's agreement on a trade before the draft.

 

That it's more and more plausbale that Buffalo and NYG have a blueprint in place.

 

That is how most of these deals are done.  

 

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, if Mahomes is as good as they say, and they seem to be pretty sure about it, Bills should have taken Mahomes last year, let him learn behind Taylor, and the Bills already would be all set.  

 

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is how most of these deals are done.  

 

 

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

Believe me, I agree that is how most deals are started off. However, there is a large contingent of fans in both Jersey and NY that refuse to believe it's possible the NYG and the BB have something in place.

 

I just like seeing from a GMs mouth that trade parameters are set in advance.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I argued for Mahomes a lot and Watson some last year.  Just increases the pressure to get a franchise qb in this draft.  I really doubt Mahomes is going to fail, but you need both he and Watson to turn out poor to mediocre for passing on them not to be a factor in judging the acumen of the present regime, though Whaley's status and the flux of new folk are perhaps mitigating factors as well.

Yeah, I think it's pretty tough to hang the first round decision last year on McDermott.   I have to believe that he was in control, at least in the sense that he had veto power.   I don't know if he power to actually make the decision.   But even if he did have the power, he's working off all the data and evaluations that Whaley and Whaley's people did, and he pretty much had to trust that.   If Whaley didn't have Mahomes or Watson at or near 10, he wasn't going to do it.    

 

I think more importantly, it's now clear that McDermott had a total rebuild in mind.   Given that's what he was thinking, then he probably decided to trade back so the new GM (I'm sure he knew Whaley would be gone after the draft) would have more draft capital to shape the team he and McD want.   In other words, the trade back to 29 was the first step in a rebuild that McDermott knew would happen over the next two years.  

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

Terrible strategy that could easily backfire...

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Yeah, I think it's pretty tough to hang the first round decision last year on McDermott.   I have to believe that he was in control, at least in the sense that he had veto power.   I don't know if he power to actually make the decision.   But even if he did have the power, he's working off all the data and evaluations that Whaley and Whaley's people did, and he pretty much had to trust that.   If Whaley didn't have Mahomes or Watson at or near 10, he wasn't going to do it.    

 

I think more importantly, it's now clear that McDermott had a total rebuild in mind.   Given that's what he was thinking, then he probably decided to trade back so the new GM (I'm sure he knew Whaley would be gone after the draft) would have more draft capital to shape the team he and McD want.   In other words, the trade back to 29 was the first step in a rebuild that McDermott knew would happen over the next two years.  

It was McDermott and he did have the power....

[Zerovoltz]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

IMO McD knew the whole FO would be turned over after the draft, he likely gets 1 real shot at QB, he was going to wait on the scouts he trusted to evaluate and identify the QB to stake it all on, they weren't in a position to decide that last year.

 

The 2017 Draft year, for the Chiefs to get Mahomes, a lot of things had to line up just right.  The Bears taking Trubisky, then the Niners, opting not to like any of the QB, waiting on Cousins, The Jets, having only taking Hackenburg one season before, were still willing to wait on him, The Browns opted for Myles Garret at one.  The bills having the FO in flux, as you say, with McDermott not about to have his career determined by Doug Whaleys scouting and draft, weren't taking a QB.

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is how most of these deals are done.  

 

 

I wasn't a big Mahomer but I consistently said last year that punting on QBs when we were in position to take one when there was no way of knowing whether we would be in position again in 2018 was a very risky strategy.  

 

As a long suffering Cheifs fan...it was wonderful to see my team FINALLY identify a guy and then go get him when he was there.  I hope it works out for Buffalo this year.  I understand your pain.