Kirby Jackson Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Would you trade Watson today for any of the QB's in the 2018 class today? Probably so, because we saw him be special. I’m not sure that he ends up as the best of these 2 drafts or not. What he showed though is enough to know that he can be successful. He basically removes the risk at this point which is why I would.
BillsFan4 Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 Just now, dave mcbride said: Here you go!!! https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-the-very-upset-giants-tried-to-trade-up-for-patrick-mahomes/ Thanks. Well, damn (if true). lol
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Here you go!!! https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-the-very-upset-giants-tried-to-trade-up-for-patrick-mahomes/ It doesn’t say what was offered. So the turn down could have been for that reason.
dave mcbride Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It doesn’t say what was offered. So the turn down could have been for that reason. I've read other things with more detail on this board; I just can't remember when or by whom. They were trustworthy posters, though.
auburnbillsbacker Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, jmc12290 said: Would you trade Watson today for any of the QB's in the 2018 class today? I wouldn't. He looked amazing against NFL teams.
Doc Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said: I wouldn't. He looked amazing against NFL teams. I'd need to see more of his work, especially after getting injured. 2
Alphadawg7 Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, jmc12290 said: Ha ha ha you thought the entire 2017 class were second rounders in their own draft. Talk about doubling down on bad takes! No I didnt, I thought Mahomes a 2nd rounder in most years. I liked Trubisky and Watson, I just preferred going D last draft first...which we did...and got a stud and an extra first rounder. So we did exactly what I wanted us to do and it seems to have worked out pretty well so far. I literally said improve the D and we make the playoffs. We did just that and managed to get an extra first out of it and flip Tyrod for a great pick as well. So laugh all you want, but it worked out pretty well. And Mahomes would not be graded higher than the top 5 or 6 guys this year.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Either the answer is no, or Doug Whaley is incompetent. We only got one future 1st rd pick and a 2017 3rd in return for moving from a top 10 pick to 27. Brutal return compared to this year. The silver lining is that 27th played like a 10th
ColoradoBills Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, Doc said: I'd need to see more of his work, especially after getting injured. For sure. Defensive Coordinators don't even have a book on him yet. Way too early to tell on any QB with that few of snaps.
17 Josh Allen Posted April 12, 2018 Posted April 12, 2018 7 hours ago, wppete said: I think Mahomes would be the 6th QB behind Lamar Jackson if he was in this group. Your on some serious drugs if you believe that. 1
Rochesterfan Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Knowing what we know now the pick should have been Watson. All of the QBs were viewed as projects last year though. Also in hindsight, I wish we traded down with Houston instead of Kansas City. I don’t believe that was an option at the time. Houston figured the QBs would drop and they wouldn’t have to move. The KC move is what forced the Houston trade. 8 hours ago, dbflaBill said: A topic I havent seen talked about much. Is Mahomes a better prospect than what the Bills could possibly get this year? If so any trade up can/would look really foolish. We saw this question by Zerovoltz just a week or so ago. I think Mahomes is a lesser Allen and I would have him after Jackson and Rudolph. Watson I thought would be right in the group with Turbisky and just in front of Mahomes/Jackson/Rudolph. Without the NFL year to go on I would rank them: Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield - Top 5 Allen/Turbisky/Watson - Top 10-15 Jackson/Rudolph/Mahomes - Late 1st/Early second I think even at 22 we will be able to get a QB as good as Mahomes, but if you can get a top 3 guy - you blow the doors off last year. Edited April 13, 2018 by Rochesterfan 1
SouthNYfan Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 42 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: Your on some serious drugs if you believe that. Mcshay just put an interesting article up on ESPN with pre draft grades on the last decade on first round QBs, including this year's crop Scores are out of 100 99 Luck 98 Matt Ryan 97 James Winston Sam Bradford RGiii 96 Mark Sanchez 95 Matt Stafford Blaine Gabbert 94 Ryan tannehill Sam Darnold 93 Cam Newton Marcus Mariota 91 Blake Bortles Carson Wentz Jared Goff Josh Rosen Josh Allen 90 Jake locker Manziel Baker Mayfield 89 Flacco Bridgewater Trubisky 88 Deshaun Watson 86 Weeden 85 Christian ponder Paxton Lynch Pat mahomes Josh Freeman 84 Lamar Jackson 78 Tebow 76 EJ Manuel That's his list. Link to read it He talks about their pre-draft report and their eventual NFL career http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/23115321/todd-mcshay-nfl-draft-grades-every-first-round-qb-2008-plus-2018-top-qbs 1
Rochesterfan Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 8 hours ago, dbflaBill said: Projections? He went 10. Projections are media driven. An actual NFL team took him 10th. your statement doesnt make sense. What are are you even saying - none of this years guys have been drafted yet and all we have to compare is where they were slated to go compared to this years guys. Mahomes was projected to go about like Rudolph - late first, but a team that wanted a big strong QB with potential decided they would take the risk. If he and Allen were both there - I think KC chooses Allen all day and Mahomes would drop, but isn’t that the point of your OP or are you just trying to troll here.
Buffalo716 Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 I wouldn’t have Mahomes ahead of Rosen , Darnold, or Baker But ahead of Allen by a slim amount
vincec Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Either the answer is no, or Doug Whaley is incompetent. We only got one future 1st rd pick and a 2017 3rd in return for moving from a top 10 pick to 27. Brutal return compared to this year. You mean a top 10 pick like #12? 5 hours ago, rodneykm said: We will regret not taking Watson. You don't have to agree...just sit back and watch. I'll bet Rex Ryan would have taken Watson. Food for thought. Edited April 13, 2018 by vincec
Mango Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I’m not talking about who wanted who. I know they took who McD wanted. Im not even talking about who decided to try to trade down to get the 1st for next year. I’m sure that was McD too. I’m talkin about the return he got for moving from 10 to 27. That was Whaley’s doing. I think it’s more complicated than that. Market price is whatever somebody is willing to pay. I can’t imagine we left a much better deal on the table and took the KC deal. If they stayed true to their board, White was the get all along, or a group of players that they knew would be there. Then getting any return was better than staying put. I doubt we turned down 100 second rounders like the Jets just gave/ last years value is last years value. This years is this years. History will move the needle a little bit, but not a ton. I understand what you’re saying. I’m more upset that they trusted the scouts for the rest of the draft, but not a QB selection, on what I would guess was waiting for their new GM/scouting staff. We could have bled the roster the same as we did this year, gotten all the picks, and let Mahomes or Watson sit for a year, and used this draft to stock up.
Zerovoltz Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 7 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Mahomes received a 2nd round grade from the NFL's draft advisory board - https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/02/23/patrick-mahomes-received-2nd-round-grade-from-nfl-draft-advisory-board/ and wasnt even in the top 10 QBs (as far as draft grades go) from the last 3 drafts. This year he would most likely be in the 2nd tier of QBs discussion with guys like Mason Rudolph, Lamar Jackson etc. ***Biased KC Fan Post Warning*** First, let's draw a couple very important distinctions in this discussion. There is a difference between how the consensus "grades" a prospect, and how the prospect actually turns out to be, or is evaluated by the team that took him, the teams that passed him, the teams that wanted to trade up and couldn't. With that in mind this could almost be a two or three part question. 1. Based on PRE DRAFT GRADES this year and BEFORE the 2017 NFL draft, where would you rank Watson and Mahomes when mixed with the 2018 class? 2. Based on what you know about the 2017 QB's now, where would you rank them Watson and Mahomes when mixed with the 2018 class? 3. Knowing everything you know now about how the season turned out, who you drafted at 27, what pick you got trading back, and what the landscape looks like to get your QB this year, would you still do that trade? or Would you undo the trade and take Mahomes or Watson? ....here is where you should be warned about my bias....so take the following with that information in mind as I attempt an objective take on this. Regardless of the consensus draft "GRADE", the Chiefs clearly rated him higher than a 2nd round caliber player....and because the Giants, Saints and Texans also had him rated higher than that, the Chiefs, knowing this is their target CORRECTLY identified a trade partner to get to a point high enough up in that draft to get him. With the idea that KC had identified Mahomes, understood there were others who had come to the same or similar conclusions that were NOT IN LINE WITH CONSENSUS DRAFT GRADES, they drafted him where he had to be drafted if you wanted him. Mahomes may therefore have had a consensus ranking of "2nd Round" but the actual market was he was top 10-15 round 1. All a pre draft grade does is set a guide to media, fans, and a very general broad look overall for front office types. Front offices/GMs/scouts etc...are paid to be right, not paid to contribute their thoughts and ideas into a pool so that a consensus can be established that everyone just follows. Having had all of 2017 to evaluate Mahomes further, see him in practice, work on his perceived and/or real issues, the same staff that drafted him, and the same staff who had won with pro bowl QB Alex Smith, decided that what Mahomes has shown them since they drafted was enough to trade Smith away. ....They traded away Alex Smith, who led the NFL in Qb Rating, won two straight division titles, and wasn't especially expensive considering the QB market we are now in. Smith had another year on his contract. They didn't have to trade him. Now, for those of you who remain skeptical because you haven't seen enough....you are absolutely entitled and justified in your thinking....I would simply say that you haven't seen enough because you didn't see him in the Denver game, or you haven't seen him in practive, or you didn't see his pre season (YES, I KNOW IT WAS PRESEASON) and you haven't heard Ried talk about what he has in Mahomes...or most likely, you've gotten bits and pieces of some of this at best. That is fine, and to be expected. I don't know the day to day intricacies of Buffalo and I couldn't attest to Tyrod Taylor for example, except reading what folks here might say, or reading his stats....I may have an opinion about Taylor, but it wouldn't be all that well informed. Having said that...and again, I am a biased Chiefs fan (one who has seen three decades of bad to mediocre QB play) and Mahomes is different, he is special. The scouts missed on his grade but Andy Ried didn't. Totally fair that most folks here can't buy in based on what I am saying here...but 4 games into 2018, your eyes will all be wide open. http://www.nfl.com/videos/baldys-breakdowns/0ap3000000905916/Why-Patrick-Mahomes-is-ready-to-lead-the-Chiefs-Film-Review https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/3/30/17180500/the-moment-andy-reid-knew-he-had-something-special-in-patrick-mahomes http://buffalonews.com/2018/03/01/combine-notebook-sean-mcdermott-thinks-patrick-mahomes-is-going-to-have-a-heck-of-a-career/
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 Trade bad: Whaley’s fault. Trade good: McBeane. personally, I wanted both Mahomes and Watson. I also feel like Rosen and Darnold are “safer” prospects than Mahomes and Watson so I would rate them higher. Then, I’d have Watson and Mahomes. My list: 1) Rosen 2) Darnold 3) Watson 4) Mahomes 5) Mayfield 6) Allen/ Jackson 7) Rudolph
YoloinOhio Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 53 minutes ago, vincec said: You mean a top 10 pick like #12? I'll bet Rex Ryan would have taken Watson. Food for thought. The Bills picked 10th
Doc Posted April 13, 2018 Posted April 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mango said: I think it’s more complicated than that. Market price is whatever somebody is willing to pay. I can’t imagine we left a much better deal on the table and took the KC deal. If they stayed true to their board, White was the get all along, or a group of players that they knew would be there. Then getting any return was better than staying put. I doubt we turned down 100 second rounders like the Jets just gave/ last years value is last years value. This years is this years. History will move the needle a little bit, but not a ton. I understand what you’re saying. I’m more upset that they trusted the scouts for the rest of the draft, but not a QB selection, on what I would guess was waiting for their new GM/scouting staff. We could have bled the roster the same as we did this year, gotten all the picks, and let Mahomes or Watson sit for a year, and used this draft to stock up. If McD were the only one involved, it's possible he might have traded the 10th pick to Reid for a lesser offer, since he was his mentor. But Pegs at least would have known about all trade offers and since he doesn't and shouldn't care what Reid thinks, he would have put the kibosh on it. It's also been reported that Houston didn't enter the fray until the Chefs officially traded up for Mahomes, so it isn't like they chose one over the other. Unfortunately Houston tanked and the Chefs didn't, but what can you do? And when you drop down that far, you're taking a major risk in trying to get the guy you want. Luckily White was there and he turned out to be a fantastic pick. Now as for the QB's, there were a lot of red flags on Mahomes and Watson. So much so that despite 4 of the first 6 teams needing a QB, only one took one: the Bears, and they took Trubisky. So it's not like the Bills were alone in their assessment of them. But all it takes is one team to like a guy and take a chance on him. The book is still way out on Mahomes and largely out on Watson, but there at least was something there before he got hurt. The problem is that most young QB's seem to not amount to much when they get injured early in their careers (and remember, he got injured during a non-contact practice, so it could have happened on any team), so that bears watching.
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