Can we develop a QB?

[HOUSE]

1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

No. I think Peterman may well turn out to be a good QB. I wasn't using him as an example of a QB who failed. I was using him as an example of a coach who failed.

 

I think that game could weigh on Peterman. He has a monkey on his back. And it turned the bulk of the fan base against him.

 

And it was because they started him in a big game, away, with 3 days practice, and a HORRIBLE game plan suited for a savvy veteran. And then to top it off they didn't even put a spy on Bosa. Bosa keeps getting in, they didn't even have a back just follow him and be sure he was always double teamed.

 

They couldn't have done a much crummier job if they did it on purpose.

 

To put it real starkly, McDermott was a jackass to let that happen. And so I have some concern that it wasn't a single instance of being a jackass, but rather that it will be a trait that the new QB will also get to experience.

 

 

 

I forgive you ...lol

[BadLandsMeanie]

7 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I honestly would like to know, not asking you to provide an answer but just curious, how many QB's have actually been "developed"?  Is there a list of QB's that really needed to be fixed and refined before they were ready to play or were they just at some point thrown in and everything clicked for them? 

 

In the last decade I can think of a player that sat and developed because they needed to sit and develop as opposed to, they already had a starting QB in place and they weren't gonna put someone else in because they were paying him X amount of money.

Perhaps not coincidentally, in the last decade they also just can't seem to find anybody good to draft. All these guys just fail.

 

Maybe because the NFL does just as you say. Stick a guy in or not depending on whatever the circumstances are.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I forgive you ...lol

Whew! Thank you Mr House (Ballard?)

[HOUSE]

1 minute ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Perhaps not coincidentally, in the last decade they also just can't seem to find anybody good to draft. All these guys just fail.

 

Maybe because the NFL does just as you say. Stick a guy in or not depending on whatever the circumstances are.

 

 

 

Whew! Thank you Mr House (Ballard?)

I think the constant changing of head coaches made it nearly impossible to settle in and improve.

[snamsnoops]

50 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

We couldn’t even game plan around TT. Good luck to the new rookie. 

pretty sure that is why Dennison got canned so fast!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

John DeFilippo is considered the best right now. 1st round QBs on his resume are, JaMarcus Russell, Mark Sanchez, Johnny Manziel, Derek Carr, and Carson Wentz. 

 

No one is a QB guru, it's all about the QB you're coaching. He's the perfect example. 

 

The Bills won't ruin a great QB. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by TheTruthHurts

[RocCityRoller]

with this O-line and our terrible WRs, no.

 

The answer is no.

[fansince88]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

What about eye height in relationship to the top of their head?

So, Like Payton Manning size forehead? 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, Needle said:

It is a simple question that I have been thinking about for months now. I have no answer to it yet but I am curious to what others think.

 

1. I am of the opinion that we trade up at all costs. I don't think whether we can properly develop a QB or not should determine whether or not we try. You have to be in it to win it and you don't win sitting back.

 

2. My fear is not whether or not we can get our hands on a talented rookie QB, it's whether or not we can develop him. Do we have the correct coaching staff for this? How quickly can we re-stock a shell of an offensive roster? Will our QB be forced to start too early because of the lack of a proven starter on the roster?

 

3. At what point does a talented QB outweigh his surroundings and develop regardless? Is there a guy like that in this draft?

 

4. I am a Rosen fan. I haven't said it anywhere yet but I have liked him the best for awhile now. I like his intelligence and accuracy. I also like his personality, in my experience the best leaders are people think outside the box.

 

I defer to anyone who wants to weigh in on the QB development questions. I know many here will have more knowledge than me.

 

 

If Im comparing the QB expertise of McDermott/Daboll/Culley against say...

 

Garrett/Linehan/Wilson in Dallas

Pederson/Reich/DeFillippo in Philly

McVay/LaFleur/Olson in LA

 

Then I'd say, no, we do not have the staff to properly develop a young QB.

 

It's been my biggest concern since the Bills hired a Defensive guy as HC. That concerned doubled when we hired a career WR Coach as QB Coach.

 

I'm hoping Daboll can pull it out. From what we saw in the National Championship game and what he got out of Tua Tagovailoa, I'm cautiously hopeful.

[somnus00]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

What about eye height in relationship to the top of their head?

 

That would've eliminated Peyton Manning.

[Needle]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

If Im comparing the QB expertise of McDermott/Daboll/Culley against say...

 

Garrett/Linehan/Wilson in Dallas

Pederson/Reich/DeFillippo in Philly

McVay/LaFleur/Olson in LA

 

Then I'd say, no, we do not have the staff to properly develop a young QB.

 

It's been my biggest concern since the Bills hired a Defensive guy as HC. That concerned doubled when we hired a career WR Coach as QB Coach.

 

I'm hoping Daboll can pull it out. From what we saw in the National Championship game and what he got out of Tua Tagovailoa, I'm cautiously hopeful.

I share the same concerns as you. The QB coach was a strange hire. I am still cautiously optimistic too but it requires a lot of blind faith. I guess it mostly depends on the player they get. 

 

Nobody has developed a stud QB without having a stud prospect. I do think you can screw up a good QB by mismanaging him.

 

 

 

I

[Needle]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

People use the term all the time.  But I'm not sure I really understand what people mean by "develop a quarterback."

Seriously.

 

Every team has coaches who adjust/work on helping a QB with his mechanics.

Every team has coaches who work with QBs on learning schemes, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

 

I've always heard claims that Buffalo "doesn't know" how to develop a Quarterback.  I don't know where this theory comes from.  There is no evidence to suggest that JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel or anyone else we've drafted in the past 20 years would have been more successful with a different coaching staff.  In fact, all of those players continued to struggle after leaving the Bills and never regained a starting job.

 

Some QBs get "thrown to the wolves" in Week 1.  Some sit the bench and "develop" behind a bridge/veteran.  There are numerous examples of both methods succeeding.  There are numerous examples of both methods failing.  I think the key is getting the right guy under center FIRST, and THEN working to build the team around him.  If you do that, everything will fall into place.

 

I don't think you can coach up a guy and make him great. You can however mismanage a QB prospect and not get the most out of him. We have seen QBs thrust into action too soon and get shell shocked. We have also seen QBs who have had new offensive schemes to learn year after year. Outside of the all time greats, I think the coaching atmosphere can have a huge impact on a QBs trajectory. 

 

An interesting story to this point, was the success of Jeff Fishers  former QBs this past year.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Needle

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, Needle said:

I share the same concerns as you. The QB coach was a strange hire. I am still cautiously optimistic too but it requires a lot of blind faith. I guess it mostly depends on the player they get. 

 

Nobody has developed a stud QB without having a stud prospect. I do think you can screw up a good QB by mismanaging him.

 

 

 

I

 

Im trying to give Culley a shot since he's so well-respected around the league. I just wish we had some former QBs around to help out.

 

3 minutes ago, Needle said:

I don't think you can coach up a guy and make him great. You can however mismanage a QB prospect and not get the most out of him. We have seen QBs thrust into action too soon and get shell shocked. We have also seen QBs who have had new offensive schemes to learn year after year. Outside of the all time greats, I think the coaching atmosphere can have a huge impact on a QBs trajectory.

 

 

 

 

McNabb is the first that comes to mind. Reid put a lot of work into him, and funny enough so did the vet QB they brought in to teach him the ropes (Doug Pederson).

 

[Boatdrinks]

6 hours ago, mjt328 said:

People use the term all the time.  But I'm not sure I really understand what people mean by "develop a quarterback."

Seriously.

 

Every team has coaches who adjust/work on helping a QB with his mechanics.

Every team has coaches who work with QBs on learning schemes, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

 

I've always heard claims that Buffalo "doesn't know" how to develop a Quarterback.  I don't know where this theory comes from.  There is no evidence to suggest that JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel or anyone else we've drafted in the past 20 years would have been more successful with a different coaching staff.  In fact, all of those players continued to struggle after leaving the Bills and never regained a starting job.

 

Some QBs get "thrown to the wolves" in Week 1.  Some sit the bench and "develop" behind a bridge/veteran.  There are numerous examples of both methods succeeding.  There are numerous examples of both methods failing.  I think the key is getting the right guy under center FIRST, and THEN working to build the team around him.  If you do that, everything will fall into place.

 

Exactly. " Developing" a QB is vastly overused term and doesn't really exist. The Bills have had respected QB coaches before and it hasn't mattered. Simply put, you can't polish a turd. Sure, you need smart coaching with scheme and what you are asking a QB to do. Take Roethlisberger, for example. He was asked to throw a very limited number of passes per game early on, then gradually relied on more. The guy was going to be an excellent QB regardless. You're either good or you're not. It's simple as that. It's not a good idea to give a rook too much too soon or throw them to the wolves. They need to be coached and broughtt along, like the Texans did with Watson before he was injured. Smart coaches know how to use talent. A QB can improve at certain things over time, but if they don't have " it" a coach won't make a damn bit of difference. Every QB is not " a piece of clay waiting to be molded" as some would be led to believe. Many just suck when they get to the NFL level. 

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Needle said:

It is a simple question that I have been thinking about for months now. I have no answer to it yet but I am curious to what others think.

 

1. I am of the opinion that we trade up at all costs. I don't think whether we can properly develop a QB or not should determine whether or not we try. You have to be in it to win it and you don't win sitting back.

 

2. My fear is not whether or not we can get our hands on a talented rookie QB, it's whether or not we can develop him. Do we have the correct coaching staff for this? How quickly can we re-stock a shell of an offensive roster? Will our QB be forced to start too early because of the lack of a proven starter on the roster?

 

3. At what point does a talented QB outweigh his surroundings and develop regardless? Is there a guy like that in this draft?

 

4. I am a Rosen fan. I haven't said it anywhere yet but I have liked him the best for awhile now. I like his intelligence and accuracy. I also like his personality, in my experience the best leaders are people think outside the box.

 

I defer to anyone who wants to weigh in on the QB development questions. I know many here will have more knowledge than me.

 

 

 

Very worthwhile question that to me doesn't have a clear answer.

 

I'm absolutely sure they're aware of this concern. But have they put a good system / foundation in place? Hard to say. Hope so.

 

8 hours ago, mjt328 said:

People use the term all the time.  But I'm not sure I really understand what people mean by "develop a quarterback."

Seriously.

 

Every team has coaches who adjust/work on helping a QB with his mechanics.

Every team has coaches who work with QBs on learning schemes, watching film, reading defenses, etc.

 

I've always heard claims that Buffalo "doesn't know" how to develop a Quarterback.  I don't know where this theory comes from.  There is no evidence to suggest that JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel or anyone else we've drafted in the past 20 years would have been more successful with a different coaching staff.  In fact, all of those players continued to struggle after leaving the Bills and never regained a starting job.

 

Some QBs get "thrown to the wolves" in Week 1.  Some sit the bench and "develop" behind a bridge/veteran.  There are numerous examples of both methods succeeding.  There are numerous examples of both methods failing.  I think the key is getting the right guy under center FIRST, and THEN working to build the team around him.  If you do that, everything will fall into place.

 

 

 

Concerning Losman, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that he wasn't developed properly. Plenty. It's not totally convincing. Either way. Nor could it ever be. This is a deeply complex process.

 

But the Bills put Losman in before he could win the QB battle with Bledsoe, worked with him, found a system in which he greatly elevated his play and looked promising, and then promptly in the offseason brought in a new offensive coach and system that pretty much eliminated the areas of strength from his game and tried to get him to conform to a system which stressed the areas he'd never been good at.

 

That's freaking awful. And it surely made things much more difficult for him, no question. No way to know if he'd ever have become a franchise guy even if he'd been handled perfectly. Perhaps not. But they handled and developed him very poorly indeed.

 

 

 

 

And yes, there are numerous cases of both sitting a guy and not sitting him succeeding. This is almost certainly because each guy is different, having different needs, and a good development process certainly would involve correctly identifying what your particular guy needs. 

 

Some guys will never be good enough, no matter how much development they get, some, like JaMarcus Russell, won't take the coaching they're given. And some are good enough and ready enough that their needs are relatively minimal. But there's a very large middle ground where guys who need development either get it or don't and this greatly impacts their chances for success.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Thurman#1

[T master]

I have been a Rosen fan all along but i don't believe he will be there & pray the powers that be don't blow all the draft capital to move up to number 2 to get another QB that isn't a proven QB like Allen .

 

Unlike a lot of Bills fans i think AJ will be very good as the Bills QB allowing them to get a rookie & let him learn behind him & i (again unlike many Bills fans) see the possibility of AJ being our franchise guy I have always liked what i saw from him ever since he was in college.

 

I think there "could be" other talent in this QB class that we could get that with time may be a better value with good upside like the guy from Ky. if there isn't another QB the Bills get earlier on in the draft ...

[ddaryl]

Quote

Can we develop a QB?

 

 

Can you make a shoe smell