Needle Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 It is a simple question that I have been thinking about for months now. I have no answer to it yet but I am curious to what others think. 1. I am of the opinion that we trade up at all costs. I don't think whether we can properly develop a QB or not should determine whether or not we try. You have to be in it to win it and you don't win sitting back. 2. My fear is not whether or not we can get our hands on a talented rookie QB, it's whether or not we can develop him. Do we have the correct coaching staff for this? How quickly can we re-stock a shell of an offensive roster? Will our QB be forced to start too early because of the lack of a proven starter on the roster? 3. At what point does a talented QB outweigh his surroundings and develop regardless? Is there a guy like that in this draft? 4. I am a Rosen fan. I haven't said it anywhere yet but I have liked him the best for awhile now. I like his intelligence and accuracy. I also like his personality, in my experience the best leaders are people think outside the box. I defer to anyone who wants to weigh in on the QB development questions. I know many here will have more knowledge than me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 No I don't personally believe we have anyone that can develop a QB. Hopefully we get Rosen who is already well polished and works with his own people including Tom House. If they think they are going to draft someone like Allen and develop him then good luck. I don't know who they think on their staff is that gifted of a QB coach/developer of young talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 not if the guy has below average skills, small hands, bad field vision or can't read a defense. Small feet is ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 We did once, his name was Joe Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocCityRoller Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 No, any QB behind this trash OL and WR/TE corps will look terrible. It could be Tom F*&^ Brady and they would suck. That is my point exactly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I love Dan Orlovsky's writing and clips and wish they'd sign him as QB coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Needle said: It is a simple question that I have been thinking about for months now. I have no answer to it yet but I am curious to what others think. 1. I am of the opinion that we trade up at all costs. I don't think whether we can properly develop a QB or not should determine whether or not we try. You have to be in it to win it and you don't win sitting back. 2. My fear is not whether or not we can get our hands on a talented rookie QB, it's whether or not we can develop him. Do we have the correct coaching staff for this? How quickly can we re-stock a shell of an offensive roster? Will our QB be forced to start too early because of the lack of a proven starter on the roster? 3. At what point does a talented QB outweigh his surroundings and develop regardless? Is there a guy like that in this draft? 4. I am a Rosen fan. I haven't said it anywhere yet but I have liked him the best for awhile now. I like his intelligence and accuracy. I also like his personality, in my experience the best leaders are people think outside the box. I defer to anyone who wants to weigh in on the QB development questions. I know many here will have more knowledge than me. What I think is that, as a team, you absolutely, positively MUST have the attitude that you're going to develop a rookie QB, not just throw him in the deep end and see if he can swim. Whether it turns out that you successfully "develop" a rookie or not will just come down the pike when it does, whether that's immediately or in the future. But think about it like this: we've never seen McBeane develop a QB because (if we draft a rookie), this will be their first! So I will give them the benefit of the doubt, because they have gone against the grain so many times already and proven people wrong (including me) who thought their moves were questionable at best. But I understand your concerns, given our general history as a franchise. I am also a Rosen fan, btw. I concur with your assessment. And in terms of the QB least needing "development", well, whatever others may criticize him for, Rosen is certainly the most "Pro-Ready" QB in the draft. My concern now is, with Incognito retiring, what is our OL going to look like? A crap OL is the surest recipe for a rookie QB to not succeed, or for that matter, any QB at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, HOUSE said: not if the guy has below average skills, small hands, bad field vision or can't read a defense. Small feet is ok What about eye height in relationship to the top of their head? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 How did it work out for Peterman? Based on that, right now I would say no. However McCarron being here is a good step in the right direction because he can shoulder the load for a season at least. On the other hand the most important thing for a new QB is his offensive line. So on that metric it would seem they have no chance at all to develop a QB. We will have to wait and see how the line looks when the games start though. Maybe it won't be as bad. The running game is a plus with Shady. Receivers not so much. And who knows about Dabol. I have no idea. All in all right now, I would say we aren't a good environment to develop a QB unless they can draft Gumby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, The Wiz said: What about eye height in relationship to the top of their head? Eyes are good....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 People use the term all the time. But I'm not sure I really understand what people mean by "develop a quarterback." Seriously. Every team has coaches who adjust/work on helping a QB with his mechanics. Every team has coaches who work with QBs on learning schemes, watching film, reading defenses, etc. I've always heard claims that Buffalo "doesn't know" how to develop a Quarterback. I don't know where this theory comes from. There is no evidence to suggest that JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel or anyone else we've drafted in the past 20 years would have been more successful with a different coaching staff. In fact, all of those players continued to struggle after leaving the Bills and never regained a starting job. Some QBs get "thrown to the wolves" in Week 1. Some sit the bench and "develop" behind a bridge/veteran. There are numerous examples of both methods succeeding. There are numerous examples of both methods failing. I think the key is getting the right guy under center FIRST, and THEN working to build the team around him. If you do that, everything will fall into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Since that has never been successfully done by the BILLS before, why would we think it's a viable option now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 We couldn’t even game plan around TT. Good luck to the new rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: How did it work out for Peterman? Based on that, right now I would say no. However McCarron being here is a good step in the right direction because he can shoulder the load for a season at least. On the other hand the most important thing for a new QB is his offensive line. So on that metric it would seem they have no chance at all to develop a QB. We will have to wait and see how the line looks when the games start though. Maybe it won't be as bad. The running game is a plus with Shady. Receivers not so much. And who knows about Dabol. I have no idea. All in all right now, I would say we aren't a good environment to develop a QB unless they can draft Gumby. 28 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: I am surprised at you BLM, please don't tell me you are listening to the crowd that believe one games is a career. Petermen is a bad example of a QB who failed, he did not fail. He may have played to soon. EJ is an example of a guy who failed, never got better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I am extremely nervous about our QB coach, Dave Culley. He has an excellent reputation...as a WR coach. He came here from KC. What I believe happened was (and no proof just a theory) Andy Reid agreed to give McDermott a glowing recommendation (which I have read he indeed did do) in exchange for McDermott hiring Culley as QB coach. When he came here, Reid made it a point to say the reason he was ok with Culley leaving was because Culley wanted to get his resume built for an eventual HC position. While Culley may not be the most experienced with QBs I have to believe that him coming here with a rookie QB is his big shot. And he has to know that. If whatever QB we draft works out it would really help him to bigger things. Perhaps an OC position down the road leading to that HC job he wants. Now, I don't know if Culley is a good QB coach. I've never been in a QB room with him or been on a field to hear his coaching. But when a guy has aspirations and a chance I do know if he fails, it won't be lack of effort. I believe he will go above and beyond to make his goals come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 I have been thinking the same thing. We have no one that has a history of developing quarterbacks on our staff. will drafting a franchise quarterback be a waste if we don't know what to do with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, mjt328 said: People use the term all the time. But I'm not sure I really understand what people mean by "develop a quarterback." Seriously. Every team has coaches who adjust/work on helping a QB with his mechanics. Every team has coaches who work with QBs on learning schemes, watching film, reading defenses, etc. I've always heard claims that Buffalo "doesn't know" how to develop a Quarterback. I don't know where this theory comes from. There is no evidence to suggest that JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel or anyone else we've drafted in the past 20 years would have been more successful with a different coaching staff. In fact, all of those players continued to struggle after leaving the Bills and never regained a starting job. Some QBs get "thrown to the wolves" in Week 1. Some sit the bench and "develop" behind a bridge/veteran. There are numerous examples of both methods succeeding. There are numerous examples of both methods failing. I think the key is getting the right guy under center FIRST, and THEN working to build the team around him. If you do that, everything will fall into place. And then you have teams that have a head coach or offensive coordinator that want to run THEIR system regardless of who the QB is. I get the feeling that we have had a bunch of those types of coaches over the past decade. Even wannstache took our defense and turned it into crap because that was HIS defense and HIS scheme. I think McD is a little more fluid is his approach of coaching and doesn't care(as much as other coaches) what he wants to run but wants to get the players into the scheme that fit it. Edited April 11, 2018 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said: I have been thinking the same thing. We have no one that has a history of developing quarterbacks on our staff. will drafting a franchise quarterback be a waste if we don't know what to do with him? Correct answer! Why people think that this is going to be any different from what happened with some of the other high draft picks the Bills have squandered over the years is completely beyond me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said: I have been thinking the same thing. We have no one that has a history of developing quarterbacks on our staff. will drafting a franchise quarterback be a waste if we don't know what to do with him? I honestly would like to know, not asking you to provide an answer but just curious, how many QB's have actually been "developed"? Is there a list of QB's that really needed to be fixed and refined before they were ready to play or were they just at some point thrown in and everything clicked for them? In the last decade I can think of a player that sat and developed because they needed to sit and develop as opposed to, they already had a starting QB in place and they weren't gonna put someone else in because they were paying him X amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, HOUSE said: 12 minutes ago, HOUSE said: I am surprised at you BLM, please don't tell me you are listening to the crowd that believe one games is a career. Petermen is a bad example of a QB who failed, he did not fail. He may have played to soon. EJ is an example of a guy who failed, never got better. No. I think Peterman may well turn out to be a good QB. I wasn't using him as an example of a QB who failed. I was using him as an example of a coach who failed. I think that game could weigh on Peterman. He has a monkey on his back. And it turned the bulk of the fan base against him. And it was because they started him in a big game, away, with 3 days practice, and a HORRIBLE game plan suited for a savvy veteran. And then to top it off they didn't even put a spy on Bosa. Bosa keeps getting in, they didn't even have a back just follow him and be sure he was always double teamed. They couldn't have done a much crummier job if they did it on purpose. To put it real starkly, McDermott was a jackass to let that happen. And so I have some concern that it wasn't a single instance of being a jackass, but rather that it will be a trait that the new QB will also get to experience. 55 minutes ago, The Wiz said: What about eye height in relationship to the top of their head? Ah, you are a bright pupil young Wiz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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