DC Tom Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 4 hours ago, njbuff said: Tucker Carlson did a one minute bit at the end of his show about pandas if you bothered to look it up. So it must be bad because Carlson doesn’t tow the Dem company line. Thanks anyways. TOE the line. Toe. Not tow. Goddammit.
Tiberius Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rob's House said: The media's attempt to connect Trump to something he has nothing to do with is a far greater demonstration of journalistic integrity. When the bombshell drops about Trump's mechanic selling drugs or his barber getting busted for tax evasion, you can trust Fox News will do an expose on the Mexican Staring Frog of Southern Sri Lanka to cover it up. You gonna visit him in jail?
njbuff Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, DC Tom said: TOE the line. Toe. Not tow. Goddammit. Toh 16 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You gonna visit him in jail? LMAO
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 Dear Mr President. Stop whining and blaming everyone else and Do Your Job. (honestly and legally) Concerned Citizen Media media media ..... His Twitter account does just as good as the biased media on getting crap out there.
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: Dear Mr President. Stop whining and blaming everyone else and Do Your Job. (honestly and legally) Concerned Citizen The raid is tied to suspected criminality unrelated to the Trump/Russia probe. Do you find to be at all problematic that the FBI has performed an end run around attorney-client privilege, a necessary hallmark of our entire system of jurisprudence, in order to gain access to information about a person investigating/prosecuting wide spread malfeasance and corruption in that agency? 1
TH3 Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Dear Mr President. Stop whining and blaming everyone else and Do Your Job. (honestly and legally) Concerned Citizen Media media media ..... His Twitter account does just as good as the biased media on getting crap out there. The primary problem with the 45 is he has ideas...but he has no concept, idea, grasp as to how to actually do his job... Just now, TakeYouToTasker said: The raid is tied to suspected criminality unrelated to the Trump/Russia probe. Do you find to be at all problematic that the FBI has performed an end run around attorney-client privilege, a necessary hallmark of our entire system of jurisprudence, in order to gain access to information about a person investigating/prosecuting wide spread malfeasance and corruption in that agency? Didn't 45 say Cohen wasn't his lawyer? Which is it? 1
HappyDays Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: If that 150K is what they are looking at then I have to ask if they raided the Clinton attorney's offices based on the $13,000,000 donations from the same guy to them? Because that isn't how laws work. If there is evidence that Trump used that money for campaign funds, that will be investigated. If there was evidence Hillary used money from the Clinton foundation for campaign funds, that would also be investigated. As an example the Trump Foundation was fined by the IRS a few years ago for making an illegal donation to a Florida AG'S campaign fund:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/01/trump-pays-irs-a-penalty-for-his-foundation-violating-rules-with-gift-to-florida-attorney-general/ There was no criminal charges because they were able to claim that "a series of mistakes" led to the donation. In other words their defense was that it was accidental. This is pretty transparently not true, but criminal investigators have a lot of burdens to overcome and they couldn't in that case. There isn't much news about this investigation into the Ukrainian donation so I don't know if anything will come it. It's completely separate from the raid on Cohen's residence. But the mere fact they are investigating it doesn't preclude that all previous donations to every presidential candidate's foundations must also be under investigation. 56 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: As I understand it (I am not an attorney and do not play one on the internet) anything "interesting" found on Trump in his attorney's offices would be difficult to introduce into court so what purpose is the raid? Other than headlines, I mean? The fact that you're asking this question tells me you still don't understand what happened. The FBI raid on Cohen might have nothing to do with Trump. They're investigating Cohen for possible crimes that he committed. Completely separate from anything Mueller is investigating. Unless Trump was committing crimes with Cohen in which case he is also screwed. 1
boyst Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said: Oh yeah? The institution of the Presidency is where you draw the line? And I'm sure you harbored no such thoughts about his predecessor. You're part of the "swamp." Come in. Drop a stupid statement and then don't return. It doesn't do you much justice. You're a smart guy, Coach, different opinions are welcome. But, if you're coming to PPP to engage the old curmudgeons with #feelings and nonsense you won't get far. Trump has done far less, if anything, to degrade this country than Mueller, the IC and all of those behind this coup. At the end of the day there is one thing that has been tremendously unexpected: Trump still stands.
HappyDays Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Do you find to be at all problematic that the FBI has performed an end run around attorney-client privilege How can you possibly know this?
Tiberius Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 It's my understanding that they have two teams of agents that have a firewall between them. One set of agents goes through the information and separates documents that can have evidence and the others are client protected. So only the documents that are part of the case would get used.
Buffalo_Gal Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Because that isn't how laws work. If there is evidence that Trump used that money for campaign funds, that will be investigated. If there was evidence Hillary used money from the Clinton foundation for campaign funds, that would also be investigated. As an example the Trump Foundation was fined by the IRS a few years ago for making an illegal donation to a Florida AG'S campaign fund:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/01/trump-pays-irs-a-penalty-for-his-foundation-violating-rules-with-gift-to-florida-attorney-general/ There was no criminal charges because they were able to claim that "a series of mistakes" led to the donation. In other words their defense was that it was accidental. This is pretty transparently not true, but criminal investigators have a lot of burdens to overcome and they couldn't in that case. There isn't much news about this investigation into the Ukrainian donation so I don't know if anything will come it. It's completely separate from the raid on Cohen's residence. But the mere fact they are investigating it doesn't preclude that all previous donations to every presidential candidate's foundations must also be under investigation. The fact that you're asking this question tells me you still don't understand what happened. The FBI raid on Cohen might have nothing to do with Trump. They're investigating Cohen for possible crimes that he committed. Completely separate from anything Mueller is investigating. Unless Trump was committing crimes with Cohen in which case he is also screwed. Soooo he spent at least $66M of his own money (I could only find concrete primary numbers) on his campaign, and yet it is supposed to be believable that his campaign used $130K not of his own money to pay off a hooker? Edited to add: "know what happened" - nope, I do not "know" what happened. At this point very few people do. Was it a raid for money laundering? Was it a raid to isolate the President? Was it a raid for headlines? What process was played out to conduct the raid? At this point, there are many more questions than answers. But few people know the whys, the procedures, and the repercussions. Edited April 10, 2018 by Buffalo_Gal
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, baskin said: Didn't 45 say Cohen wasn't his lawyer? Which is it? No, Cohen's lawyer said that Cohen wasn't acting in the capacity of lawyer to Donald Trump as relates to the Stormy Daniels NDA, and was instead acting as a consulting representative of Essential Consultants LLC, which is the body which made the payments to Ms. Daniels. Cohen is President Trump's long time attorney, however, as we all know; and this is a grotesque example of an agency whose heads and body are currently under investigation doing an end run around the protections our legal system affords the accused in order to gain leverage over a sitting President. This should be viewed as wildly problematic to anyone interested in the basic concept of justice and a free society. 1
Warren Zevon Posted April 10, 2018 Author Posted April 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: No, Cohen's lawyer said that Cohen wasn't acting in the capacity of lawyer to Donald Trump as relates to the Stormy Daniels NDA, and was instead acting as a consulting representative of Essential Consultants LLC, which is the body which made the payments to Ms. Daniels. Cohen is President Trump's long time attorney, however, as we all know; and this is a grotesque example of an agency whose heads and body are currently under investigation doing an end run around the protections our legal system affords the accused in order to gain leverage over a sitting President. This should be viewed as wildly problematic to anyone interested in the basic concept of justice and a free society. What would be problematic is Mueller sweeping potential crimes under the rug.
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 14 minutes ago, HappyDays said: How can you possibly know this? Because that's the outcome. The FBI now has in it's possession all legal documents related to Donald Trump that had been in Michael Cohen's possession. Documents that they, without this raid, never would have been able to access, because they were protected by attorney-client privilege. Much like the string of FISA abuses, centered around Carter Page, which were necessary for the agency to illegally surveil the President; the FBI has done it again.
HappyDays Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Soooo he spent at least $66M of his own money (I could only find concrete primary numbers) on his campaign, and yet it is supposed to be believable that his campaign used $130K not of his own money to pay off a hooker? I see that you're very eager to jump to conclusions on this. Sorry but we don't know everything yet. We don't know the exact charges being brought against Cohen, we don't know the reasoning for executing a search warrant over a subpoena, we don't know which - if any - communications between Trump and Cohen will be privileged, etc.
Warren Zevon Posted April 10, 2018 Author Posted April 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Because that's the outcome. The FBI now has in it's possession all legal documents related to Donald Trump that had been in Michael Cohen's possession. Documents that they, without this raid, never would have been able to access, because they were protected by attorney-client privilege. Much like the string of FISA abuses, centered around Carter Page, which were necessary for the agency to illegally surveil the President; the FBI has done it again. Wahhhhhhh 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, garybusey said: What would be problematic is Mueller sweeping potential crimes under the rug. Again, I ask you, is it problematic that the FBI has performed an end run around attorney-client privilege, a necessary hallmark of our entire system of jurisprudence, in order to gain access to information about a person investigating/prosecuting wide spread malfeasance and corruption in that agency? Is this something the intelligence apparatus of a free country should be doing? Just now, garybusey said: Wahhhhhhh This answer is why there will be an actual shooting war in this country. You are, quite literally, dismissing people posing legitimate concerns about the intelligence apparatus/legal system of our nation launching end runs around the basic legal protections that the entire notion of a free country rests upon as cry babies. This cannot stand, Gary. This is not clever. This is the collapse of our system. This is where desperation sets in.
Warren Zevon Posted April 10, 2018 Author Posted April 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: the FBI has performed an end run around attorney-client privilege, a necessary hallmark of our entire system of jurisprudence, in order to gain access to information about a person investigating/prosecuting wide spread malfeasance and corruption in that agency? This did not happen so I will not play your stupid games in this thread. Enjoy talking about this with DR or Buffalo Gal (assuming they're not the same person).
HappyDays Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: The FBI now has in it's possession all legal documents related to Donald Trump that had been in Michael Cohen's possession. Documents that they, without this raid, never would have been able to access, because they were protected by attorney-client privilege. Are you aware of the concept of admissible evidence? Are you aware that attorney-client communications can be made admissible evidence if they are discussing crimes the attorney is committing? Surprisingly the justice system doesn't leave an easy loophole wherein every attorney can make themselves immune from any and all criminal investigation.
row_33 Posted April 10, 2018 Posted April 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Are you aware of the concept of admissible evidence? Are you aware that attorney-client communications can be made admissible evidence if they are discussing crimes the attorney is committing? Surprisingly the justice system doesn't leave an easy loophole wherein every attorney can make themselves immune from any and all criminal investigation. has to be a very strong reason to break that confidentiality partisan suckybaby whiny politics isn't a reason
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