"Giants 'don't like' Josh Rosen".

[MAJBobby]

6 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

The Rams, Eagles did not give away 3 first round picks.  I'm saying I'd give 12, 22, and next year's 2 first.  That would be my first starting price knowing that I'm willing to give up next year's first.  But if he wants something more than that, then the deal is off.  I don't care what the Jets did.  That's them.

I don't care about the PICK Combination.  I am talking pick value.  Giants will get close to 3900 points for their pick.  That is the 50% premium, that Eagles, Rams and Jets paid.

 

So my walk away point is when Giants start wanting more than 4000 total points for a 2600 point pick.

 

So a package like 12,22,53,65 2019 1st, and 2019 3rd will likely get it done.  And that is fine with me.

Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby

[CuddyDark]

At number 2, they shouldn't. He's way overrated. He's a good player but not a great IMO. He'll have an above average career like Matt Ryan if he can get over being hit and or blitzed on the NFL level. He won't have a great Oline like he had at UCLA so why would the Giants draft him when they know their major issue is Oline play?

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

The Rams, Eagles did not give away 3 first round picks.  I'm saying I'd give 12, 22, and next year's 2 as an initial offer.  That would be my first starting price knowing that I'm willing to give up next year's first.  But if he wants something more than that, then 12, 22, and next year's 1st then the deal is off.  I don't care what the Jets did.  That's them.

 

 

But they gave away 2 1sts / 2 2nds / 2 3rds.

 

#12 ~ #15

Future 1st ~ Future 1st

 

Then you are down to #22 / #53 / #56 / #65 vs #43 / #45 / #76 / future 3rd

 

Obviously there's more value on our side, but pulling out one of the picks between #53-#65 swings that to be pretty much in line with the Rams trade to #1.

 

That's where I think a deal to #2 will land.  If we hold out pick #53, we basically have a full draft this year, #2 / #53 / #96 / #121, picks in each round 1-4 and down 1 future pick.  I could see the Giants sending a 4th either this year or next year to smooth things a bit, but I expect something in that ballpark. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Stupid. Giants are negotiating through the press, which means we're not trading with them. This will not happen.

[1billsfan]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I don't care about the PICK Combination.  I am talking pick value.  Giants will get close to 3900 points for their pick.  That is the 50% premium, that Eagles, Rams and Jets paid.

 

So my walk away point is when Giants start wanting more than 4000 total points for a 2600 point pick.

 

That's crazy. The reason being is that a team needs to have the ability to put supporting players in place and that's primarily through the draft. You'd be defeating the purpose of having a franchise QB. What good is a franchise QB when he's getting knocked down on every other play because he's passing every down since his defense can't stop the other team from scoring and the offensive line and running game is a joke?

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by 1billsfan

[MAJBobby]

Just now, 1billsfan said:

 

That's crazy. The reason being is that a team needs to have the ability to put supporting players in place and that's primarily through the draft. You'd be defeating the purpose of having a franchise QB. What good is a franchise QB when he's getting knocked down on every other play because he's passing every down since his defense can't stop the other team from scoring sand the offensive line and running game is a joke?

 

Did it hurt the Rams and Eagles?

3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

But they gave away 2 1sts / 2 2nds / 2 3rds.

 

#12 ~ #15

Future 1st ~ Future 1st

 

Then you are down to #22 / #53 / #56 / #65 vs #43 / #45 / #76 / future 3rd

 

Obviously there's more value on our side, but pulling out one of the picks between #53-#65 swings that to be pretty much in line with the Rams trade to #1.

 

That's where I think a deal to #2 will land.  If we hold out pick #53, we basically have a full draft this year, #2 / #53 / #96 / #121, picks in each round 1-4 and down 1 future pick.  I could see the Giants sending a 4th either this year or next year to smooth things a bit, but I expect something in that ballpark. 

Yep you can give up Both 1sts, 1 Second and 1 3rd and you have a full draft this year,

 

Move picks in 2019 to make up the value when you have 65+M in cap space

[Chuck Wagon]

11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Did it hurt the Rams and Eagles?

 

 

I think part of the problem is some of the posters aren't willing to accept a step back from a playoff team, even only short term.  They see "holes" all over the roster and can't see the forest from the trees.  It's a total rebuild, we just happened to make the playoffs year 1.  The goal isn't a Super Bowl team in 2018, it's to get the QB position in place, then start building around it.

[NewEraBills]

7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I don't care about the PICK Combination.  I am talking pick value.  Giants will get close to 3900 points for their pick.  That is the 50% premium, that Eagles, Rams and Jets paid.

 

So my walk away point is when Giants start wanting more than 4000 total points for a 2600 point pick.

 

So a package like 12,22,53,65 2019 1st, and 2019 3rd will likely get it done.  And that is fine with me.

I look at that and get sad.  Why can't 12, 22, and next year's 1st be enough?  Who has even offered what I'm suggesting in any year?  Ok let me not think about the picks for a second.  3900 points.  Let's reflect on just that.  See I look at your willingness to offer 3900 points but not 4000 as mere pettiness.  It's only 100 points so why not just give up 4000 points if you are willing to give up 3900.  If the pick is a 2600 points value, I'd say ok my negotiated spot starts at around 3100.  I'm willing to go up to 3600 but after that, we are getting into foolishness IMO.  In other words, I'll start the bidding at 500 over.  I'll give you that.  But I'm only willing to go 500 more.  If you really want to move take it or leave it.  Like I said, I scouted other QBs and to be clear I look at this like dating women and choosing one.  It is certainly the case that while I chose one, I could have also chosen another one because they had great qualities too.

[3rdand12]

9 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

At number 2, they shouldn't. He's way overrated. He's a good player but not a great IMO. He'll have an above average career like Matt Ryan if he can get over being hit and or blitzed on the NFL level. He won't have a great Oline like he had at UCLA so why would the Giants draft him when they know their major issue is Oline play?

They would have time to build that line using Eli as a sacrificial lamb lol.

[Chuck Wagon]

I do know one thing.  After looking at the board mock draft project, I'm fine giving up all 3 picks between 53-65.  If the 2019 1st is a must include, I wouldn't mind seeing if we can hold out #22 and give up all picks between 53-65.  Then we could go QB at 2 and impact linebacker / Ridley / DL / OL at 22.

[Senth]

Rosen no thank you.

[1billsfan]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Did it hurt the Rams and Eagles?

 

They did not pay 4000 in trade value. I'm not going to do the homework on that, but no way do I remember them paying that kind of ridiculous price.

 

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

I look at that and get sad.  Why can't 12, 22, and next year's 1st be enough?  Who has even offered what I'm suggesting in any year?  Ok let me not think about the picks for a second.  3900 points.  Let's reflect on just that.  See I look at your willingness to offer 3900 points but not 4000 as mere pettiness.  It's only 100 points so why not just give up 4000 points if you are willing to give up 3900.  If the pick is a 2600 points value, I'd say ok my negotiated spot starts at around 3100.  I'm willing to go up to 3600 but after that, we are getting into foolishness IMO.  In other words, I'll start the bidding at 500 over.  I'll give you that.  But I'm only willing to go 500 more.  If you really want to move take it or leave it.  Like I said, I scouted other QBs and to be clear I look at this like dating women and choosing one.  It is certainly the case that while I chose one, I could have also chosen another one because they had great qualities too.

Then you settle taking a look at prospects already worse then the prospects you passed on LAST year to put this plan in motion.  The reality is anything over 50% premium which is 3900 points is an overpayment.  So if you want me to put down a walkaway price I will.  It is over a 50% premium.

1 minute ago, 1billsfan said:

 

They did not pay 4000 in trade value. I'm not going to do the homework on that, but no way do I remember them paying that kind of ridiculous price.

 

They did pay the 50% premium or really close to it.  that is the reality.

[BillsFan4]

56 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

Unless we get Denver's pick at 5 or Cleveland's pick at 4, I just don't see where it makes all that much more sense for the Giants to go from 2 to 7.  At 7, they could see all of Barkley / Chubb / Nelson off the board and be forced to take a player not all that different from pick 12.  Why lose a big premium for that?

 

Teams know what other teams can offer.  If the Giants decide to move the pick, I don't know they need to wait till they know what the Browns are doing, they'll have a price and move when it's met.

Colts pick at 6 (which it has been written they are open to moving back from) would give the Giants one of Barkley, Nelson or Chubb. 

 

 

[Chuck Wagon]

15 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

I look at that and get sad.  Why can't 12, 22, and next year's 1st be enough?  Who has even offered what I'm suggesting in any year?  Ok let me not think about the picks for a second.  3900 points.  Let's reflect on just that.  See I look at your willingness to offer 3900 points but not 4000 as mere pettiness.  It's only 100 points so why not just give up 4000 points if you are willing to give up 3900.  If the pick is a 2600 points value, I'd say ok my negotiated spot starts at around 3100.  I'm willing to go up to 3600 but after that, we are getting into foolishness IMO.  In other words, I'll start the bidding at 500 over.  I'll give you that.  But I'm only willing to go 500 more.  If you really want to move take it or leave it.  Like I said, I scouted other QBs and to be clear I look at this like dating women and choosing one.  It is certainly the case that while I chose one, I could have also chosen another one because they had great qualities too.

 

 

#12 / #53 / #56 / #65 / 2019 1st / 2019 3rd for #2 / #108 is pretty much dead on with what the Rams gave up to go to pick #1.

 

We keep pick #22.

 

It'll be VERY tough for any team to match that offer.  The Dolphins can't, the Cardinals can't, the Pats likely can't. 

[1billsfan]

9 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I think part of the problem is some of the posters aren't willing to accept a step back from a playoff team, even only short term.  They see "holes" all over the roster and can't see the forest from the trees.  It's a total rebuild, we just happened to make the playoffs year 1.  The goal isn't a Super Bowl team in 2018, it's to get the QB position in place, then start building around it.

 

With what? They don't have the picks anymore. Free agency? Sounds good, until the players you already have had on the team resent the new additions being paid prime money and they are still looking for the big bucks. That never works in real life with real people.

 

 

[3rdand12]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

I do know one thing.  After looking at the board mock draft project, I'm fine giving up all 3 picks between 53-65.  If the 2019 1st is a must include, I wouldn't mind seeing if we can hold out #22 and give up all picks between 53-65.  Then we could go QB at 2 and impact linebacker / Ridley / DL / OL at 22.

and Fa Next year to help us along, Next year Bills have money, now they have little. But they do have draft capitol leverage.
I might try to trade some of next years picks to soften the blow to this potentially amazing Bills draft. They need to make this an option. To get to two.
And as mentioned that number could change for every team after Cleveland drafts QB at 1. Maybe they draft Rosen and Giants dance with joy and draft Darnold.
I am not one to overpay for anything. well most anything.....

[NewEraBills]

4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

I think part of the problem is some of the posters aren't willing to accept a step back from a playoff team, even only short term.  They see "holes" all over the roster and can't see the forest from the trees.  It's a total rebuild, we just happened to make the playoffs year 1.  The goal isn't a Super Bowl team in 2018, it's to get the QB position in place, then start building around it.

 

That's not the case for me.  The way I figure it we are not going to win the division until Brady is out of NE, which is why I think it's a good idea to take a swing.  But, if we are using baseball as an analogy when you swing, you are swinging at certain pitches.  What kind of pitches are being thrown?  You don't swing at every pitch.  Good batters swing at "their pitch(es)".  They don't swing just because the pitcher is pitching.  Batters that do that tend to strike out.  Ultimately, the analogy serves as a lesson to know what your pitches are, in this case, options are, and swing at your pitch(es).  Don't go chasing the pitches that the pitcher wants you to chase because he's trying to strike you out.  

 

In saying all of that, I understand, this is a rebuild and you have to have a franchise guy.  Whoever we get we'll be told it was their guy, EVEN if it was only one of their guys in reality.

[1billsfan]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They did pay the 50% premium or really close to it.  that is the reality.

 

Sorry, I just don't believe you.

 

[NewEraBills]

3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

 

 

#12 / #53 / #56 / #65 / 2019 1st / 2019 3rd for #2 / #108 is pretty much dead on with what the Rams gave up to go to pick #1.

 

We keep pick #22.

 

It'll be VERY tough for any team to match that offer.  The Dolphins can't, the Cardinals can't, the Pats likely can't. 

 

Now if we are keeping 22 then fine.  My initial suggestion was giving 12, 22, and ultimately next year's 1st up.  To me, anything more than those 3 picks and I'd think about walking away.  Ok, a 2020 3rd to sweeten the deal.  How is that not enough?