BillsFan4 Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) This article, among many others, make it sound like the Giants are looking at Darnold and the 3 top non-QB prospects in this draft. If they are set on one one of those 3 non-QB prospects, the Bill strading up to #6, and from there to #2 would make perfect sense. In that scenario, QBs go off the board 1, 2 & 3. So the Giants are guaranteed to get one of their top 3 prospects (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb). It aounds like the Colts are willing to move down again. This could be our path to the #2 pick. Something else I've been thinking about - depending on how highly the Giants have these top QBs rated they may not want one going to the Jets. Maybe they really don't want to see Rosen in Jets green, making a trade back from #2 even more enticing... Edited April 9, 2018 by BillsFan4 1
Chuck Wagon Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, 1billsfan said: The only offer Beane will do will probably be in line with the trade value chart... #2 pick = 2600 #12, #22, #53, #65 picks = 2615 If the Giants ask for anything more they will probably not trade up and will go with either Jackson or Rudolf at #12. Beane's not going to get rolled over and leave a rookie QB without a chance to add talented players on rookie deals. Once those parameters are set, then it's up to the Giants to take it or leave it. I could see that deal with the 2019 2nd rounder kicked in. Considering the 12 + 22 = pick #5 in value, that's pretty close to the Jets trade of moving up 3 spots with 3 2nd round picks. That allows us to have a full draft, while giving the Giants 5 picks in the first 2 rounds the next 2 years. It would also be tough for other teams to match.
Buddo Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 I don't think the Giants are prepared to move too far back tbh. 5, 6 or 7 might be their limit, and the ball is in Beane's court to get the Bills there. Then the dance is on. It may not be quite as expensive to move up from, say 7, the big question, is how much do you give up to get there in the first place. I think that realistically the highest the Bills can get to before trading with the Gints, would be the #6 from Indy, but even that might be debateable. #7 might be their best shot, and then they must know what the Giants will want from there. Unless the Browns announce their pick early, we aren't going to know if we will move to the #2, until that first pick is in. I'm going to say that if we haven't moved further up before the draft, we aren't going to go to the #2 regardless. I don't see trading multiple picks twice, is something you want to be doing in the limited time available, between the first and second picks.
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 Please Browns take Darnold. Bills go up and get Rosen.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mark80 said: Neither do I. I've jumped off his train. early on, I was liking the possibility but the more I hear about concussions and the fact he just doesn't look all that tough to me. couple good hits and IR he goes. I'd like Mayfield but it wont matter who I or anyone wants/likes. they may already have a plan in place that doesn't include the QB some may want or even a QB (1st round) at all?
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, 1billsfan said: The only offer Beane will do will probably be in line with the trade value chart... #2 pick = 2600 #12, #22, #53, #65 picks = 2615 If the Giants ask for anything more they will probably not trade up and will go with either Jackson or Rudolf at #12. Beane's not going to get rolled over and leave a rookie QB without a chance to add talented players on rookie deals. Once those parameters are set, then it's up to the Giants to take it or leave it. Wont make it happen. He is going to have to kick in a premium. the 50% premium is going to be 3900 points total. So look for 2019 picks to make up the premium that will have to be paid.
Augie Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, MAJBobby said: Please Browns take Darnold. Bills go up and get Rosen. I’d say take Allen, but for the life of me I feel bad for their fans.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Buddo said: I don't think the Giants are prepared to move too far back tbh. 5, 6 or 7 might be their limit, and the ball is in Beane's court to get the Bills there. Then the dance is on. It may not be quite as expensive to move up from, say 7, the big question, is how much do you give up to get there in the first place. I think that realistically the highest the Bills can get to before trading with the Gints, would be the #6 from Indy, but even that might be debateable. #7 might be their best shot, and then they must know what the Giants will want from there. Unless the Browns announce their pick early, we aren't going to know if we will move to the #2, until that first pick is in. I'm going to say that if we haven't moved further up before the draft, we aren't going to go to the #2 regardless. I don't see trading multiple picks twice, is something you want to be doing in the limited time available, between the first and second picks. I'm not convinced the Giants wouldn't be willing to move down to 12 just to avoid losing some of the premium from the pick package. I'm assuming a move from 12 to 7 wouldn't be a value neutral deal, we would have to kick in some bonus. But the Giants could have several of Fitzpatrick / Edmonds / Ward / Smith / James ranked to the point they are comfortable operating from 12 while taking an extra 2nd, instead of the 2nd going to turn 12 into 7. If one of the guys you were going to take at 7 falls into the 9-10 range, you could be looking at a much cheaper price to go get that player. When the Titans traded the pick to the Rams for Goff, they dropped down to 15 weeks before the draft then went back to 8 on draft night. I'm convinced the hesitation to trade to 2 is as much on us not being willing to pull the trigger until the homework is all done on the QBs as it is on the Giants doing their same homework. But if both teams reach a conclusion and a price, it could happen well before the draft to allow for follow up moves. 1
MJS Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 45 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: That's what farm teams have. I guess we're a farm team. ChrisHogan - a free agent we picked up who is a 3rd/4th string WR. Before Buffalo he struggled to make rosters around the NFL. MikeGillislee - a street free agent 2nd stringer we picked up who went to NE and did nothing (but we got a draft pick in the process). Stephen Gilmore - a high draft pick who has always played well for only the 2nd half of the season and who got over paid in free agency, and our secondary was much better with him gone somehow.
Augie Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, MJS said: I guess we're a farm team. ChrisHogan - a free agent we picked up who is a 3rd/4th string WR. Before Buffalo he struggled to make rosters around the NFL. MikeGillislee - a street free agent 2nd stringer we picked up who went to NE and did nothing (but we got a draft pick in the process). Stephen Gilmore - a high draft pick who has always played well for only the 2nd half of the season and who got over paid in free agency, and our secondary was much better with him gone somehow. Well, there IS all that..... This is more on the coaches than the player, but Gilmore on the field with the club hand still makes me laugh....and gives me nightmares.
Boatdrinks Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 If the Bills move to 2 from 12 it will either take a massive premium or a bridge move to 7 first. Some team will covet that # 2 pick for a QB as it gives the most possible certainty of the player to be available ( obviously Browns not moving from 1). Will it be the Bills? The Pats are tough to figure, and they're probably looking to get a LT to protect Brady for the remainder of his career. Is it crazy to think they may move to get his replacement a couple years early and throw Gronkowski in to a deal for pick 2? They've never been afraid to trade their players away with substantial tread left on the tires. The G-men seem to be in a win - now mode with Eli and could make a run with some picks and Gronkowski. I hate the thought of it, but the Pats just can't be counted out.
4merper4mer Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 Is he out for the season yet? The football version of Tim Connelly. Let's trade all our picks.
BillsFan4 Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: I've jumped off his train. early on, I was liking the possibility but the more I hear about concussions and the fact he just doesn't look all that tough to me. couple good hits and IR he goes. I'd like Mayfield but it wont matter who I or anyone wants/likes. they may already have a plan in place that doesn't include the QB some may want or even a QB (1st round) at all? Did you know Mayfield has also had 2 concussions in college? (and at least 1 in high school) And IMO it could be argued that his playing style will put him at risk of suffering more in the future. Build a good o line around Rosen and you can help limit that risk. Mayfield will likely always be a guy who plays quite a bit outside the pocket.
DCOrange Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 We’ll see what happens, but outside of drafting Rosen in the first or not selecting a QB until Day 2/3, trading up for Rosen is probably my least favorite option. I’m hoping this is a smokescreen and that the Giants actually want him.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said: Did you know Mayfield has also had 2 concussions in college? (and at least 1 in high school) And IMO it could be argued that his playing style will put him at risk of suffering more in the future. Build a good o line around Rosen and you can help limit that risk. Mayfield will likely always be a guy who plays quite a bit outside the pocket. thanks for that info. I'd still take him over Rosen and hoping he isn't the pick but who ever they land in this upcoming draft I will support until said player proves, like many in the past have, he isn't worth supporting due to not meeting expectations. 1
Buddo Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: I'm not convinced the Giants wouldn't be willing to move down to 12 just to avoid losing some of the premium from the pick package. I'm assuming a move from 12 to 7 wouldn't be a value neutral deal, we would have to kick in some bonus. But the Giants could have several of Fitzpatrick / Edmonds / Ward / Smith / James ranked to the point they are comfortable operating from 12 while taking an extra 2nd, instead of the 2nd going to turn 12 into 7. If one of the guys you were going to take at 7 falls into the 9-10 range, you could be looking at a much cheaper price to go get that player. When the Titans traded the pick to the Rams for Goff, they dropped down to 15 weeks before the draft then went back to 8 on draft night. I'm convinced the hesitation to trade to 2 is as much on us not being willing to pull the trigger until the homework is all done on the QBs as it is on the Giants doing their same homework. But if both teams reach a conclusion and a price, it could happen well before the draft to allow for follow up moves. I see where you are coming from with this, but I think they value about 3 or 4 non-qbs pretty highly, and as such really don't want to slide too far back. Also, nobody knows who the Browns are picking atm, so the Giants won't move until they know, imho, which pretty much nixes your scenario. I'd also say that it's far easier to let the Bills do the legwork with trades, and you can concentrate on which players you'd want.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, DCOrange said: We’ll see what happens, but outside of drafting Rosen in the first or not selecting a QB until Day 2/3, trading up for Rosen is probably my least favorite option. I’m hoping this is a smokescreen and that the Giants actually want him. I just don't see much for the Giants to gain by smokescreening they don't like Rosen when they actually do, unless the Browns are legitimately looking into offers for #1. I guess if the Jets are head over heels for Rosen and the Browns are equally fine with any one of 3 or 4 QBs, there's a chance they could flip 1 and 3.
NewEraBills Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Disagree. Which is exactly what they'll do. We need them, they will certainly have other options if they want. If they do then we've already scouted other QB's. That's how you sell it. Hey man, I really want to make a deal with you as you have expressed interest in moving, but I've scouted other QBs so I'm not pressed. This is not about the player's worth so much as how good you are at playing poker and winning.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, Buddo said: I see where you are coming from with this, but I think they value about 3 or 4 non-qbs pretty highly, and as such really don't want to slide too far back. Also, nobody knows who the Browns are picking atm, so the Giants won't move until they know, imho, which pretty much nixes your scenario. I'd also say that it's far easier to let the Bills do the legwork with trades, and you can concentrate on which players you'd want. Unless we get Denver's pick at 5 or Cleveland's pick at 4, I just don't see where it makes all that much more sense for the Giants to go from 2 to 7. At 7, they could see all of Barkley / Chubb / Nelson off the board and be forced to take a player not all that different from pick 12. Why lose a big premium for that? Teams know what other teams can offer. If the Giants decide to move the pick, I don't know they need to wait till they know what the Browns are doing, they'll have a price and move when it's met.
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