MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 Eagles paid 3200ish for a 2600 point pick. Rams paid around 4200ish points for a 3000 point pick 11 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: #12 / #53 / #56 / #65 / 2019 1st / 2019 3rd for #2 / #108 is pretty much dead on with what the Rams gave up to go to pick #1. We keep pick #22. It'll be VERY tough for any team to match that offer. The Dolphins can't, the Cardinals can't, the Pats likely can't. I would do that package as well 10 minutes ago, 1billsfan said: Sorry, I just don't believe you. Just gotta look it up. pretty easy
1billsfan Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Eagles paid 3200ish for a 2600 point pick. Rams paid around 4200ish points for a 3000 point pick I would do that package as well That's wrong according to this story... http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15201946/tennessee-titans-trade-no-1-pick-los-angeles-rams Rams paid 2100 points in 2016 (Titans gave also Rams a 4th and a 6th 2016 picks), and a mid 1st plus and mid 3rd rounder in 2017 would equal about 1100. That's 3200. I don't know where you're getting (adding?) your numbers from. Edited April 9, 2018 by 1billsfan
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) Futures can be valued anywhere from the first pick in the draft to the last pick in that round. Depends on how the team negotiation went. So yes to say the Rams sold their future as a top 10 pick is not that hard of a leap So if I am the Bills I am trying to sell their future pick as a top 10 pick as well in terms of the points I am attaching to it. Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Eagles paid 3200ish for a 2600 point pick. Rams paid around 4200ish points for a 3000 point pick I would do that package as well Just gotta look it up. pretty easy 269+315+61=645 plus next years(2017) 467+67=534 Using the Hill Chart I get 1179 paid by the Rams(using actual 2017 picks not known at the time) for the 1000 pt pick
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, horned dogs said: 269+315+61=645 plus next years(2017) 467+67=534 Using the Hill Chart I get 1179 paid by the Rams(using actual 2017 picks not known at the time) for the 1000 pt pick And Hill also said this about his chart. "Trying to make a table that includes the top of the draft (i.e. top 5) doesn't make sense because the value of the pick changes on a year to year basis. For example, the #1 pick when Andrew Luck was a prospect is worth a LOT more than the #1 pick with Myles Garrett as the top prospect. Teams love their quarterbacks and drafts with good QB prospects see an increased value in picks at the top. So take the value of the top 5 picks on the chart as a baseline and adjust the value accordingly when the top prospects from out of college" ----- This tidbit it was I have been talking about the QB Premium. He also says this. "Future Draft picks are valued one round earlier than the current year. In other words, a team could trade a 4th round pick in 2017 and expect to receive a 2018 3rd round pick in return." ---- So FUTURE picks are worth more to teams. Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby 1
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: And Hill also said this about his chart. "Trying to make a table that includes the top of the draft (i.e. top 5) doesn't make sense because the value of the pick changes on a year to year basis. For example, the #1 pick when Andrew Luck was a prospect is worth a LOT more than the #1 pick with Myles Garrett as the top prospect. Teams love their quarterbacks and drafts with good QB prospects see an increased value in picks at the top. So take the value of the top 5 picks on the chart as a baseline and adjust the value accordingly when the top prospects from out of college" ----- This tidbit it was I have been talking about the QB Premium. He also says this. "Future Draft picks are valued one round earlier than the current year. In other words, a team could trade a 4th round pick in 2017 and expect to receive a 2018 3rd round pick in return." ---- So FUTURE picks are worth more to teams. I willing to pay the premium to go get Josh Rosen, git r done McBeane!
CamboBill Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) Under no circumstances should we be giving up picks in 2019. We are rebuilding this year and could wind up a bottom 10 team ... which would top 10 picks next year. If we can get away with dealing picks only from this year's draft, I am more open to trading up. The only QB worth moving into the top 5 for, MIGHT be Darnold. So many here think only in terms of draft position as if being the #2 pick automatically makes the guy a franchise QB. Is Rosen (or Allen) REALLY worth #12, #22, our 2 second rounders AND next year's #1??? Insanity. It is not like we are trading up for Wentz. It is THE PLAYER that matters, not the draft position. Edited April 9, 2018 by CamboBill
BuffAlone Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CamboBill said: Under no circumstances should we be giving up picks in 2019. We are rebuilding this year and could wind up a bottom 10 team ... which would top 10 picks next year. If we can get away with dealing picks only from this year's draft, I am more open to trading up. The only QB worth moving into the top 5 for, MIGHT be Darn old. So many here think only in terms of draft position as if #2 pick automatically makes the guy a franchise QB. Is Rosen (or Allen) REALLY worth #12, #22, our 2 second rodeos AND next year's #1??? Insanity. It is not like we are trading up for Wentz. It is THE PLAYER that matters, not the draft position. Rosen is the real deal.so yes, it's worth the cost. All day long, and twice on Sundays? Edited April 9, 2018 by BuffAlone 1
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, CamboBill said: Under no circumstances should we be giving up picks in 2019. We are rebuilding this year and could wind up a bottom 10 team ... which would top 10 picks next year. If we can get away with dealing picks only from this year's draft, I am more open to trading up. The only QB worth moving into the top 5 for, MIGHT be Darnold. So many here think only in terms of draft position as if being the #2 pick automatically makes the guy a franchise QB. Is Rosen (or Allen) REALLY worth #12, #22, our 2 second rounders AND next year's #1??? Insanity. It is not like we are trading up for Wentz. It is THE PLAYER that matters, not the draft position. And people said the same thing about Wentz that you are saying about Rosen. So the reality is there are scouts that have Rosen at an over 90 grade.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, CamboBill said: Under no circumstances should we be giving up picks in 2019. We are rebuilding this year and could wind up a bottom 10 team ... which would top 10 picks next year. If we can get away with dealing picks only from this year's draft, I am more open to trading up. Having that future pick is so much more important than a franchise QB The only QB worth moving into the top 5 for, MIGHT be Darnold. Nonsense, who says that..you? So many here think only in terms of draft position as if being the #2 pick automatically makes the guy a franchise QB. No one says that Is Rosen (or Allen) REALLY worth #12, #22, our 2 second rounders AND next year's #1??? Yes they very well might be Insanity. Insanity is repeating the strategy of the past It is not like we are trading up for Wentz. And you know this how? It is THE PLAYER that matters, not the draft position. After saying the above smh All in all a brutal post!!
CamboBill Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, BuffAlone said: Rosen is the real deal.so yes, it's worth the cost. All day long, and twice on Sundays? I like Rosen well enough. I only worry about his lack of mobility and evasive Ness in the pocket. However you do not trade two drafts away for the next Trent Green: (from NFL. Com) .... Sources Tell Us "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive NFL ComparisonTrent Green Bottom Line Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. Edited April 9, 2018 by CamboBill
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, CamboBill said: I like Rosen well enough. I only worry about his lack of mobility and evasive Ness in the pocket. However you do not trade two drafts away for the next Trent Green: (from NFL. Com) .... Sources Tell Us "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive NFL Comparison Trent Green Bottom Line Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. Same People said Johnny Rehab was Doug Flutie. See how STUPID NFL Comparisons ARE. Winston was compared to Jamarcus Russell Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby 1
BuffAlone Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, CamboBill said: I like Rosen well enough. I only worry about his lack of mobility and evasive Ness in the pocket. However you do not trade two drafts away for the next Trent Green: (from NFL. Com) .... Sources Tell Us "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive NFL Comparison Trent Green Bottom Line Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. Do you know from whom this nonsense came from directly over at NFL.com? I'd like to slap him one good time. Unless he's a her...then I'd just laugh even harder and say, "ok. She's as dumb as a box of rocks"
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, CamboBill said: I like Rosen well enough. I only worry about his lack of mobility and evasive Ness in the pocket. However you do not trade two drafts away for the next Trent Green: (from NFL. Com) .... Sources Tell Us "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive NFL ComparisonTrent Green Bottom Line Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. Yeah BEACUSE EVERY OTHER QB wont have to do the bolded right. Such lazy takes Where is the rest of this report??? HMMMM Maybe Like this: Impeccable footwork and delivery balance Excellent coordination between eyes and feet Mechanics are terrific Throws receivers open best back shoulder thrower in the game 63% completion when blitzed Edited April 9, 2018 by MAJBobby
Tyrod's friend Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 16 minutes ago, CamboBill said: Josh Rosen .. lacks plus arm strength, Josh Rosen was timed at a 57 MPH toss. Frame of reference: this is the same basic speed of Wentz or Goff, it's just barely slower than Mayfield. DeShaun Watson was timed at 49 MPH. Arm speed doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. What matters is that the ball gets there before the DB can react to the ball and there's about a million ways that can happen. Here's one remarkable way: Throw to an open receiver.
NewEraBills Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, CamboBill said: I like Rosen well enough. I only worry about his lack of mobility and evasive Ness in the pocket. However you do not trade two drafts away for the next Trent Green: (from NFL. Com) .... Sources Tell Us "He wasn't the guy everyone rallied around in college and you don't have to dig around for too long to find people who said he was hard to coach. He's definitely talented. Nobody questions that. But he's going to have to get grown men to buy into him as their leader. That is not a given." -- NFL Executive NFL ComparisonTrent Green Bottom Line Josh Rosen's footwork and mechanics make him as pretty a quarterback as you will find in this year's draft. The biggest concern with Rosen is that his on-field success requires many elements to stay on schedule. He lacks plus arm strength, so identifying coverage (pre- and post-snap) and throwing with anticipation takes on added importance. Rosen has the pocket poise, accuracy and intelligence to become a good NFL starter, but he needs to be willing to take what defenses give him more frequently. Rosen will need to quell concerns surrounding leadership and coachability early on in order to establish a strong first impression and get his career off on the right foot. I'm not an expert, but I have to ask who writes these? I mean from what I've watched given his penchant for fitting the football into tight windows arm strength and anticipation are not even questions. To me there are really only two questions on Rosen. 1) Durability - which technically is a question that can be discussed about all of the QB's coming in. 2) The media-driven question about his coachability and leadership which probably is not even true. I have no questions about his passing ability, processing and diagnosing what's in front of him, and his anticipation. Not sure where that came from at all. Edited April 9, 2018 by NewEraBills
CamboBill Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Yeah BEACUSE EVERY OTHER QB wont have to do the bolded right. Such lazy takes Where is the rest of this report??? HMMMM Maybe Like this: Impeccable footwork and delivery balance Excellent coordination between eyes and feet Mechanics are terrific Throws receivers open best back shoulder thrower in the game 63% completion when blitzed He is a good prospect .... footwork, accuracy etc .... I would love to take a flier on him. but you cannot ignore the red flags either ... I am most bothered by his durability concerns, combined with his inability to "escape" in the pocket . Even if you ignore the supposed character issues (which I do think are overblown) , you cannot ignore that he lacks elite arm strength, is a bit frail, and has a history of injuries (including concussions). Still worth a first round pick? Absolutely. Worth two years worth of top picks? No way.
BuffAlone Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, CamboBill said: He is a good prospect .... footwork, accuracy etc .... I would love to take a flier on him. but you cannot ignore the red flags either ... I am most bothered by his durability concerns, combined with his inability to "escape" in the pocket . Even if you ignore the supposed character issues (which I do think are overblown) , you cannot ignore that he lacks elite arm strength, is a bit frail, and has a history of injuries (including concussions). Still worth a first round pick? Absolutely. Worth two years worth of top picks? No way. A "flier" on him? Good grief man, who would you want? If you got someone better deserving of a flier, please let us know so we can follow your logic
MAJBobby Posted April 9, 2018 Posted April 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, CamboBill said: He is a good prospect .... footwork, accuracy etc .... I would love to take a flier on him. but you cannot ignore the red flags either ... I am most bothered by his durability concerns, combined with his inability to "escape" in the pocket . Even if you ignore the supposed character issues (which I do think are overblown) , you cannot ignore that he lacks elite arm strength, is a bit frail, and has a history of injuries (including concussions). Still worth a first round pick? Absolutely. Worth two years worth of top picks? No way. His arm is plenty fine. The only flags I have on him are the durability 1
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