Smart Coaches Will Pass on Josh Allen

[Irv]

A lot of NFL coaches look at the physical traits and tell themselves that can turn a player into something he is not.  I think that applies with Josh Allen.  I hope we stay away from him.  Numbers aren't everything but they're not nothing. 

 

Mountain West Player Passing Statistics - 2017

Statistics: Passing | Rushing | Receiving | Scoring | Returning | Kicking | Punting | Defense
Season:  20172016201520142013201220112010200920082007200620052004
Conference:  ---- FBS (Division I-A) ----ACCAmericanBig 12Big TenC-USAFBS Indep.MACMWPac-12SECSun Belt---- FCS (Division I-AA) ----Big SkyBig SouthCAAFCS Indep.Great WestIvyMEACMVFCNECOVCPatriotPioneerSouthernSouthlandSWAC

 

PASSING YARDS LEADERS - ALL PLAYERS

RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
1	Nick Stevens, QB	CSU	284	459	61.9	3799	8.3	76	29	10	13	147.9
2	Brett Rypien, QB	BSU	218	348	62.6	2877	8.3	87	16	6	20	143.8
3	Dru Brown, QB	HAW	254	412	61.7	2785	6.8	85	18	8	30	129.0
4	Ty Gangi, QB	NEV	228	374	61.0	2746	7.3	82	25	11	7	138.8
5	Marcus McMaryion, QB	FRES	218	351	62.1	2726	7.8	81	14	5	8	137.7
6	Christian Chapman, QB	SDSU	146	243	60.1	1873	7.7	89	13	4	29	139.2
7	Josh Allen, QB	WYO	152	270	56.3	1812	6.7	47	16	6	22	127.8
8	Jordan Love, QB	USU	129	235	54.9	1631	6.9	77	8	6	7	119.3
9	Montel Aaron, QB	SJSU	126	225	56.0	1531	6.8	59	8	10	22	116.0
10	Armani Rogers, QB	UNLV	99	189	52.4	1471	7.8	94	6	5	22	122.9
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
11	Kent Myers, QB	USU	124	197	62.9	1278	6.5	49	8	7	21	123.7
12	Arion Worthman, QB	AFA	54	109	49.5	1100	10.1	64	10	4	16	157.2
13	Josh Love, QB	SJSU	92	170	54.1	928	5.5	47	5	7	11	101.4
14	Montell Cozart, QB	BSU	61	97	62.9	754	7.8	47	10	1	9	160.1
15	Johnny Stanton, QB	UNLV	55	88	62.5	724	8.2	52	4	2	1	142.1
16	Tevaka Tuioti, QB	UNM	57	118	48.3	705	6.0	62	4	6	2	99.5
17	Lamar Jordan, QB	UNM	46	93	49.5	604	6.5	71	3	6	12	101.8
18	Chason Virgil, QB	FRES	48	83	57.8	524	6.3	40	3	2	2	118.0
19	Nick Smith, QB	WYO	40	74	54.1	471	6.4	53	2	2	4	111.0
20	Kaymen Cureton, QB	NEV	20	38	52.6	213	5.6	54	3	1	8	120.5
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
21	Coltin Gerhart, QB	UNM	17	29	58.6	180	6.2	27	1	2	1	108.3
22	Nate Romine, QB	AFA	9	16	56.3	133	8.3	29	0	1	4	113.6
23	David Cornwell, QB	NEV	13	25	52.0	97	3.9	21	0	3	1	60.6
24	Josh Hokit, RB	FRES	2	3	66.7	81	27.0	65	2	0	0	513.5
25	Andrew Celis, WR	NEV	3	5	60.0	76	15.2	28	1	0	0	253.7
26	Kelton Moore, RB	NEV	1	1	100.0	57	57.0	57	1	0	0	908.8
27	Cristian Solano, QB	NEV	5	6	83.3	56	9.3	23	0	0	0	161.7
28	Tre Walker, WR	SJSU	1	1	100.0	54	54.0	54	1	0	0	883.6
29	Kurt Palandech, QB	UNLV	8	19	42.1	48	2.5	9	0	2	1	42.3
30	Ryan Agnew, QB	SDSU	4	7	57.1	47	6.7	17	0	0	2	113.5
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	COMP	ATT	PCT	YDS	YDS/A	LONG	TD	INT	SACK	RAT
31	Cedrick Wilson, WR	BSU	2	3	66.7	46	15.3	31	0	0	0	195.5
32	Sam Allen, QB	SJSU	5	13	38.5	40	3.1	14	0	2	3	33.5
33	Isaiah Sanders, QB	AFA	4	15	26.7	33	2.2	16	0	1	2	31.8
34	Tyler Williams, WR	AFA	1	1	100.0	31	31.0	31	0	0	0	360.4
35	Aaren Vaughns, WR	USU	1	2	50.0	29	14.5	29	1	0	0	336.8
36	Geraud Sanders, WR	AFA	1	1	100.0	24	24.0	24	0	0	0	301.6
37	Austin Conway, WR	WYO	2	2	100.0	22	11.0	20	0	0	0	192.4
	Cole McDonald, QB	HAW	5	9	55.6	22	2.4	9	1	0	0	112.8
39	Michael Carrillo, QB	SJSU	2	3	66.7	21	7.0	12	1	0	0	235.5
40	Cole Brownholtz, QB	HAW	1	1	100.0	7	7.0	7	0	0	0	158.8

53 Results

 

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Glossary

• COMP: Completions
• ATT: Passing attempts
• PCT: Completion percentage
• YDS: Passing yards

• YDS/A: Yards per pass attempt
• LONG: Longest pass
• TD: Passing touchdowns
• INT: Interceptions thrown

• SACK: Sacks
• RAT: Passer Efficiency

 

[without a drought]

Should smart GM's pass too?

[What a Tuel]

Can we get McDermott out there to pass the football then?

Edited April 8, 2018 by What a Tuel

[Irv]

Just now, The Drought said:

Should smart GM's pass too?

 

Are you implying the coaches have no say in the draft and Beane will act independently of McDerrmott?  Get real.  

[without a drought]

Just now, Irv said:

 

Are you implying the coaches have no say in the draft and Beane will act independently of McDerrmott?  Get real.  

Yes that is exactly what I'm implying.  Get real. 

[TigerJ]

Josh Allen certainly does carry a fair amount of risk.  There are, however, a number of factors that contribute to his accuracy issues that may be addressed with solid coaching.  It will take some time, and there are no guarantees, but if you don't need the guy to play right a way, and have a fair amount of risk tolerance, drafting Josh Allen could pay off big  time in the long run.  I'm not recommending Buffalo target him as I'm not sure they have the requisite risk tolerance.

[metzelaars_lives]

Why don't you put up his numbers from 2016 as a redshirt sophomore, his first year starting as a college QB, when his ENTIRE group of skill position players (yes, literally every single one) were seniors and he was named the first team all-MWC QB and led to his being named the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017?  He also led the Cowboys to an 8-5 record, a MWC championship game and a decent bowl appearance against a ranked BYU team, both of which they narrowly lost, a season after they went 2-10 with all the same guys as juniors (different QB).

[DriveFor1Outta5]

2 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Josh Allen certainly does carry a fair amount of risk.  There are, however, a number of factors that contribute to his accuracy issues that may be addressed with solid coaching.  It will take some time, and there are no guarantees, but if you don't need the guy to play right a way, and have a fair amount of risk tolerance, drafting Josh Allen could pay off big  time in the long run.  I'm not recommending Buffalo target him as I'm not sure they have the requisite risk tolerance.

This is where debates about players like Allen lead to philosophical questions. No matter how great the teacher, can you teach someone to do soemthing they aren’t capable of? With good coaching there is a chance that Allen might become an accurate passer. There is also a high probability that Allen doesn’t possess the ability to be an accurate passer.  This is why so many of us prefer drafting a guy who has shown the ability to be an accurate passer. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

10 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

Are you implying the coaches have no say in the draft and Beane will act independently of McDerrmott?  Get real.  

Diffrent teams go about the draft process in different manners. Here in Buffalo It's been made crystal clear that the coaching staff will have input. Their voices will be heard. However final decisions on the QB come from Beane. I do believe however they will be in agreement of whatever happens. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

Are you implying the coaches have no say in the draft and Beane will act independently of McDerrmott?  Get real.  

 

....that was the egotistical, control freak way of the DonoHOLE era...."here are YOUR players...YOU make it work"...and he hired a greenhorn HC like Greggy at a whopping 900 grand a year who would certainly subordinate to "El Presidente's" edict....no way in hell McD would cave like that...if memory serves me, he was on staff before McBeane and the 2018 draft has been attributed to him (with Whaley's gang doing the prep).....

[blacklabel]

OK THANKS IRV

[SouthNYfan]

14 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

....that was the egotistical, control freak way of the DonoHOLE era...."here are YOUR players...YOU make it work"...and he hired a greenhorn HC like Greggy at a whopping 900 grand a year who would certainly subordinate to "El Presidente's" edict....no way in hell McD would cave like that...if memory serves me, he was on staff before McBeane and the 2018 draft has been attributed to him (with Whaley's gang doing the prep).....

 

Yes.

McDermott was hired pre draft.

BEANE (his name is Brandon Beane, not McBeane, that was a contraction made up of "McDermott-Beane " to imply that they both share in the decision making) did not begin until after the draft, I believe.

[TigerJ]

11 minutes ago, DriveFor1Outta5 said:

This is where debates about players like Allen lead to philosophical questions. No matter how great the teacher, can you teach someone to do soemthing they aren’t capable of? With good coaching there is a chance that Allen might become an accurate passer. There is also a high probability that Allen doesn’t possess the ability to be an accurate passer.  This is why so many of us prefer drafting a guy who has shown the ability to be an accurate passer. 

This is true.  Drafting Josh Allen is a lot like drafting a college freshman.  When he graduated high school he was lightly recruited and could not get into a major college because his high school program was so weak.  They played 7 on 7.  Most of the team's players played other sports so the school didn't try to send their kids to sports camps.  Allen never attended a QB camp in high school.  He ended up in a junior college for a couple years where he had terrific numbers.  While he had Carson Wentz's old coach, he only had him for a couple years, after an injury forced him to redshirt his first year at Wyoming.  The bottom line is that he has had an inferior preparation for the pros in comparison to lots of college QBs.  Until he got to Wyoming, he got by mostly on his natural talent.  Who knows how much time the Wyoming staff could invest in helping him develop good habits and proper mechanics.  That background certainly does increase the risk of drafting him.  It is why the team that drafts him would be best served if they had ample risk tolerance.  He's been rumored to be the target of the Cleveland Browns.  Personally, I think that would be crazy.  It would be better if he could end up with a team like Arizona, which has a very good, if injury prone QB in Sam Bradford.  If Arizona can keep Bradford healthy for a couple season. Allen, if he responds to careful nurture and coaching, could end up being a great pick.  In Cleveland, he stands an excellent chance of being one more in a string of Cleveland drafting disasters. 

[Gray Beard]

Some teams are perennial winners. Some teams are perennial losers. I wonder if one of the differences between these two types of teams has to do with having the GM, HC, OC, DC, etc. all in agreement when it comes to hiring and firing players. 

 

Personally, I’m pretty nervous about the QBs in this draft. No consensus on the sure thing. Even if the Bills trade up to #2 as some people predict, it will still be a crap shoot. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Yes.

McDermott was hired pre draft.

BEANE (his name is Brandon Beane, not McBeane, that was a contraction made up of "McDermott-Beane " to imply that they both share in the decision making) did not begin until after the draft, I believe.

 

..pretty sure I know his name......the trio is McBeane/McD/McDaboll in MY book.......Irish connected.....

Edited April 8, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[SouthNYfan]

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

..pretty sure I know his name......the trio is McBeane/McD/McDaboll in MY book.......Irish connected.....

 

...but...

...that's not their names...

 

[Radar]

Is it just me or is this board attracting disagreeable and disrespectful posters. Sometimes I think sports fans are particularly infected by it.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

23 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

...but...

...that's not their names...

 

 

...I failed English Comprehension...now what?............

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, metzelaars_lives said:

Why don't you put up his numbers from 2016 as a redshirt sophomore, his first year starting as a college QB, when his ENTIRE group of skill position players (yes, literally every single one) were seniors and he was named the first team all-MWC QB and led to his being named the MWC preseason player of the year going into 2017?  He also led the Cowboys to an 8-5 record, a MWC championship game and a decent bowl appearance against a ranked BYU team, both of which they narrowly lost, a season after they went 2-10 with all the same guys as juniors (different QB).

 

What don't you understand about the numbers are not nothing? Haha

 

 

[Thurman#1]

Did this really need it's own thread? Same argument.

 

It's a legitimate argument, but it's been said before in almost exactly the same words, many many times.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Thurman#1