McShay Believes "High Probability" Buffalo Ultimately Trades to #2 (For Josh Allen)

[NewEraBills]

I'm not opposed to Allen at a certain spot in the draft, but I'll be honest if we trade all of the assets away to get to 2 to select Allen I'm going to be pretty pissed off.

[Floydboy12]

There seems to rarely be a sure thing with drafting a QB. This QB class seems to be the same in that regard. If the Bills are intent on giving up that much draft capital for the #2 , I think it's probably smart to draft the guy who has a cannon over the others. 

[thunderingsquid]

I didn't see this posted yet, Allen vs. Mayfield.

 

 

[2003Contenders]

This is interesting given that a couple of days ago there were reports that the Browns were planning on taking Allen #1 over all.

 

I think so much of this discussion from various executives about the Bills' plans stems from the likelihood that Beane has been speaking with multiple teams (including the Giants) about moving up in the draft. I still find it hard to believe that the Giants are on board with moving down from 2 to 12. I suppose they COULD use the bevvy of picks extorted from Buffalo to move back up a few spots if they want. But they may decide to place that onus on the Bills FIRST. That said, I would not be surprised if one of the following is a possibility:

 

1. Gettleman and Beane have a handshake deal in place: If the Bills can get to 5-7, then the Giants are willing to trade down 3-5 spots with the Bills.

 

2. The Giants draft a QB at 2, then they look to see if there is a player that they truly like when the Bills do pick (at 12 or wherever). If such a player exists, they trade the Bills the QB they drafted at #2 in exchange for the Bills pick plus additional first/second round picks that the Bills still have in their arsenal. This would be an inverse of what the Giants did to acquire Eli back in 2004.

 

Of course, the Giants could just decide to draft the guy they covet at #2 and refuse to make any trade.

 

So many things could happen between now and the day of the draft -- and especially DURING the draft. Beane is just trying to account for multiple possibilities.

[Midwest1981]

7 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I agree. The combination of big Mike and little Mike worked perfectly. That show was promo heavy but you could listen for hours and not even notice. They were knowledgeable and entertaining. From what I saw it looked like a 4 ring circus on the new show. Who was the smart guy that thought featuring Booger McFarland was a bright idea? He was the low light when he filled in on Mike and Mike. Couldn't afford Louis Riddick? An entertaining football guy who knows his stuff? Heck I'd rather listen to Stink than Booger.

 

Should have never separated the Mikes. Another thumbs down for the sports network.

I agree- I was excited for "Get Up" because I was an avid view of "Mike & Mike" and always found Greenberg to be more insightful.  But it's been a big disappointment so far.  They're debating topics like, "Who has the best handle in the NBA?"  Just dumb.

 

I don't like it as much but at least "Golic & Wingo" have kept the same format as "Mike & Mike":  talk about the events of the day/week and get quality and knowledgeable guests.

[billieve420]

6 minutes ago, TheTruthHurts said:

QB coach is also overrated. It's all about who you're coaching. These pro QBs have their own throwing coaches they pay.  

 

Unfortunately that is the biggest thing teams get wrong for the most important position in football. There is no development system in place for QBs to learn and get better. Guys coming out of college are not polished prospects but are expected to be at a certain level whether it be understanding offenses, reading defenses, throwing mechanics, footwork, etc..  

 

With reps being limited if you are not the starter it is difficult to get players to show progress as some may be slower than others. I hope the Bills are looking at all avenues in setting up an environment to assist in this development process. Whether it be VR training, recommending guys work with QB gurus when not with the team on aspects they want corrected. I think the more work put towards helping with this transition the greater chance for success there is. 

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, Midwest1981 said:

I agree- I was excited for "Get Up" because I was an avid view of "Mike & Mike" and always found Greenberg to be more insightful.  But it's been a big disappointment so far.  They're debating topics like, "Who has the best handle in the NBA?"  Just dumb.

 

I don't like it as much but at least "Golic & Wingo" have kept the same format as "Mike & Mike":  talk about the events of the day/week and get quality and knowledgeable guests.

I will have to check in on Golic I was never a fan of Wingo so I haven't given it a chance. Why did Greenberg agree to be 1/4 of the new show? I thought he was leaving Mike so he could featured. Seeing Greenberg check down to Beadle hurts my brain. He was at his best when talking actual sports and picking on the big lug.

[PIZ]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I love how most GM's and Talent Evaluators have Josh Allen as the #1 or #2 QB in this Draft. Yet, people on this board think he's EJ Manuel.

 

I'll trust the one's doing this for a living. If they desire Allen - stop being a whiny brat and get behind the positives in his game. They ARE there.

 

I for one, think Josh Allen will be a bust.  Then again, I thought Ryan Leaf should go #1, and Peyton Manning would be a bust.  I think I see your point.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by PIZ

[BillsFanForever19]

30 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

If there’s one thing I hate, it’s people that form their own opinions. 

 

Developing your own opinion is fine. Allen is not my 1st or 2nd choice either.

 

But the level of condemnation of Allen on this board as a prospect is downright absurd. 

[Midwest1981]

4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I will have to check in on Golic I was never a fan of Wingo so I haven't given it a chance. Why did Greenberg agree to be 1/4 of the new show? I thought he was leaving Mike so he could featured. Seeing Greenberg check down to Beadle hurts my brain. He was at his best when talking actual sports and picking on the big lug.

Yeah, I don't know- I'm perplexed by Greenberg's decision to be marginalized like he has been (when I thought the idea was for him to be featured, like you).  I know he wanted to work in Manhatten instead of Bristol, so that was part of it.

 

Honestly, I used to DVR "Mike & Mike" but don't think "Wingo & Golic" is consistently good enough to justify it; sometimes in the afternoons here at work I'll check out their podcasts from that morning and just listen if they had an Adam Schefter, Louis Riddick, Jeff Darlington, etc. on it.

 

"Mike & Mike" was great.  Since it's gone and "Get Up" is questionably watchable I'm glad I can at least listen to "The Rich Eisen Show" from 11a-2p CST while I'm working.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Midwest1981

[DFT]

I still think it’s Rosen.  I just can’t get my brain to go in any other direction.  We’ll see, but I trust my gut.  

[Heitz]

4 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Developing your own opinion is fine. Allen is not my 1st or 2nd choice either.

 

But the level of condemnation of Allen on this board as a prospect is downright absurd. 

 

It's interesting that so many know that Allen is going to be bust and know that Rosen is going to be a superstar. 

 

I'm going to be Homer, Trust the Process and get behind whomever we draft!

[ColoradoBills]

26 minutes ago, Mojo44 said:

 It seems to me that there are more than a few talent evaluator out there stating that  Allen is  Way overvalued and even bust material. So it’s not just those posters here who don’t like him. But I agree, there is something tantalizing about him . If the bills can get him at 12 I would be OK with that. I would not be OK with him trading up to get him. If they trade up it has to be for one of the other three top quarterbacks in my opinion.

 

Sitting at 12 and waiting may bring in other teams to jump the Bill's.

If they like him (or someone else) at 12 they may HAVE to try to trade up (maybe using TT's #65) to "seal the deal" at pick #8 or #9.

[gobills1212]

1 hour ago, Midwest1981 said:

Then why didn't we just draft Mahomes when he was there last year, instead of trading down with the Chiefs to let them take him, if the ultimate goal was to acquire that extra pick and then trade that and so much else (two 2nd's, two 3rd's, our 2019 1st seems in play) to move up the next year? 

 

It makes little sense to have demanded that the Chiefs pay appreciably less for their trade-up then we're being forced to pay now.  And for a prospect- if the target is in fact Allen- who if he fails had a glaringly obvious red flag in his (in)accuracy.

 

For the record, Watson was also available at 10 when we traded down.

Just fwiw...  I do agree mahomes Watson and Allen are similar in ways BUT it could have plenty to do with the kid as well. Maybe his skill set/personality is idea for them etc.

[BuffaloBaumer]

1 hour ago, Midwest1981 said:

Even a lot of "little draft"- like NDT Scouting- has surpassed McShay & Kiper in my mind in terms of quality of scouting/evaluation and draft prognostication.  So I don't take what either say with a tremendous amount of credence or credibility.

 

But I just thought I'd share that McShay said on Mike Greenberg's new show "Get Up" this morning that based on conversations he's had with league executives the expectation is that ultimately Beane gets a deal done with Gettleman to move up to pick #2.  His exact characterization:  "high probability."

 

EDIT:  20 minutes after this post "Get Up" added the McShay/Kiper interview from this morning to its podcast:

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive/_/id/22943353

 

On McShay and Kiper's last Podcast around the 20:35 mark Todd says what he also said today:

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22956078

 

It isn't the trading up part that's so troubling, though I personally think the cost is astronomical and prohibitive (I'd rather move up to 6 for Baker than 2 for Allen/Rosen and sacrifice half of the draft capital we've amassed; trading up to #2 will nearly wipe us clean).  It's that Allen is allegedly the target, someone who clearly and notoriously needs major refinement and might be a full two years from capably playing at this level, if it ever occurs.

 

This is good info that I actually don't mind in a new thread because it would be huge if happens. Just get to 2 and take whoever you think is best....I don't even care who it is anymore

[stony]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I love how most GM's and Talent Evaluators have Josh Allen as the #1 or #2 QB in this Draft. Yet, people on this board think he's EJ Manuel.

 

I'll trust the one's doing this for a living. If they desire Allen - stop being a whiny brat and get behind the positives in his game. They ARE there.

To be fair, I respect some of the draft gurus on TBD more than the knuckleheads on NFLN, Fox and ESPN. 

[McBean]

I believe we trade up to #2.

 

However, gut feeling this organization is in love with...Baker Mayfield. Not Josh Allen.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I love how most GM's and Talent Evaluators have Josh Allen as the #1 or #2 QB in this Draft. Yet, people on this board think he's EJ Manuel.

 

I'll trust the one's doing this for a living. If they desire Allen - stop being a whiny brat and get behind the positives in his game. They ARE there.

How would you know where GM’s have Allen ranked?   Do you just email them, and they send you their big board?

[Radar]

1 minute ago, Heitz said:

 

It's interesting that so many know that Allen is going to be bust and know that Rosen is going to be a superstar. 

 

I'm going to be Homer, Trust the Process and get behind whomever we draft!

I will too. Guys watch a few games on Saurday and become experts and think they know more than scouting or GM's. Example is Josh Allen. Bet no one of us fans know a tenth as much as scouting staffs do. Their opinions are most likely media driven as mine are. Take Kiper for example who I think watches a lot more college football than most of us and his draft board gets blown up most of the time. Sure they can generally predict who goes in the first round but where in the round not as precisely.

[mannc]

Am I the only one at TSW who would like to see a lifetime ban on the term “draft capital”?