Bing Bong Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 7 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Hmm, ok, I'll play. I'll speculate that as 2nd year players they add another year of experience that they can draw on to help get to know the ropes. After they play this year they will have compiled 2 years of playing experience. This will be helpful for the upcoming 3rd year. I'm sorry you are disappointed no one cares about your thread, but you have 2 things working against you. 1) there is no right answer. You said so in your 1st sentence the jury is still out.... so what are we really doing here? Speculation on speculatives? 2) this years draft has QBs the Bill's might actually take and is a month away. Incase you haven't noticed - that's where people are currently using their speculating skills. What's done is done, but what will be? And a QB?? THATS where at! Maybe start a thread about predicting where you will be or what you will be doing when you find out the Bill's traded up? Everyone is here and Twitter all the time... but ya gotta sleep and take care of the day to day. Will your wife wake you up after you have dozed off to tell you the news? Will you stumble into the bathroom at 4am and see the news on your phone? Will you be at some event and word starts spreading? Will you be at a parent teacher conference and feel ur phone blowing up in your pocket? I think we pay sssooo much attn, but if it happens it'll be when it's not expected and the ol mind is on something else. Huh? I just want to talk football and not draft. I like my bills team. Not bitter or anything lol. Don't be rude at my failure of a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I give it a incomplete because I want to see how Zay rebounds from this past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 After this season we should know a lot more. Jones will have every opportunity to show himself better than last season and Milano will be a starter and play a lot more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 9 hours ago, WideRightRevenge said: If you're grading the Bills against the rest of the league .... my grade is incomplete ... until the 2018 1st rounder is picked which we received from the Chiefs (though is/will be repackaged) .. that said .. .compared to past Bills drafts ... A+++++ ... granted kind of like the tallest midget award given past draft history (see below) for draft hell history ... but a stud CB, a starting LT in 2017 ... works for me compared to below. 2016 2 Reggie Ragland 2016 3 Adolphus Washington 2016 4 Cardale Jones 2016 5 Jonathan Williams 2016 6 Kolby Listenbee 2016 6 Kevon Seymour Year Rnd Player 2015 2 Ronald Darby 2015 3 John Miller 2015 5 Karlos Williams 2015 6 Tony Steward 2015 6 Nick O'Leary 2015 7 Dezmin Lewis Year Rnd Player 2014 1 Sammy Watkins 2014 2 Cyrus Kouandjio 2014 3 Preston Brown 2014 4 Ross Cockrell 2014 5 Cyril Richardson 2014 7 Randell Johnson 2014 7 Seantrel Henderson Year Rnd Player 2013 1 EJ Manuel 2013 2 Robert Woods 2013 2 Kiko Alonso 2013 3 Marquise Goodwin 2013 4 Duke Williams 2013 5 Jonathan Meeks 2013 6 Dustin Hopkins 2013 7 Chris Gragg Those are some awful drafts. Especially 2016. No wonder we have so many needs. Folks, 1 QB will not make up for 4 ****ty drafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Pete said: Those are some awful drafts. Especially 2016. No wonder we have so many needs. Folks, 1 QB will not make up for 4 ****ty drafts Yeah, that’s a pretty ugly sight. But...... 4 good drafts won’t win big without 1 good QB. Look at the miracle that happened in San Francisco. It’s not as simple as JUST adding a QB, but it’s a huge component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 We passed on not one but two franchise level QBs - and disturbingly (to me) is that they were looking hard to trade up to get Trubisky. IOW, the FO brain trust decided that Tyrod was sufficient to pass on Mahomes/Watson, but they clearly valued Trubisky considerably more than the two better QB prospects. If true, that shouldn't inspire confidence. That said, I don't grade drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Brown Eye Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 15 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said: Watson and Mahomes haven't played a half season combined. I would grade it B+ based on Trey, Dawkins, and the 2018 Number 1. Giving up day two picks after successfully moving down on day one prevents me from giving an A grade Trey is a top 5-8 DB in the league and can get better. A+ Jones is a bust so far. He may turn it around but as of now he is a bust and they gave up an extra pick to move up to get him. Terrible. D- Dawkins looks like he can handle the LT spot. He was above average but not great. B- (B+ player but slight downgrade again as they gave up an extra pick to move up) Milano wouldn't start if they had any decent other LBs. Peterman will be out of football in 2 years. He lacks the arm to play at the NFL level. I'm on par with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Huh? I just want to talk football and not draft. I like my bills team. Not bitter or anything lol. Don't be rude at my failure of a thread Can't argue w that! 1 hour ago, Tyrod's friend said: We passed on not one but two franchise level QBs - and disturbingly (to me) is that they were looking hard to trade up to get Trubisky. IOW, the FO brain trust decided that Tyrod was sufficient to pass on Mahomes/Watson, but they clearly valued Trubisky considerably more than the two better QB prospects. If true, that shouldn't inspire confidence. That said, I don't grade drafts. Whaley was on the t biscuit train... I think its smart on McD and maybe even to a lesser degree Doug in that it was known a new gm will be coming with his vision. Why saddle a new gm with someone elses choice? It's not like whaley was a qb whisperer and couldn't miss. Having the foresight to realize a new gm might like to pick his guy, the best thing to do was defer, gain ammo, and give him the best shot to do something w ot in a qb rich class. I'd think 99/100 times (exception passing on a cant miss stud) that's the smart thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Still way too early. But based on the players the Bills actually took, I would say that our draft looks pretty good so far. If nobody takes a step back, we will have landed at least 3 solid starters. - Tre White looks like a Pro-Bowl talent - Dion Dawkins could be a solid starting Left Tackle - Matt Milano flashed playmaking ability and could be a good starting Linebacker However, the 2017 Draft MUST also be judged by the players we passed on. Specifically Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. The Bills needed a QB. The Bills had a shot at either of them, and specifically traded away from the chance to take them. After one season, that decision isn't looking so hot. Especially since we could very likely miss out on the top 2018 prospects as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 4, 2018 Author Share Posted April 4, 2018 34 minutes ago, mjt328 said: Still way too early. But based on the players the Bills actually took, I would say that our draft looks pretty good so far. If nobody takes a step back, we will have landed at least 3 solid starters. - Tre White looks like a Pro-Bowl talent - Dion Dawkins could be a solid starting Left Tackle - Matt Milano flashed playmaking ability and could be a good starting Linebacker However, the 2017 Draft MUST also be judged by the players we passed on. Specifically Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson. The Bills needed a QB. The Bills had a shot at either of them, and specifically traded away from the chance to take them. After one season, that decision isn't looking so hot. Especially since we could very likely miss out on the top 2018 prospects as well. My approach was more about just who we got not who we missed. i'm sure the team that took the next CB is PO'd. Plus mcd needs the QB of his choice. As we discussed we really had no idea who was drafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 When you draft a starting cornerback and LT without any pick in the top 20 it's no less than an A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Charles Romes said: When you draft a starting cornerback and LT without any pick in the top 20 it's no less than an A Tre was like a 23. But I agree for a stretch we constantly drafted DBs. Not how you beat Brady it's about getting pressure. Something Whaley understood and rex over weighted in his game plan. 3 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: We passed on not one but two franchise level QBs - and disturbingly (to me) is that they were looking hard to trade up to get Trubisky. IOW, the FO brain trust decided that Tyrod was sufficient to pass on Mahomes/Watson, but they clearly valued Trubisky considerably more than the two better QB prospects. If true, that shouldn't inspire confidence. That said, I don't grade drafts. Why do we think mahomes is so good? Missing Watson was upsetting, but chiefs fans didn't like the rumors of his practice play Edited April 5, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, gobills1212 said: I think its smart on McD and maybe even to a lesser degree Doug in that it was known a new gm will be coming with his vision. Why saddle a new gm with someone elses choice? It's not like whaley was a qb whisperer and couldn't miss. Having the foresight to realize a new gm might like to pick his guy, the best thing to do was defer, gain ammo, and give him the best shot to do something w ot in a qb rich class. I'd think 99/100 times (exception passing on a cant miss stud) that's the smart thing to do. Then he probably shouldn't have drafted anyone. What in the world sort of revisionist thinking is this? He had foresight to not draft quality players so he wouldn't upset the new GM??? You ... you are joking here right? I'm missing the sarcasm button or something. Am I being punked here? 58 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Tre was like a 23. But I agree for a stretch we constantly drafted DBs. Not how you beat Brady it's about getting pressure. Something Whaley understood and rex over weighted in his game plan. Why do we think mahomes is so good? Missing Watson was upsetting, but chiefs fans didn't like the rumors of his practice play Maybe fans didn't like his practice play, but the last game of the 2017 was so good the Chiefs FO jettisoned Alex Smith. I guess we'll find that out as the season goes on. The larger point is that they would have moved up to #2 or 3 to get Trubisky and yet leave DeShaun Watson undrafted - and especially, those decisions juxtaposed to which of the QBs would have been a preferred choice/not preferred choice over Tyrod Taylor. Edited April 5, 2018 by Tyrod's friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said: Then he probably shouldn't have drafted anyone. What in the world sort of revisionist thinking is this? He had foresight to not draft quality players so he wouldn't upset the new GM??? You ... you are joking here right? I'm missing the sarcasm button or something. Am I being punked here? Maybe fans didn't like his practice play, but the last game of the 2017 was so good the Chiefs FO jettisoned Alex Smith. I guess we'll find that out as the season goes on. The larger point is that they would have moved up to #2 or 3 to get Trubisky and yet leave DeShaun Watson undrafted - and especially, those decisions juxtaposed to which of the QBs would have been a preferred choice/not preferred choice over Tyrod Taylor. Never cease to amaze. Your latest attempt at humor has sadly shown how little you are working with and why everyone is always trying to catch you up. The facts.... You are a new coach ✔ You know OR have a VERY good idea the person you are working with won't be your GM in the coming weeks ✔ You have a semblance of a plan that won't involve said GM✔ There is what is considered to be a top qb class (maybe even then more than now) coming out the following year ✔ You have a placeholder an who will suffice for a year and has taken a paycut✔ You added a 1st rd pick by trading back✔ Armed with these facts, you are honestly admitting, publicly, that YOU cant see why it might have been a good idea to kick the can? Get your gm, get some ammo, get a plan AND THEN make what could potentially be a job altering decision? I gotta tell ya - you've had some pretty bonkers takes but I've always at least respected I could see where you were coming from. IF you HONESTLY cant see the reasoning and thought process behind this I am legit worried as for the amount of posts you have here, there shouldn't be this big of a learning curve. This isnt even opinion based... I mean, it just is what it is. My wife gets it and has conversations at this level. I'm hoping you've grossly misunderstood something bc this is just basics man. Basics!! I want even trying to dog you before, but after a response like that... I dont even know man... Edited April 5, 2018 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, gobills1212 said: Never cease to amaze. Your latest attempt at humor has sadly shown how little you are working with and why everyone is always trying to catch you up. The facts.... You are a new coach ✔ You know OR have a VERY good idea the person you are working with won't be your GM in the coming weeks ✔ You have a semblance of a plan that won't involve said GM✔ There is what is considered to be a top qb class (maybe even then more than now) coming out the following year ✔ You have a placeholder an who will suffice for a year and has taken a paycut✔ You added a 1st rd pick by trading back✔ Armed with these facts, you are honestly admitting, publicly, that YOU cant see why it might have been a good idea to kick the can? Get your gm, get some ammo, get a plan AND THEN make what could potentially be a job altering decision? I gotta tell ya - you've had some pretty bonkers takes but I've always at least respected I could see where you were coming from. IF you HONESTLY cant see the reasoning and thought process behind this I am legit worried as for the amount of posts you have here, there shouldn't be this big of a learning curve. This isnt even opinion based... I mean, it just is what it is. My wife gets it and has conversations at this level. I'm hoping you've grossly misunderstood something bc this is just basics man. Basics!! I want even trying to dog you before, but after a response like that... I dont even know man... The draft is about accumulating talent. That is the job at hand. You are not forcing the hand of anyone, you are doing your job. Is it possible you'd like to kick the can? Sure. It's possible. Anything is possible but I think you'd be hard pressed to get a GM to admit that he was specifically taking a lesser player because he thought another GM wouldn't like the pick. By your absolutely insane logic, you bypass Andrew Luck or Ray Lewis because the next GM might now want that guy. Just cede your entire process. Beyond this, apparently the GM WAS TRYING TO MOVE UP TO GET TRUBISKY. So apparently it's okay to get that QB, but not a different QB? Did you specifically avoid that point in your hurry to belittle someone else ... which is, let's face it, the way you like to push yourself around here? My sense of humor is an attempt to keep things light and not take things too seriously. Whether or not you respect me or someone else here is not of a concern to me. And stop noticing how much someone else posts. It's creepy. Edit: just going back to see some of YOUR posts ... it seems you spend an awful, awful lot of time taking personal shots at other posters without really having anything worthwhile to say. You really are a sad, sad little man. Edited April 5, 2018 by Tyrod's friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: The draft is about accumulating talent. That is the job at hand. You are not forcing the hand of anyone, you are doing your job. Is it possible you'd like to kick the can? Sure. It's possible. Anything is possible but I think you'd be hard pressed to get a GM to admit that he was specifically taking a lesser player because he thought another GM wouldn't like the pick. By your absolutely insane logic, you bypass Andrew Luck or Ray Lewis because the next GM might now want that guy. Just cede your entire process. Beyond this, apparently the GM WAS TRYING TO MOVE UP TO GET TRUBISKY. So apparently it's okay to get that QB, but not a different QB? Did you specifically avoid that point in your hurry to belittle someone else ... which is, let's face it, the way you like to push yourself around here? My sense of humor is an attempt to keep things light and not take things too seriously. Whether or not you respect me or someone else here is not of a concern to me. And stop noticing how much someone else posts. It's creepy. Edit: just going back to see some of YOUR posts ... it seems you spend an awful, awful lot of time taking personal shots at other posters without really having anything worthwhile to say. You really are a sad, sad little man. Bring your A game, or dont bother. The fact that I laid points out line by line and you still have a difficult time keeping up leads me to believe you aren't reading, or your own opinions have closed your mind off to the degree you might as well not even bother. For instance, what are you even talking about passing on andrew luck or ray Lewis? How do they enter a conversation in relation to last years draft? In fact, the ONLY personal shot I've ever taken was at you. And honestly, there are so many excellent posts and great fans here I wish my cynicism never had to be expressed. There is however a vast group of fans that post here. Some are super football smart and are kind enough to share their knowledge with us. Others take their time to make sure we are essentially as well informed as we want to be by taking their time to post the lasest news and updates. Some fans aren't as informed and use this as a form to learn and grow their football knowledge. That's totally cool too! Ya gotta start somewhere. My cynicism shines and comes into play when someone like yourself prides themselves in their knowledge and understanding but they aren't quite there yet. Everyone has an opinion and that's great! It's what makes a place like this tick. It's when the opinions turn to closemindness that really gets me. You've said some of the most outlandish things out of anyone on here, which, I maintain is fine. Say what you want. To each their own. You cant call me creepy for reading a post YOU signed YOUR NAME to and remembering it bc of how outlandish it was. You are posting on a message board. Like it or not, you are judged by what you type. Again... just crazy logic. But, when you double down and start with the nonsense and then decide you opinion is the end all be all and cant even keep up with the conversation you initiated? My patience runs out. Honestly, I'm a nice guy... you just rub me the wrong way. Case in point your latest response. Not once did I say or infer they specifically passed on talent. I did however say, they/he had a plan and seems to have executed it quite well. Do you not pay attention to how the circle of life with regimes generally works? Again.. if you want to have a big boy convo (which again, you initiatied) this SHOULDNT need to be explained. You honestly cant see how much better a position this team is in this year bc of the way McD handled last years draft? That he had the foresight to see a strong class and how obtaining an extra pick (and still landing a stud mind you) would set this team of going forward once HIS GM was in place? And against my better judgment bc I'm a nice guy, I'll STILL give you the benefit of the doubt and say EVEN if you still cant see how this situation came to be or think it was a bad plan... the fact that there was a plan and it was adhered to is leaps and bounds above the last regime. These are all things we could have a great conversation about if you weren't still stuck on something about passing on talent?? So if you need to call someone a sad man to deflect the fact that you are in over your head fine. Go spend sometime in the minors and when ya wanna give it another go - I'll be here for ya. Besides, the least I can do is help... Edited April 5, 2018 by gobills1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 15 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: You ... you are joking here right? I'm missing the sarcasm button or something. Am I being punked here? Why are you so mad all the time 12 hours ago, gobills1212 said: In fact, the ONLY personal shot I've ever taken was at you. He can certainly dish it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 17 hours ago, Charles Romes said: When you draft a starting cornerback and LT without any pick in the top 20 it's no less than an A Don't forget to add in the potential value of Pick #22... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 19 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: We passed on not one but two franchise level QBs - and disturbingly (to me) is that they were looking hard to trade up to get Trubisky. IOW, the FO brain trust decided that Tyrod was sufficient to pass on Mahomes/Watson, but they clearly valued Trubisky considerably more than the two better QB prospects. If true, that shouldn't inspire confidence. That said, I don't grade drafts. It's cool though because we got a quarterback with guts and fearlessness in Peterman. Unlike those coward QBs like Brady Brees Rodgers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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