Virgil Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) This isn’t specially about us trading up with the Giants as much as it’s about Bean and Gettleman. Are there any honest conversations going on between GM’s or are they all just playing cloak and dagger? I recognize that this is there job and income, which is determined by their draft success. So, not that I think this will happen, if the Giants say they want to stay at 2 for Allen and the Bills trade ahead of them to steal him, that could cost Gettleman his job. I get that side. Even though they have a personal relationship. But on the flip, do you think there’s conversations like: Bills - You looking to trade out of 2? Giants - We have a guy we want, if he falls, we are staying and taking him. If he’s gone, we will trade. Bills - We will offer you _______ Giants - okay, we will see what happens. I feel like there has to be a certain level of honesty out there or people might miss out. You have to show some good faith to make someone be more inclined to trade with you. While it won’t happen, if the Broncos don’t want a QB, I feel like the Giants, Broncos, and Bills could all make a trade together that benefits each other, but they don’t want to show their hand to each other. Broncos have holes, Giants want guys who will be there at 5, and the Bills have picks. If either of them want QB’s, it’s moot. If they don’t, it makes almost too much sense. It’s just frustrating to think about what probably won’t happen because people can’t be transparent with what they want. But I get why. Edited April 3, 2018 by Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Between GMs I think there's a healthy mixture of honesty and gamesmanship. These guys are busy and aren't going to waste each other's time, but by the same token they don't show all their cards. The infamous Buddy Nix phone call gave a little bit of insight, basically guys having a small talk conversation while they talk around different players. I think these guys are pretty good at separating work and personal relationships when it comes down to a hard negotiation. I've seen articles about how the phone calls are almost dead in sports, almost everything gets worked out in text. Teams know what other teams need. If the Bills are calling someone they have a good idea it's for a QB. If the Broncos actually actively engage in conversation, it's a pretty clear sign they are leaning away from QB. But relationships are very important, there were plenty of stories about Sachi Brown's regime offensively lowballing players in FA and teams in trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 The Broncos/Bills are the best example. If the Broncos want to trade back, they know we want a QB. What’s the line to make us think they are okay staying at 5 and is calling their bluff? It’s such a delicate negotiation to me. They want our picks, we want our QB if there. I’d hate to end with neither of us blinking and no one gets what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I'm sure some smokescreens are put up, but I get the sense that NFL GM circles are very small, so while a GM might be able to pull one over on another GM, if it is really shady the way they do it, then that might be the end of general willingness to deal with that person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{::'KayCeeS::} Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: I'm sure some smokescreens are put up, but I get the sense that NFL GM circles are very small, so while a GM might be able to pull one over on another GM, if it is really shady the way they do it, then that might be the end of general willingness to deal with that person. This. Think about it: how many NFL GM's exist in the world? and they don't talk? as in "[insert name here] f'ed me over on this, he's a douche". All of a sudden, no one wants to deal with that guy. It's a competitive but definitely collegial atmosphere. It has to be, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, Virgil said: This isn’t specially about us trading up with the Giants as much as it’s about Bean and Gettleman. Are there any honest conversations going on between GM’s or are they all just playing cloak and dagger? I recognize that this is there job and income, which is determined by their draft success. So, not that I think this will happen, if the Giants say they want to stay at 2 for Allen and the Bills trade ahead of them to steal him, that could cost Gettleman his job. I get that side. Even though they have a personal relationship. But on the flip, do you think there’s conversations like: Bills - You looking to trade out of 2? Giants - We have a guy we want, if he falls, we are staying and taking him. If he’s gone, we will trade. Bills - We will offer you _______ Giants - okay, we will see what happens. I feel like there has to be a certain level of honesty out there or people might miss out. You have to show some good faith to make someone be more inclined to trade with you. While it won’t happen, if the Broncos don’t want a QB, I feel like the Giants, Broncos, and Bills could all make a trade together that benefits each other, but they don’t want to show their hand to each other. Broncos have holes, Giants want guys who will be there at 5, and the Bills have picks. If either of them want QB’s, it’s moot. If they don’t, it makes almost too much sense. It’s just frustrating to think about what probably won’t happen because people can’t be transparent with what they want. But I get why. I believe many in the industry have honest relationships. That is how they sustain those relationships. Each discussion is probably different with regarding the transparency, but, nonetheless they are honest with their closer relationships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: I'm sure some smokescreens are put up, but I get the sense that NFL GM circles are very small, so while a GM might be able to pull one over on another GM, if it is really shady the way they do it, then that might be the end of general willingness to deal with that person. Valid point. Future relationships are important. It’s hard to not think we have a good relationship with the Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals. Hopefully the Giants enter that fold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Virgil said: Valid point. Future relationships are important. It’s hard to not think we have a good relationship with the Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals. Hopefully the Giants enter that fold We clearly have a good relationship with the Browns too (some likely bleed over from Dorsey with the Chiefs). There was a story that Hue gave Beane insight into McCarron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 GMs have working relationships just like the rest of us guys with little jobs. Some of those are beneficial and some are not. Beane has a friend at two and it's rumored that his friend won't be taking a QB. It's a perfect match. It's happening. At worst the Bills get to 7 and take Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: We clearly have a good relationship with the Browns too (some likely bleed over from Dorsey with the Chiefs). There was a story that Hue gave Beane insight into McCarron. I knew I was forgetting someone. Maybe it’s because trades are more common, but it does feel like we have a large inner circle of friends now. Moreso than I can remember Edited April 3, 2018 by Virgil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Virgil said: Valid point. Future relationships are important. It’s hard to not think we have a good relationship with the Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals. Hopefully the Giants enter that fold Browns and Panthers, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said: Browns and Panthers, too. You think so with the Panthers? I wonder how good that relationship is with what’s happened recently there and the transition of ownership Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Virgil said: You think so with the Panthers? I wonder how good that relationship is with what’s happened recently there and the transition of ownership Maybe less so than it had been, but yes. The Benjamin trade happened. The GM Hurney has been with the organization for a while, and I would imagine there is overall familiarity between OBD and the Panthers front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I speculate that there has to be some level of honesty when it comes to dealing. On the Colts-Jets trade -- I am sure Beane and Ballard had an on-going dialog. The Bills made a not to exceed offer and Ballard got a better deal from the Jets. My speculation is that with the draft being dealing for picks, it's even more collaborative than a player trade. They go by the value chart but as you rise in draft position there is a premium to the value chart. Again, pure speculation, but I firmly believe Gettleman and Beane have a deal. Beane has to acquire either 6 or 7 to make the deal happen and then give up more assets to get to #2. It will all happen in 15 minutes on draft night if the Browns pick Darnold and the Giants want to move down. I also speculate that Beane let #3 go because Gettleman said 6 or 7 with next year's first is fine to get the #2.... This kind of "honesty" translates to the corporate world. I was involved in a fairly large acquisition that happened when a CEO who was being acquired called my CEO at the time (both had NDAs with the acquiring company) and my CEO decided he could better the offer. They got the proposed acquiring CEO on the phone -- talked about the offer from my CEO and the acquiring CEO did not want to match. We ended up with the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I think the honest GMs simply avoid saying anything substantial. What they say may be the truth but it's edited and far from full disclosure. And sometimes carefully chosen truths can be misleading. The dishonest GMs will willingly lie to gain an advantage. When I was in the army, I took an oath "not to lie, cheat or steal - nor tolerate those who do." Yet combat operational orders often contained a "deception plan" for how we'll deceive the enemy. We didn't necessarily lie to anyone but we did everything we could to make the enemy think we were doing something different than what we were actually doing. I'm sure many GMs have active deception plans this time of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 22 minutes ago, Commonsense said: GMs have working relationships just like the rest of us guys with little jobs. Some of those are beneficial and some are not. Beane has a friend at two and it's rumored that his friend won't be taking a QB. It's a perfect match. It's happening. At worst the Bills get to 7 and take Mayfield. Lots of twitter NFL "insiders" now saying the Jets are targeting Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Just now, PIZ said: Lots of twitter NFL "insiders" now saying the Jets are targeting Mayfield. If the Jets are choosing between Rosen and Mayfield I would guess 70% Mayfield, 30% Rosen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Everybody lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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