Saban's response to Rosen's comments regarding the demands of college football

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, horned dogs said:

This is typical of D1 coaches more now than ever. As a former D1 hockey player at an IVY league school 30-35 years ago, and having my son take the same path in the last few years, let me shed a little perspective on it.

 

When I played, we had practice at 5:00 and it ended at 6:30-6:45. You headed over to the rink about 4:15- a short walk.  Shower and dinner after practice back home no later than 7:45. Total time per day 3.5 hours. Occasional community service commitments on weekend.

 

My son's experience was like a job and is viewed like that by the players and coach. Between meetings with coaches, lifting , special instruction ,watching film, practice, time with the trainer and doing many community type events, he had way more time invested. Hell after the games they were required to ride exercise bikes while family members waited for them. He easily averaged 6 hours a day on his sport. During this 6 hours, people who are not playing sports have a huge time advantage.

 

Summers are different too. My sons coach does NOT permit players to do summer internships! He wants them to be in town and working out. On more than couple occasions the coach screamed at the team ," I thought I was getting hockey players and instead I got students!" This is no kidding and at an IVY league institution. People have no idea how different it is.

 

People who think it is no different now, have  forgotten how big a business college sports have become. Careers, big contracts, egos, getting a better job, high stakes all play into it more than ever. And, Nick Saban is one of the worst I'm sure. Josh Rosen 1000% correct. Hell when i played we had some engineers on the team (I was one), Now-none..nadda..it doesn't work period end of it.

 

By the way, I applaud you and your son. Impressive to be really smart and also be a really good athlete,

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Rosen from article : "Picking a difficult major and playing high-end college football is practically impossible, he said.

 

Saban has an undergraduate degree in business. Is that a difficult major?

 

3 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

No.  It is not.

 

Especially not at Kent State in the early 1970s.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Robert James

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

Rosen is right. Saban is wrong. Alabama is a cupcake academic school, while UCLA is not. And the amount of academic hours that a prestiguous UCLA major will require, won't even be close to the amount of hours that a run of the mill Alabama major will require.

 

Not all majors there are cupcakes. Some are some different, high ranking programs there.

[Robert James]

From the article:

"Saban cited statistics of players who players who got their degrees before finishing their playing careers."

 

Not terribly helpful for the vast majority of players who don't have a high-paying job and 5-6 months off every year after ending their college football careers without a degree. 

 

As for those who manage to play football and get a degree Saban seems to think that a small minority of players getting a degree before they leave college is good enough:

 

From the article:

"Again, Saban circled back to the graduation rates. It currently has 12 players who already earned undergraduate degrees."

[KGun12TD]

Satan is an a hole and a product of great recruiting! He’s a good coach and that’s all. He couldn’t coach men (see his NFL career) hence why he went back to boys.

 

who care what he thinks or say!

[Sweats]

5 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

Excellent comments from the greatest college coach of all time.

 

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2017/08/nick_saban_football_isnt_any_m.html

 

 

Yeah, I’m just going to go ahead and say that Bear Bryant was the greatest of all time.

[Sky Diver]

8 minutes ago, Robert James said:

From the article:

"Saban cited statistics of players who players who got their degrees before finishing their playing careers."

 

Not terribly helpful for the vast majority of players who don't have a high-paying job and 5-6 months off every year after ending their college football careers without a degree. 

 

As for those who manage to play football and get a degree Saban seems to think that a small minority of players getting a degree before they leave college is good enough:

 

From the article:

"Again, Saban circled back to the graduation rates. It currently has 12 players who already earned undergraduate degrees."

 

I’m not sure what you are saying. These are players  that earned their degrees before they used up their football eligibility. Some earnee their undergraduate degree in less than 4 yrs.

[Robert James]

13 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

I’m not sure what you are saying. These are players  that earned their degrees before they used up their football eligibility. Some earnee their undergraduate degree in less than 4 yrs.

I misunderstood, thanks for pointing it out.  I still think the generally-low graduation rates for college players support what Rosen said.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Robert James

[Sky Diver]

5 minutes ago, Robert James said:

I misunderstood, thanks for pointing it out.  I still think the generally-low graduation rates for college players supports what Rosen said.

 

Alabama’s graduation rate for football players is about 84%.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/108298402

[xxxxxxxx]

41 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Alabama’s graduation rate for football players is about 84%.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/108298402

The same article quotes their players academic standing as 'reasonable', not good. Basically, Alabama is a C+ academic school, acceptable but not good or excellent.

 

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Not all majors there are cupcakes. Some are some different, high ranking programs there.

That goes for every post secondary school, the point Rosen is making is that you will find few Alabama football players in demanding programs. And his point is accurate.

Edited April 3, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Bills757]

6 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

The same article quotes their players academic standing as 'reasonable', not good. Basically, Alabama is a C+ academic school, acceptable but not good or excellent.

 

That goes for every post secondary school, the point Rosen is making is that you will find few Alabama football players in demanding programs. And his point is accurate.

Rosen's point about Alabama players not majoring in difficult academic programs is nothing new.  Statistically speaking, for forever and a day, the better the player, the less likely he is to tackle engineering (or pre-med etc) as his major.  I'm just not sure why Rosen thinks he's breaking new ground with his comments.

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Alabama’s graduation rate for football players is about 84%.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/108298402

True, but I don't think Rosen's comments on the difficulty of college football combined with serious academics was focused specifically on Alabama.  He did mention their SAT requirements, but his comments were not generally focused directly on Alabama.  And, in fairness, most of top football schools find ways to get their players through by finding ways to soften their academic demands.  

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

My understanding is that all financial aid is need based. Do they bend the rules for athletes?

 

It’s category and semantics based just like the term “student athlete”.  Both provide financial assistance whether it’s a scholarship or financial aid.

 

No....they don’t bend rules for athletes.  It doesn’t matter how good you are if you don’t the grades.  Not the case for Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Florida, USC etc.....

6 minutes ago, Robert James said:

True, but I don't think Rosen's comments on the difficulty of college football combined with serious academics was focused specifically on Alabama.  He did mention their SAT requirements, but his comments were not generally focused directly on Alabama.  And, in fairness, most of top football schools find ways to get their players through by finding ways to soften their academic demands.  

 

I believe OSU created an AIDS awareness class for Andy Katzenmoyer or something like that just to get him eligible to play.

[Sky Diver]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

The same article quotes their players academic standing as 'reasonable', not good. Basically, Alabama is a C+ academic school, acceptable but not good or excellent.

 

That goes for every post secondary school, the point Rosen is making is that you will find few Alabama football players in demanding programs. And his point is accurate.

 

Rosen has no clue what he’s talking about regarding UA, and suggesting that UA isn’t a strong academic institution is ridiculous.

 

More than 40 percent of UA’s 7,407-member freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT, and 38 percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class. The entering class in 2017 carries an average high school grade-point average of 3.72, with 34 percent having a high school GPA of 4.0 or higher.

 

Fifty-one UA students have been named Goldwater Scholars, including four in 2017. The University of Alabama has produced a total of 15 Rhodes Scholars, 16 Truman Scholars, 32 Hollings Scholars and 11 Boren Scholars.

 

UA is perennially ranked a top school for enrolling National Merit Scholars.

 

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/20130206/ua-tops-list-of-freshman-national-merit-scholars

 

[Sky Diver]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It’s category and semantics based just like the term “student athlete”.  Both provide financial assistance whether it’s a scholarship or financial aid.

 

No....they don’t bend rules for athletes.  It doesn’t matter how good you are if you don’t the grades.  Not the case for Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Florida, USC etc.....

 

I believe OSU created an AIDS awareness class for Andy Katzenmoyer or something like that just to get him eligible to play.

 

“Ivy League schools provide financial aid to students, including athletes, only on the basis of financial need as determined by each institution’s Financial Aid Office. There are no academic or athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.”

 

https://ivyleague.com/sports/2017/7/28/information-psa-index.aspx

 

If you are a top athlete, I am sure that it increases your chances of enrollment.

 

 

[stony]

20 minutes ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Rosen has no clue what he’s talking about regarding UA, and suggesting that UA isn’t a strong academic institution is ridiculous.

 

More than 40 percent of UA’s 7,407-member freshman class scored 30 or higher on the ACT, and 38 percent were in the top 10 percent of their high school graduating class. The entering class in 2017 carries an average high school grade-point average of 3.72, with 34 percent having a high school GPA of 4.0 or higher.

 

Fifty-one UA students have been named Goldwater Scholars, including four in 2017. The University of Alabama has produced a total of 15 Rhodes Scholars, 16 Truman Scholars, 32 Hollings Scholars and 11 Boren Scholars.

 

UA is perennially ranked a top school for enrolling National Merit Scholars.

 

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/20130206/ua-tops-list-of-freshman-national-merit-scholars

 

Does Saban advise his players to skip classes like he skipped out on Miami? GD coward.

 

Boom...roasted.  

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

“Ivy League schools provide financial aid to students, including athletes, only on the basis of financial need as determined by each institution’s Financial Aid Office. There are no academic or athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.”

 

https://ivyleague.com/sports/2017/7/28/information-psa-index.aspx

 

If you are a top athlete, I am sure that it increases your chances of enrollment.

 

 

 

Just like if you’re a top Medical prodigy...it increases your chances.  So what’s your point?

 

Do you think a guy who writes at an 8th grade level gets into Harvard if he can ball?

 

I also said semantics.  If your tuition is paid for in full or partial, who cares what it’s termed?  People go to Ivy League schools for free all the time.

[Sky Diver]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Just like if you’re a top Medical prodigy...it increases your chances.  So what’s your point?

 

Do you think a guy who writes at an 8th grade level gets into Harvard if he can ball?

 

I also said semantics.  If your tuition is paid for in full or partial, who cares what it’s termed?  People go to Ivy League schools for free all the time.

 

My point? Since the competition is so stiff and grades/test scores are so evenly matched, you need a hook like being a top athlete (or a medical prodigy) to get into an Ivy League school.

 

Ivy League schools don’t offer academic or athletic scholarships, however, they tend to be very generous with need based aid.

 

I’m confused where we are in disagreement.

 

This kid made the news for turning down all 8 Ivy’s for Alabama. Alabama has a good track record for enrolling students in medical school. I suspect he’ll have no problem. I know a UA student who got his ChemE degree at UA, and his medical degree at UAB. He will be interning at Harvard. There are plenty of Ivy League caliber students at UA.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/ronald-nelson-turned-down-every-ivy-league-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Sky Diver

[Royale with Cheese]

Time ranks Alabama as #557.

http://time.com/money/best-colleges/profile/the-university-of-alabama/

 

Forbes #264

https://www.forbes.com/colleges/the-university-of-alabama/

 

US News #110

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-alabama-1051

 

Alabama is a good school academically.   Not great, not poor, it’s a good.

 

Most powerhouse schools are very “flexible” getting their top athletes.  Most aren’t getting in if they aren’t a top athlete.  The minimum SAT when I was in school to play in the NCAA was 820 but scores are changed now.  So whatever is equivalent to 820 now, would get you into UA if you’re a good athlete....not a regular student.  The topic needs to be split between student athletes and academic students.

 

Rosen is correct when he says “demanding” degrees and full time football don’t mix.  A teammate of mine was at a crossroads as an Architecture major.  He was required to be in the lab a minimum amount of hours.  It was impossible while playing ball....he had to give up ball.  I’m sure he’s not the only one who has sacrificed.  I have a feeling Marcell Dareus was never put in a crossroads like that.  He’s there to play football first.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Sky Diver said:

 

You are putting words in my mouth.

 

My point? Since the competition is so stiff and grades/test scores are so evenly matched, you need a hook like being a top athlete (or a medical prodigy) to get into an Ivy League school.

 

Ivy League schools don’t offer academic or athletic scholarships, however, they tend to be very generous with need based aid.

 

I’m confused where we are in disagreement.

 

This kid made the news for turning down all 8 Ivy’s for Alabama. Alabama has a good track record for enrolling students in medical school. I suspect he’ll have no problem. I know a UA student who got his ChemE degree at UA, and his medical degree at UAB. He will be interning at Harvard. There are plenty of Ivy League caliber students at UA.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/ronald-nelson-turned-down-every-ivy-league-school-for-university-of-alabama-2015-5

 

 

 

 

Hes not the only student to turn down Ivy League Schools to go to another school.  

 

There are are plenty of Ivy League caliber students at UGA, Auburn, Clemson etc....I’m not sure what your point proves.

 

Myron Rolle was a Rhodes Scholar and now is a Neuroscientist I believe.  Does that mean FSU is a top academic school?  

 

Its not at the same level as a powerhouse college football program getting someone in.

Minimum NCAA requirements get you into any top program.  It’s not just football....it’s basketball too.  There are illiterate players in both sports playing on teams and somehow got into school.

[Sky Diver]

18 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Time ranks Alabama as #557.

http://time.com/money/best-colleges/profile/the-university-of-alabama/

 

Forbes #264

https://www.forbes.com/colleges/the-university-of-alabama/

 

US News #110

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/university-of-alabama-1051

 

Alabama is a good school academically.   Not great, not poor, it’s a good.

 

Most powerhouse schools are very “flexible” getting their top athletes.  Most aren’t getting in if they aren’t a top athlete.  The minimum SAT when I was in school to play in the NCAA was 820 but scores are changed now.  So whatever is equivalent to 820 now, would get you into UA if you’re a good athlete....not a regular student.  The topic needs to be split between student athletes and academic students.

 

Rosen is correct when he says “demanding” degrees and full time football don’t mix.  A teammate of mine was at a crossroads as an Architecture major.  He was required to be in the lab a minimum amount of hours.  It was impossible while playing ball....he had to give up ball.  I’m sure he’s not the only one who has sacrificed.  I have a feeling Marcell Dareus was never put in a crossroads like that.  He’s there to play football first.

 

 

 

 

Frankly those rankings don’t mean much. Have you ever looked at the criteria?

 

Alabama’s 25th to 75th percentile ACT scores are 23 and 32. The average ACT is 27. 40% of students have an ACT of 30 or greater. However, as you can tell from the 25th percentile score, UA also enrolls  a lot of low stat students. Serving a broad range of students lowers it’s ranking. Does that diminish the quality of the education students get there? I don’t think so.

 

If you have a 33 ACT and a 3.5 GPA, UA gives you $25,000 yr. If you are in engineering, they give you another $2,500 yr. Assuming no financial aid, you can get a fine education at UA for about a quarter of the cost of an Ivy League school.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Sky Diver