Jerry Sullivan: Ralph Wilson Was A Cheapskate

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, cd1 said:

Ha Ha Ha what a joke

 

We got a saying around here:

 

Those who laugh at Polish Dave,

do their laughing from the grave.

 

 

 

 

[RochesterRob]

31 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Ralph was a smart  business man which led to his team staying put.  We should hate him for it.

 

Modell was a bad business man which led to his team moving.  We should love him for it.

 

Did I get that right?

 

Drunk Bobby was an epic fan before he bought the team that had been saved by Ralph.  Before Ralph was even dead he was planning to help Bon Jersey move Ralph's team.  I suppose that means we should love him.

 

And that epically selfish gift of 900m.  That was a doozy.  What a jerk.  And all that research money that helped old time rival Nick B and ultimately Kevin Everett?  There is a special place in hell just for that I suppose.  

 

37 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Ralph was a smart  business man which led to his team staying put.  We should hate him for it.

 

Modell was a bad business man which led to his team moving.  We should love him for it.

 

Did I get that right?

 

Drunk Bobby was an epic fan before he bought the team that had been saved by Ralph.  Before Ralph was even dead he was planning to help Bon Jersey move Ralph's team.  I suppose that means we should love him.

 

And that epically selfish gift of 900m.  That was a doozy.  What a jerk.  And all that research money that helped old time rival Nick B and ultimately Kevin Everett?  There is a special place in hell just for that I suppose.  

  I was not sure where to throw in this nitpick but here goes anyways.  Other than being from the same era I don't know that Ralph and Art Modell overly compare.  Modell owned a small set of department stores in Cleveland not unlike Sibley's in the Rochester, NY area.  While Ralph was not a titan in a financial sense his wealth was greater than Modell's.  This gave Ralph more flexibility in the 1960's and 1970's such as bailing out the Raiders.  While Ralph was not the only one of means in the AFL as Bud Adams and Lamar Hunt were considerably more wealthy Ralph was the only one inclined to prop up the AFL.  I don't think that it was even possible for Modell to do the same if necessary.  Also, Modell was in a different situation stadium wise with Cleveland Stadium being nothing more than a county fair grandstand that was dated even for 1970.  Contrast that with Rich Stadium opening in 1973 with a capacity of 80,000 fans.  Sure the original Rich Stadium was not a palace but it was leaps and bounds ahead of Cleveland Stadium.  While Modell made the most noise about a new stadium from around the late 1980's onward my understanding is that he was engaged in polite talk with local politicians considerably earlier than that.

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Ralph was a smart  business man which led to his team staying put.  We should hate him for it.

 

Modell was a bad business man which led to his team moving.  We should love him for it.

 

Did I get that right?

 

Drunk Bobby was an epic fan before he bought the team that had been saved by Ralph.  Before Ralph was even dead he was planning to help Bon Jersey move Ralph's team.  I suppose that means we should love him.

 

And that epically selfish gift of 900m.  That was a doozy.  What a jerk.  And all that research money that helped old time rival Nick B and ultimately Kevin Everett?  There is a special place in hell just for that I suppose.  

 

 

Ralph was a thrifty businessman.    Much better than Modell...........but not as good as many in the NFL.........just fortunate that the other owners had to drag him along and stuff his pockets because they were partners.

 

AS for his gift..........it's a trust.    That's as close to taking it with you as you can get.   He could have donated it all to cancer research...........or given it to his family where the government would have taken a huge chunk and some great grandchild would waste it all 20 years from now.    People with needs will have to come to Ralph's trust and then be sure to thank him for it for a very long time. 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

AS for his gift..........it's a trust.    That's as close to taking it with you as you can get.   He could have donated it all to cancer research...........or given it to his family where the government would have taken a huge chunk and some great grandchild would waste it all 20 years from now.    People with needs will have to come to Ralph's trust and then be sure to thank him for it for a very long time. 

 

This is moronic.

[4merper4mer]

28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ralph was a thrifty businessman.    Much better than Modell...........but not as good as many in the NFL.........just fortunate that the other owners had to drag him along and stuff his pockets because they were partners.

 

AS for his gift..........it's a trust.    That's as close to taking it with you as you can get.   He could have donated it all to cancer research...........or given it to his family where the government would have taken a huge chunk and some great grandchild would waste it all 20 years from now.    People with needs will have to come to Ralph's trust and then be sure to thank him for it for a very long time. 

 

Wow

[george c]

Those who were early fans of the Bills know although tasteless, tacky and insulting, Jerry tells the truth here...

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, RochesterRob said:

  This is assuming that this alternate owner would have kept the team in Buffalo especially if you went back 25 years.  Ralph may have been "business first" in a lot of respects but he had an affinity for Buffalo the way many people have for their first house even though the current house may be nicer, better built, and more energy efficient than that first home.

 

There are a lot of myths circulating among Bills fans concerning Ralph Wilson's affinity for the area as well as his role in keeping the Bills in Buffalo.  I've become increasingly skeptical about how much truth actually underlies those myths as the years go by.   One thing I do know is that Wilson repeatedly used the threat of moving the team to get very favorable lease terms for the stadium.  He also wasn't interested in selling the team, so there's no way to know if there were any individuals or groups twenty or forty years ago that would have purchased it and kept it here.  That there was no one who would have bought the team and kept it here is all based on assumptions not facts. 

 

BTW, after Wilson died and the team was sold, it has remained in Buffalo.  Maybe that had something to do with how Wilson had things set up or maybe it's just that the Pegulas have their own affinity for the Buffalo area ... or maybe it was just a good business decision because there was no better place to move it.

 

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You are 100% right, I know someone who sat at the table during those negotiations and believe me, the Bills had the State and County over a barrel and Littman treated the entire set of discussions as if he were negotiating for his retirement parachute (which he was).  And without revealing too much information, you are spot-on that the State was the one trying to ensure the Bills remained in Buffalo (and had a long-term stadium) during those discussions, not Ralph.  

 

Ralph played Bills fans for total saps and ran the team like a used car franchise.  The fact that some of you still go to militant lengths to defend his complicated (at best) legacy sort of proves the OP's point.

 

 

Very well said. 

 

BTW, saying that Wilson was a cheapskate owner is hardly "revisionist history".  Commentators and fans have been saying that for years.  I personally have been critical of how the Bills were run under Wilson for years.  The bottom line has ALWAYS been more important than winning for Wilson and his minions, many of whom were his family and friends rather than competent football professionals.  Many NFL owners pad their team payrolls with family and friends, but most don't put them in positions of real power as the Bills did with Littman.

 

The evidence that the Bills weren't interested in spending on coaches is pretty plain, too.  In the 1970s and 1980s, the Bills HCs were spectacularly awful with the exception of Lou Saban and Chuck Knox, both hired after dismal on field performances left tens of thousands of empty seats in Rich Stadium.  Except for Chuck Knox, none had any kind of NFL success after leaving the Bills, either.  Even Marv Levy didn't have impressive credentials when he was hired, and his hiring was considered "more of the same mediocrity".  It's also the opinion of many fans and analysts that the Bills might even have a Lombardi or two if they had had better coaching, especially against the Giants. 

 

In a previous post in this thread, I outlined the repeated problems the Bills had in signing their first round draft picks even when these players had only limited options.  Some of the old time sports reporters of the day like Larry Felser frequently criticized the Bills for drafting "players they could sign" rather than good players, which may be why so many top Bills draft picks sucked.  It wasn't until the Polian era that the Bills started going BPA in any kind of meaningful way.  Oh, yeah, and the parade of DBs and RBs drafting in the first round to replace DBs and RBs who left in FA or through trade in the last decade and a half of Wilson's ownership is simply more evidence that the Bills watched that bottom line more than their win-loss record. 

 

It's also historical fact is that during Wilson's 54 year tenure as owner, the Bills had only 19 winning seasons, and 10 of those came in the 14 years between 1986 and 2000 under Bill Polian and his protege, John Butler. Most of the Bills playoff appearances also occurred in this period.  Since Butler left, the Bills had exactly 1 winning season and 0 playoff appearances in the last 13 years of Wilson's ownership.  Since Pegula became owner, despite a poor choice of HC in Rex Ryan, the Bills have already had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance in 4 years.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is moronic.

 

Hardly.

 

Trusts are the way that people who's primary skills are greed and ego can be immortalized.

 

Remember.........this is a controversial owner who passed on millions in naming rights to have his own name on a public owned stadium while he was alive.   That would be REAL HARD to pull off in markets where the fanbase/municipality wasn't terrified that he'd move the team if they didn't bow at his feet and feed his massive ego.   

 

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

49 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Hardly.

 

Trusts are the way that people who's primary skills are greed and ego can be immortalized.

 

Remember.........this is a controversial owner who passed on millions in naming rights to have his own name on a public owned stadium while he was alive.   That would be REAL HARD to pull off in markets where the fanbase/municipality wasn't terrified that he'd move the team if they didn't bow at his feet and feed his massive ego.   

 

 

Well Bado I figure we will not come to a meeting of the minds here. And this is an interesting topic at least to me. But I don't want t spend a ton of time on it because I guess I would rather spend most of my spare time on here talking and worrying about which of the 5 quarterbacks we will or wont get, even though I have zero control over that and would probably make a mistake if I did.

 

So Ralph Wilson is dead and he certainly isn't bothered by whatever is said. No real point in sticking up for him looking at it that way.

 

I do wish the Buffalo News would be a good paper and not always take the easiest lazy way to get clicks. "Ralph Wilson was Cheap" get clicks. They have the best access of all but they squander it being like that. Oh well, again nothing I can do I just don't read it. They will be gone soon anyway I think because they aren't adapting.

 

But one question for you. For one thing it seems to me that if Ralph kept the money in his family, he would be selfish, and if he gave it all back to Buffalo, he did it because he is selfish.  You make it sound like everybody knows that ego driven sports owners do this all the time, so that your way of looking at it is right.

 

 

So I ask, can  you show me a single NFL football team owner who gave back all the money, plus I think a couple hundred million extra, to his hometown and to the home base of the team?  I don't know but i never heard of it.

Edited March 31, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[Boca BIlls]

Dear god people stop talking about all this other ****. The Cheap part of Ralphis all about his football decisions.

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is moronic.

 

You are having a lot of trouble following the conversation.  Perhaps turn off Spongebob, put your Big Boy Pants on, and read a bit more closely.

[Peter]

On 3/30/2018 at 11:57 AM, BuffaloRush said:

 

 

“Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East.  The Jets, Patriots, and Dolphins continue to make moves to get better while the Bills just tread water.  There are good people who were very interested in that job, like Dave Gettelman, Scott Studwell and Doug Whaley that never got a chance.  All those guys could have helped that team.  The best hope for Bills fans is that the owner decides to sell the team and then someone who cares about winning takes over and brings in qualified people.”

 

Ouch!  Ironically everything in this article pretty much came to fruition.  Again, Wilson is a complicated figure.  You love what he did from a humanistic standpoint - but no so much from a football standpoint.

 

It is a shame the Bills never hired Doug Whaley.  He could have really "helped the team."

Edited March 31, 2018 by Peter

[cba fan]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

There are a lot of myths circulating among Bills fans concerning Ralph Wilson's affinity for the area as well as his role in keeping the Bills in Buffalo.  I've become increasingly skeptical about how much truth actually underlies those myths as the years go by.   One thing I do know is that Wilson repeatedly used the threat of moving the team to get very favorable lease terms for the stadium.  He also wasn't interested in selling the team, so there's no way to know if there were any individuals or groups twenty or forty years ago that would have purchased it and kept it here.  That there was no one who would have bought the team and kept it here is all based on assumptions not facts. 

 

BTW, after Wilson died and the team was sold, it has remained in Buffalo.  Maybe that had something to do with how Wilson had things set up or maybe it's just that the Pegulas have their own affinity for the Buffalo area ... or maybe it was just a good business decision because there was no better place to move it.

 

 

Very well said. 

 

BTW, saying that Wilson was a cheapskate owner is hardly "revisionist history".  Commentators and fans have been saying that for years.  I personally have been critical of how the Bills were run under Wilson for years.  The bottom line has ALWAYS been more important than winning for Wilson and his minions, many of whom were his family and friends rather than competent football professionals.  Many NFL owners pad their team payrolls with family and friends, but most don't put them in positions of real power as the Bills did with Littman.

 

The evidence that the Bills weren't interested in spending on coaches is pretty plain, too.  In the 1970s and 1980s, the Bills HCs were spectacularly awful with the exception of Lou Saban and Chuck Knox, both hired after dismal on field performances left tens of thousands of empty seats in Rich Stadium.  Except for Chuck Knox, none had any kind of NFL success after leaving the Bills, either.  Even Marv Levy didn't have impressive credentials when he was hired, and his hiring was considered "more of the same mediocrity".  It's also the opinion of many fans and analysts that the Bills might even have a Lombardi or two if they had had better coaching, especially against the Giants. 

 

In a previous post in this thread, I outlined the repeated problems the Bills had in signing their first round draft picks even when these players had only limited options.  Some of the old time sports reporters of the day like Larry Felser frequently criticized the Bills for drafting "players they could sign" rather than good players, which may be why so many top Bills draft picks sucked.  It wasn't until the Polian era that the Bills started going BPA in any kind of meaningful way.  Oh, yeah, and the parade of DBs and RBs drafting in the first round to replace DBs and RBs who left in FA or through trade in the last decade and a half of Wilson's ownership is simply more evidence that the Bills watched that bottom line more than their win-loss record. 

 

It's also historical fact is that during Wilson's 54 year tenure as owner, the Bills had only 19 winning seasons, and 10 of those came in the 14 years between 1986 and 2000 under Bill Polian and his protege, John Butler. Most of the Bills playoff appearances also occurred in this period.  Since Butler left, the Bills had exactly 1 winning season and 0 playoff appearances in the last 13 years of Wilson's ownership.  Since Pegula became owner, despite a poor choice of HC in Rex Ryan, the Bills have already had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff appearance in 4 years.

 

 

Very well said SoTier.

 

FYI: for the record: my comment of "revisionist thinking" referred to how many on here think Ralph saved the Bills after his death by insisting on the inclusion of the $400 mill penalty in lease. That thinking is patently 100% not true. County and State insisted on that and Ralph and Bills wanted nothing to do with it. Look no further than the 28 mill loophole coming up in 2020 as more proof of Litteman and Ralph thinking.

[BadLandsMeanie]

16 minutes ago, cba fan said:

Very well said SoTier.

 

FYI: for the record: my comment of "revisionist thinking" referred to how many on here think Ralph saved the Bills after his death by insisting on the inclusion of the $400 mill penalty in lease. That thinking is patently 100% not true. County and State insisted on that and Ralph and Bills wanted nothing to do with it. Look no further than the 28 mill loophole coming up in 2020 as more proof of Litteman and Ralph thinking.

Here's the trouble, You don't cite any of your claims. 

 

Besides Mark Procrilantz who was plainly trying to take credit for himself AFTER the fact in an embarrassing way. After the terms of the lease were understood and reported, which was as I recall very shortly before the actual sale of the team, he stepped in to try to take credit. Before that we didn't hear from him.  But afterward we have him proclaiming that he is the hero and he going to write a book, about him and the lease. He seemed to have lost his mind if he thought everybody was going to run out and buy a book about a local politician taking credit for a lease.

 

This in contrast to a lawyer hired by the Bills telling us in advance that once we understood how Mr Wilson had structured that lease, that we would all be grateful to him.

 

Well , maybe not all of us.

 

And you keep avoiding the inescapable hole in your proclaimed retelling of the events, how did the county pressure him? He held all the cards.

 

Now I dont expect that you will change your opinion because you have it for your own reasons and very plainly are not relying on proof or facts.

 

I am saying you are full of it to anyone who might be thinking that you are doing anything but telling lies that you wont defend because you cant. You instead just step around available known information and common sense, and keep babbling away. So happy babble.

 

 

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

You are having a lot of trouble following the conversation.  Perhaps turn off Spongebob, put your Big Boy Pants on, and read a bit more closely.

I like Spongebob. 

 

And I am not wearing pants.

Edited March 31, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[Beast]

Someday, unfortunately probably when Sullivan is dead and gone, a journalist will

pen an article about what a douche Sullivan was.

[Nihilarian]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

All I know about you is you traditionally say one stupid thing after the next and are pretty much seen as a complete joke on this site.

 

Your post above is no exception.

 

When he bought the Bills Ralph was PLENTY wealthy compared to his peers in the AFL and the NFL..........in fact he had already been a part owner of the Detroit Lions and would have bought them had they been for sale.     Get your facts straight.   He wasn't Bon Jovi trying to get someone to buy the team for him he WAS NFL owner wealthy and went on to use his wealth to prop up both the Patriots and Raiders in the pre-merger AFL.

 

In short......he didn't have to leverage the team because he got in for peanuts.

 

RCW was mercurial, football stupid and EPICALLY selfish............and while those things caused a lot of suffering to everyday schmuck Bills fans and the people he hired to manage/coach his teams.........his increbile selfishness is what ultimately kept the team in Buffalo.

 

He desperately wanted to be remembered as something other than what he was............and once he reached a certain point he NEEDED Buffalo to be able to do that.

 

By contrast, a guy like Art Modell spent most of his time as an NFL owner trying to make all of the people around him like him............mostly by overpaying them or wrt Cleveland itself not really pushing the envelope with regard to a new stadium until it was far too late.     Eventually being too nice caught up to him...........he got in debt.........and had to hurt the people he needed the most, the fans of Cleveland.    It destroyed him and he died as a carpet bagger in Baltimore and a pariah in Cleveland.

 

Ralph was a selfish and dishonest/disingenuine prick of an owner............but the fact that he ran it like a business,  never revealing his hand about whether he would move the team.........created a perfect setup for his final act.   Yes, I am a huge Bills fan but I never spent ONE SECOND worrying about the team moving because I knew Ralph was far too self-centered to ruin his legacy by pulling a Modell and moving the team.

 

 

Ralph Wilson was notoriously cantankerous and frugal throughout his entire ownership of the Buffalo Bills. Make no mistake Wilson would have moved the team if he were put in such a position that he might be forced to sell all or part of the team. He would have moved it. 

 

In the late 1970's the team wasn't winning and fans weren't attending. The team was forced to have preseason games in other cities because Bills fans wouldn't attend those home preseason games in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson was getting desperate because he knew if he didn't sell more seats he would be forced to sell all or part of the team...or move it. 

 

Instead, he hired Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid head coaches in the league. Which was something he would have otherwise not done!

 

Wilson didn't do this because he wanted a winner, he did it because he was forced to do it. Knox was so good that he was able to build a winning team despite the moron in Bills GM Stew Barber. Knox did his own drafting and brought in Norm Pollom his player personnel director he had with the Rams. ( BTW, it was Pollom who recommended the Bills hire Bill Polian)

 

This same situation developed a few years later after Knox left for Seattle because Wilson refused to give him a raise. Which he should have done considering the transformation the man had on the city of Buffalo and the team.

 

In 1984-85 After back to back 2-14 seasons and a stadium almost empty and the fans that did attend wore bags on their heads. Bill Polian needed to talk Wilson into making QB Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the league and also talked him into stadium improvements. 

 

What Bills fans don't know is that while paying the very least amount of dollars he could on coaches and GM's.  Wilson collected fine art worth millions and had other expensive hobbies like racing horses. The man might have been wealthy but he still kept himself as team president and basically micromanaged every head coach by phone from Detroit. Kinda why most good NFL head coaches wouldn't think of taking the head coaching job in Buffalo.  

 

But yeah, in his later years he would have not even thought of moving the team and as long as the team made a healthy profit as there was no reason. Makes one think as to why the marketing guy was the GM for a time. 

[SoTier]

32 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Ralph Wilson was notoriously cantankerous and frugal throughout his entire ownership of the Buffalo Bills. Make no mistake Wilson would have moved the team if he were put in such a position that he might be forced to sell all or part of the team. He would have moved it. 

 

In the late 1970's the team wasn't winning and fans weren't attending. The team was forced to have preseason games in other cities because Bills fans wouldn't attend those home preseason games in Buffalo. Ralph Wilson was getting desperate because he knew if he didn't sell more seats he would be forced to sell all or part of the team...or move it. 

 

Instead, he hired Chuck Knox and made him one of the highest paid head coaches in the league. Which was something he would have otherwise not done!

 

Wilson didn't do this because he wanted a winner, he did it because he was forced to do it. Knox was so good that he was able to build a winning team despite the moron in Bills GM Stew Barber. Knox did his own drafting and brought in Norm Pollom his player personnel director he had with the Rams. ( BTW, it was Pollom who recommended the Bills hire Bill Polian)

 

This same situation developed a few years later after Knox left for Seattle because Wilson refused to give him a raise. Which he should have done considering the transformation the man had on the city of Buffalo and the team.

 

In 1984-85 After back to back 2-14 seasons and a stadium almost empty and the fans that did attend wore bags on their heads. Bill Polian needed to talk Wilson into making QB Jim Kelly the highest paid QB in the league and also talked him into stadium improvements. 

 

What Bills fans don't know is that while paying the very least amount of dollars he could on coaches and GM's.  Wilson collected fine art worth millions and had other expensive hobbies like racing horses. The man might have been wealthy but he still kept himself as team president and basically micromanaged every head coach by phone from Detroit. Kinda why most good NFL head coaches wouldn't think of taking the head coaching job in Buffalo.  

 

But yeah, in his later years he would have not even thought of moving the team and as long as the team made a healthy profit as there was no reason. Makes one think as to why the marketing guy was the GM for a time. 

 

This is how I remember it, too, and I've been a fan since about 1963.  IIRC, Wilson only rehired Lou Saban because after about 5 or 6 losing seasons, fans had abandoned the Bills.  Saban came in and took advantage of OJ Simpson's talent and built a playoff team.   That was a consistent pattern as long as NFL teams were dependent upon ticket sales -- the Bills sucked for several years until fans stopped attending games and then the Bills took action, bringing in better coaches/FO people to build a winning team which lasted until the winning HC/GM left because of dissatisfaction with Wilson, and the team would sink into suckitude again.  In the 2000s, the money from the TV deals made ticket sales much less important, so Wilson had no reason to do much.  I think that free agency and the salary cap also were easy scapegoats for the Bills' unwillingness to pay outstanding players they had drafted and developed, especially in Buffalo where so many fans have blue collar roots. 

 

I also think that the rise of Russ Brandon within the Bills organization was more evidence of Wilson putting profit before winning.  Before he came to the Bills, Brandon's claim to fame was the gutting of the Florida Marlins the year after they won the World Series, a move which resulted from Brandon dropping the team from having one of the highest salary costs to one of the lowest.  It also resulted in the Marlins going from World Champions to the worst team in the league and finishing an enormous number of games behind the pennant winner.  If you check Brandon's on-line biographies you won't find any mention of his time with the Marlins but you will find the outline of how he gutted the team in articles about the Marlins baseball team.

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Here's the trouble, You don't cite any of your claims. 

 

Besides Mark Procrilantz who was plainly trying to take credit for himself AFTER the fact in an embarrassing way. After the terms of the lease were understood and reported, which was as I recall very shortly before the actual sale of the team, he stepped in to try to take credit. Before that we didn't hear from him.  But afterward we have him proclaiming that he is the hero and he going to write a book, about him and the lease. He seemed to have lost his mind if he thought everybody was going to run out and buy a book about a local politician taking credit for a lease.

 

This in contrast to a lawyer hired by the Bills telling us in advance that once we understood how Mr Wilson had structured that lease, that we would all be grateful to him.

 

Well , maybe not all of us.

 

And you keep avoiding the inescapable hole in your proclaimed retelling of the events, how did the county pressure him? He held all the cards.

 

Now I dont expect that you will change your opinion because you have it for your own reasons and very plainly are not relying on proof or facts.

 

I am saying you are full of it to anyone who might be thinking that you are doing anything but telling lies that you wont defend because you cant. You instead just step around available known information and common sense, and keep babbling away. So happy babble.

 

 

I like Spongebob. 

 

And I am not wearing pants.

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/7/15/3160664/buffalo-bills-lease-agreement

http://buffalonews.com/2014/04/12/under-lease-court-could-bar-any-new-owner-from-moving-buffalo-bills/ 

Ralph likely did not resist in the end, which is obvious as they signed the lease, but much more likely due to Litteman was given a bone to save his golden parachute nest egg. The 28 mill loophole escape clause at 7 years.

 

Quote from Coach Tuesday: You are 100% right, I know someone who sat at the table during those negotiations and believe me, the Bills had the State and County over a barrel and Littman treated the entire set of discussions as if he were negotiating for his retirement parachute (which he was).  And without revealing too much information, you are spot-on that the State was the one trying to ensure the Bills remained in Buffalo (and had a long-term stadium) during those discussions, not Ralph.  end quote.

 

If you refuse to believe the truth so be it. Most of the rest of us are going with the facts. County and Gov of NY insisted on this clause.

Edited March 31, 2018 by cba fan

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Not going to lie, I think Ralph was a terrible owner.

[Matt_In_NH]

Ralph was a lot of things, the truth is he was cheap when it came to football when compared to a lot of teams. Some will say that means he was not committed to winning but the truth also is you don't need to spend the most money to win. I heard Marv Levy give advice to Frank Reich and he said something like "Its not a great QB that wins, its not a great defense that wins its not great talent that wins, IT'S TOTAL ORGANIZATION". Ralph was not a football die hard, he was a businessman and ran the Bills to make money first, winning was second. But he left the team to stay in Buffalo and we all need to be thankful towards him him for that.

I heard Polian tell a story once when he said they signed one of the greats from the early 90's team that was over the budget Ralph gave him. Ralph was on vacation in France or something but Polian did the contract anyway. When Ralph got back he was furious but nothing really happened other than him having a temper tantrum. So yeah he did not give the team a blank check but I am not sure cheap is the right word to describe him as an NFL owner.

Sullivan is not always wrong but I have heard him interview too and he is a total downer. I'm fine with being realistic but the guy is just a miserable human being, not sure why but he chooses negativity over positivism every time.

Edited March 31, 2018 by mattynh