BuffaloRush Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, #34fan said: Actually, 'death', by definition, makes you immune to pretty much everything... What it won't stop, is hacks with nothing better to do from taking shots at you.. I'm done taking shots at R.C.W. He came... He did his thing... He's gone.... Ralph probably did more good than all his detractors did if you put them together. Now, the spotlight belongs to Terry and Kim. To say that death makes you “immune to everything” is a childish mindset. There is a difference between personal and professional criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Do you even like the Bills? Because I haven't read anything positive from you in maybe....ever. Ralph bought the Bills for what? $40k? He was relatively wealthy but not NFL owner wealthy. He did have options such as selling shares or leveraging through debt but he chose otherwise. That is a business decision. It isn't "cheap". His decisions resulted in 900m to charity and his team staying put. Had he leveraged the team, who knows how things might have turned out? Would he have been able to sneak the lease past his lender said/partners before it even got to drunk Krafts desk? All I know about you is you traditionally say one stupid thing after the next and are pretty much seen as a complete joke on this site. Your post above is no exception. When he bought the Bills Ralph was PLENTY wealthy compared to his peers in the AFL and the NFL..........in fact he had already been a part owner of the Detroit Lions and would have bought them had they been for sale. Get your facts straight. He wasn't Bon Jovi trying to get someone to buy the team for him he WAS NFL owner wealthy and went on to use his wealth to prop up both the Patriots and Raiders in the pre-merger AFL. In short......he didn't have to leverage the team because he got in for peanuts. RCW was mercurial, football stupid and EPICALLY selfish............and while those things caused a lot of suffering to everyday schmuck Bills fans and the people he hired to manage/coach his teams.........his increbile selfishness is what ultimately kept the team in Buffalo. He desperately wanted to be remembered as something other than what he was............and once he reached a certain point he NEEDED Buffalo to be able to do that. By contrast, a guy like Art Modell spent most of his time as an NFL owner trying to make all of the people around him like him............mostly by overpaying them or wrt Cleveland itself not really pushing the envelope with regard to a new stadium until it was far too late. Eventually being too nice caught up to him...........he got in debt.........and had to hurt the people he needed the most, the fans of Cleveland. It destroyed him and he died as a carpet bagger in Baltimore and a pariah in Cleveland. Ralph was a selfish and dishonest/disingenuine prick of an owner............but the fact that he ran it like a business, never revealing his hand about whether he would move the team.........created a perfect setup for his final act. Yes, I am a huge Bills fan but I never spent ONE SECOND worrying about the team moving because I knew Ralph was far too self-centered to ruin his legacy by pulling a Modell and moving the team. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: To say that death makes you “immune to everything” is a childish mindset. There is a difference between personal and professional criticism. 1. It does. 2. Color me impressed by your "professional" dead-man criticizing... You are a star in your chosen field. Edited March 31, 2018 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: In other breaking news, water is wet, the Pope is catholic and bears do crap in the woods. Well now, there's some questions about the Pope and there being no hell. Disputed of course but no one anywhere on this Earth or anywhere else shall ever question if bears do in fact **** in the woods. Also I don't recall the Taurus ever breaking down which implies Ralph did maintain the vehicle. That incurred costs. I shouted how cheap Ralph was for many years but oh my God what a gift he left behind. There can be no debate on that ongoing legacy. Oh, and Sully's a tool. Used to be humorous but now just a tool. Edited March 31, 2018 by beerme1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Have you known anyone that old who wasn't a cheapskate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 13 hours ago, I'm Spartacus said: I think Ralph was pretty cheap. I think Ralph was good to Buffalo and the community & charities. I think Jerry Sullivan is an a-hole. Pretty well summarizes things here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 14 hours ago, PolishDave said: It's very classy insulting dead people who did great things for their community during their lifetimes. Totally agree. There are somethings you just don’t say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Things Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Sully can bite me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 In other news: Pope is still catholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 A full bladder and a grave. Nice. Real !@#$ing nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 19 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Scroll to the 35 minute mark http://buffalonews.com/2018/03/21/tim-graham-show-a-conversation-about-interviewing-o-j-simpson/ Again another cheap plug for the Tim Graham show. This show contains audio excerpts from his interview with OJ Simpson. One clip features OJ saying that Ralph wasn't interested in winning in Buffalo because it would mean he'd have to give players raises. He later claimed that once he made his money from the NFL, he changed his mind around the time that Polian was running things. Jerry Sullivan though says that Ralph Wilson was always a cheap owner. While he spent money on players during the salary cap era, he was notoriously frugal when it came to coaches and general managers. Sully even claimed that he called Ralph a "cheapskate" in one article and he refused to talk to him again. LOL. Sully said that Ralph didn't believe any coach or GM was smarter than his and so he didn't believe in paying them. Graham said that Ralph would pay people who "filled seats," like OJ and the Electric Company. This also would account for Ralph's alleged fondness for drafting running backs very high in the draft - to fill seats. This is what makes Ralph Wilson somewhat complicated. On one hand, you have to admire him bringing a team to Buffalo and keeping in the area. While there is some debate, at worst, Ralph made a possible move after his death, a little more challenging than what it could have been. There's also the charitable aspect that he's made to the community and the fact the he seemed like a genuine person. For that I admire him. But what Sully says is fairly spot on for the majority of Ralph's career - with the exception on Tom Donahoe in 2001. He gave him some pretty money and more importantly control of the organization. Things went horribly wrong both from a football and administration standpoint and after Donahoe's firing, it was back to cheap coaches and GM's that Ralph felt "safe" with. In my opinion, this perhaps was the biggest reason for the Bills 17 year drought. Ralph was reluctant to give the money and power to competent people to run football operations. In researching this topic, I came across a great article in Pro Football talk from 7 years ago which further supports what Sully was saying: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/ “The Buffalo hire is a joke and a slap in the face to all hard working people in the NFL,” the source said. “The Bills have not been to the playoffs in over 10 years and that run will continue for years to come. The owner has made three hires in a row that shows he only cares about mediocrity. “Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East. The Jets, Patriots, and Dolphins continue to make moves to get better while the Bills just tread water. There are good people who were very interested in that job, like Dave Gettelman, Scott Studwell and Doug Whaley that never got a chance. All those guys could have helped that team. The best hope for Bills fans is that the owner decides to sell the team and then someone who cares about winning takes over and brings in qualified people.” Ouch! Ironically everything in this article pretty much came to fruition. Again, Wilson is a complicated figure. You love what he did from a humanistic standpoint - but no so much from a football standpoint. That's some fine police work there Lou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, cba fan said: Man people. Stop with this revisionist theory thinking. Ralph and Bills had to be convinced and pushed into including any clause in last lease Ralph signed to make it moderately more difficult to move the team. One can only wonder how much better the original poison pill was presented by the county before Ralph reluctantly agreed to what he agreed to. Since Litteman and a few others involved owned 1% of the team that Ralph gave them that no one knew about , they had a conflict of interest and likely were thinking about the better return they would get if they had no poison pill. Ralph wanted to maximize the sale and that was his only motivation. If it was not he would have come up with the poison pill not the other way around. The pill would have also been bigger and would not have provided for the 28 mill buy out at 7 years coming up in 2020. I will find the links and post when I find them. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/7/15/3160664/buffalo-bills-lease-agreement I can not find the article where Erie Co commis Poloncarz commented it was County who insisted on the poison pill and Bills initially had wanted nothing to do with it. It never came up until county demanded it. You are 100% right, I know someone who sat at the table during those negotiations and believe me, the Bills had the State and County over a barrel and Littman treated the entire set of discussions as if he were negotiating for his retirement parachute (which he was). And without revealing too much information, you are spot-on that the State was the one trying to ensure the Bills remained in Buffalo (and had a long-term stadium) during those discussions, not Ralph. Ralph played Bills fans for total saps and ran the team like a used car franchise. The fact that some of you still go to militant lengths to defend his complicated (at best) legacy sort of proves the OP's point. 20 hours ago, PolishDave said: It's very classy insulting dead people who did great things for their community during their lifetimes. Get over yourself. Edited March 31, 2018 by Coach Tuesday 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd1 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 10 hours ago, PolishDave said: 1) You don't know **** about me dickbag - keep pretending you do though 2) If you think you are classy by insulting a dead man who did you a favor when he was alive - well then you really are a dickbag Keep doin you - cuz you are super cool Ha Ha Ha what a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 10 hours ago, PolishDave said: 1) You don't know **** about me dickbag - keep pretending you do though 2) If you think you are classy by insulting a dead man who did you a favor when he was alive - well then you really are a dickbag Keep doin you - cuz you are super cool He didn't do any of us any favors, you really don't know what you're talking about. You're just moralizing and cursing at everyone and your take is 100% false. Check yourself brah. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: You are 100% right, I know someone who sat at the table during those negotiations and believe me, the Bills had the State and County over a barrel and Littman treated the entire set of discussions as if he were negotiating for his retirement parachute (which he was). And without revealing too much information, you are spot-on that the State was the one trying to ensure the Bills remained in Buffalo (and had a long-term stadium) during those discussions, not Ralph. Ralph played Bills fans for total saps and ran the team like a used car franchise. The fact that some of you still go to militant lengths to defend his complicated (at best) legacy sort of proves the OP's point. Get over yourself. +100. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: All I know about you is you traditionally say one stupid thing after the next and are pretty much seen as a complete joke on this site. Your post above is no exception. When he bought the Bills Ralph was PLENTY wealthy compared to his peers in the AFL and the NFL..........in fact he had already been a part owner of the Detroit Lions and would have bought them had they been for sale. Get your facts straight. He wasn't Bon Jovi trying to get someone to buy the team for him he WAS NFL owner wealthy and went on to use his wealth to prop up both the Patriots and Raiders in the pre-merger AFL. In short......he didn't have to leverage the team because he got in for peanuts. RCW was mercurial, football stupid and EPICALLY selfish............and while those things caused a lot of suffering to everyday schmuck Bills fans and the people he hired to manage/coach his teams.........his increbile selfishness is what ultimately kept the team in Buffalo. He desperately wanted to be remembered as something other than what he was............and once he reached a certain point he NEEDED Buffalo to be able to do that. By contrast, a guy like Art Modell spent most of his time as an NFL owner trying to make all of the people around him like him............mostly by overpaying them or wrt Cleveland itself not really pushing the envelope with regard to a new stadium until it was far too late. Eventually being too nice caught up to him...........he got in debt.........and had to hurt the people he needed the most, the fans of Cleveland. It destroyed him and he died as a carpet bagger in Baltimore and a pariah in Cleveland. Ralph was a selfish and dishonest/disingenuine prick of an owner............but the fact that he ran it like a business, never revealing his hand about whether he would move the team.........created a perfect setup for his final act. Yes, I am a huge Bills fan but I never spent ONE SECOND worrying about the team moving because I knew Ralph was far too self-centered to ruin his legacy by pulling a Modell and moving the team. Ralph was a smart business man which led to his team staying put. We should hate him for it. Modell was a bad business man which led to his team moving. We should love him for it. Did I get that right? Drunk Bobby was an epic fan before he bought the team that had been saved by Ralph. Before Ralph was even dead he was planning to help Bon Jersey move Ralph's team. I suppose that means we should love him. And that epically selfish gift of 900m. That was a doozy. What a jerk. And all that research money that helped old time rival Nick B and ultimately Kevin Everett? There is a special place in hell just for that I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said: You are 100% right, I know someone who sat at the table during those negotiations and believe me, the Bills had the State and County over a barrel and Littman treated the entire set of discussions as if he were negotiating for his retirement parachute (which he was). And without revealing too much information, you are spot-on that the State was the one trying to ensure the Bills remained in Buffalo (and had a long-term stadium) during those discussions, not Ralph. Ralph played Bills fans for total saps and ran the team like a used car franchise. The fact that some of you still go to militant lengths to defend his complicated (at best) legacy sort of proves the OP's point. Get over yourself. You disprove your own argument. Not that everyone doesn't already know that an NFL team and Buffalo in particular, hold all the cards negotiating with a city. When a team can move nearly anywhere else besides Buffalo, and get a free extra half billion dollars, you don't have much leverage. Buffalo would never have another NFL team if that happened. You know that. And you even include it in your post. But you STILL want to insist that it was the politicians who forced Ralph Wilson into the terms of that lease. You don't make any sense. You are posting things that make no sense, for everyone to see, on a public message board, with your profile name on them. My advice would be to stick to what you know because in your effort to harsh on Ralph Wilson, and defend Jerry Sullivan, you are trashing your own reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thandGoal Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Oh oi do have a few words for Sullivan.. not to sure what words i can actually type in here but Sully looks like a jerk, talks like a jerk , writes like a jerk there fore he is a jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4_kidd_4 Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 You all realize this is a game and no one forces any single one of us to pay attention or pay money, right? People getting all salty and riled up like Ralph came to your house and took bread off your table. Cripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thandGoal Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 8 hours ago, Spiderweb said: Pretty well summarizes things here. i totally agree!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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