Jerry Sullivan: Ralph Wilson Was A Cheapskate

[Buffalo716]

When Ralph had a competitive team he went for it... when we weren't that good he was content to make some $$

 

the 70s were the worst. And we were new to the NFL... Mid 80s to the 90s Ralph was spending out the ying yang... we were called the million dollar bills

Edited March 30, 2018 by Buffalo716

[BuffaloBillyG]

Yes Ralph was cheap. Common knowledge. Jerry Sullivan is a trash "journalist" whose talents are less like Larry Felser and more like the average National Enquirer "journalist". Also common knowledge. 

 

However in this day and age sensationalism sells and Sullivan is often talked about. He's the Jerry Springer of Buffalo sports coverage.

[Lurker]

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So hires you didn't  like you criticize but good hires were just luck?  O.

 

No doubts whatsoever that Ralph won the lottery with Polian.   He clearly didn't know what he had when he gave the GM title to a wet behind the ears pro personnel guy standing in the hallway after Terry Bledsoe got canned.    I wouldn't be surprised if Ralph even knew Polian's name at the time.    

 

Ralph had little affinity for head coaches before Marv, who was more renaissance man/scholar/generational buddy than any HC before him.   Marv more than anything may have caused Ralph to change some of his ways during the Super Bowl years...   

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

He kept the team in Buffalo and poison pilled the lease so drunk Kraft wouldn't notice.  He operated from low liquidity compared to the Jones's andMcNairs of the world.  He gave $900M to charity upon his death.  Cheap. Right.

 

Sullivan is a low life.

 

You are very naive, son.

 

What he operated with was zero debt............not "low liquidity".

 

Jones  and Kraft were in serious debt after buying their franchises and thus motivated to take money risks aka spend money to make money.  Ralph did not believe in spending money to make money like his fellow owners..........he wanted the money to just keep flowing at him without effort.    It really became a problem after the team fell out of competitiveness when Butler left.   Then he started stacking cheez for his family exit strategy at the expense of competing.  

[smuvtalker]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said:

Scroll to the 35 minute mark

http://buffalonews.com/2018/03/21/tim-graham-show-a-conversation-about-interviewing-o-j-simpson/

 

Again another cheap plug for the Tim Graham show.  This show contains audio excerpts from his interview with OJ Simpson.  One clip features OJ saying that Ralph wasn't interested in winning in Buffalo because it would mean he'd have to give players raises.  He later claimed that once he made his money from the NFL, he changed his mind around the time that Polian was running things.

 

Jerry Sullivan though says that Ralph Wilson was always a cheap owner.  While he spent money on players during the salary cap era, he was notoriously frugal when it came to coaches and general managers.  Sully even claimed that he called Ralph a "cheapskate" in one article and he refused to talk to him again.  LOL.  Sully said that Ralph didn't believe any coach or GM was smarter than his and so he didn't believe in paying them.  Graham said that Ralph would pay people who "filled seats," like OJ and the Electric Company.  This also would account for Ralph's alleged fondness for drafting running backs very high in the draft - to fill seats.  

 

This is what makes Ralph Wilson somewhat complicated.   On one hand, you have to admire him bringing a team to Buffalo and keeping in the area.  While there is some debate, at worst, Ralph made a possible move after his death, a little more challenging than what it could have been.  There's also the charitable aspect that he's made to the community and the fact the he seemed like a genuine person.  For that I admire him.

 

But what Sully says is fairly spot on for the majority of Ralph's career - with the exception on Tom Donahoe in 2001.   He gave him some pretty money and more importantly control of the organization.  Things went horribly wrong both from a football and administration standpoint and after Donahoe's firing, it was back to cheap coaches and GM's that Ralph felt "safe" with.  In my opinion, this perhaps was the biggest reason for the Bills 17 year drought.  Ralph was reluctant to give the money and power to competent people to run football operations.

 

In researching this topic, I came across a great article in Pro Football talk from 7 years ago which further supports what Sully was saying:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/

 

“The Buffalo hire is a joke and a slap in the face to all hard working people in the NFL,” the source said.  “The Bills have not been to the playoffs in over 10 years and that run will continue for years to come.  The owner has made three hires in a row that shows he only cares about mediocrity.

 

“Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East.  The Jets, Patriots, and Dolphins continue to make moves to get better while the Bills just tread water.  There are good people who were very interested in that job, like Dave Gettelman, Scott Studwell and Doug Whaley that never got a chance.  All those guys could have helped that team.  The best hope for Bills fans is that the owner decides to sell the team and then someone who cares about winning takes over and brings in qualified people.”

 

Ouch!  Ironically everything in this article pretty much came to fruition.  Again, Wilson is a complicated figure.  You love what he did from a humanistic standpoint - but no so much from a football standpoint.

A very well-writted topic in regard to the article, and with supporting facts as well.  I appreciate you having the guts to post it as well, as many people consider it blasphemy to say anything negative about Mr. Wilson.  I think you posted as objectively an opinion as could be allowed, and while I did not have an educated opinion as to whether or not Wilson was in fact cheap, particularly when it came to front office, I do now.  Regardless of my opinion, I can still say I am more informed now than before I read this topic. Thank you!

 

[wagon127]

We always thought he was cheap. There were many times, I remember us begging Ralph Wilson to sell the team, for 1. As security for them to stay, and 2 As hoping somebody would bring a winning atmosphere back. I can't blame the guy for wanting to hang on to his NFL toy for the rest of his life. But he was cheap, and at times made us feel like we should just be grateful we even have a team. When it was all said and done, he set up his estate to make sure then new owner would have no intentions to move the team. I'm not sure who deserves a greater appreciation in ownership, Ralph Wilson, or the Knox Brothers.

[Clemfield2622]

1st time i read the headline I thought it said Ralph was a Cheesecake

[BuffaloRush]

17 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

A very well-writted topic in regard to the article, and with supporting facts as well.  I appreciate you having the guts to post it as well, as many people consider it blasphemy to say anything negative about Mr. Wilson.  I think you posted as objectively an opinion as could be allowed, and while I did not have an educated opinion as to whether or not Wilson was in fact cheap, particularly when it came to front office, I do now.  Regardless of my opinion, I can still say I am more informed now than before I read this topic. Thank you!

 

Thanks for the comment! I usually catch a lot of flack for my opinion so it’s nice to find someone that enjoyed the post.

 

Ralph is complicated.  On one hand you had to admire his generosity to the community,  but on the other hand he really wasn’t a very good owner from a football perspective and made lots of questionable decisions. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

They won't get a click from me 

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

The poison pill in the lease is the single greatest reason that Ralph should be revered forever in Buffalo. Without it, the Bills move and never return.

Long live the memory of Ralph Wilson!

 

2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

You might be right.  But the fact remains that Ralph had opportunities to move the Bills to more lucrative markets.  He kept the team in Buffalo and toward the end of his life, made a deal with Erie County and local politicians which would have made it hard to relocate.  I honestly believe that as the end was coming near, Ralph did want the team to stay in Buffalo.  

 

If you read what I wrote, I gave Ralph a lot of credit for his contributions to the community.  Yes, I did criticize the way that he ran the Bills toward the end of his ownership and when you look at the product that he put out post 2000, I believe that criticism is warranted

Man people. Stop with this revisionist theory thinking.

 

Ralph and Bills had to be convinced and pushed into including any clause in last lease Ralph signed to make it moderately more difficult to move the team.

One can only wonder how much better the original poison pill was presented by the county before Ralph reluctantly agreed to what he agreed to. Since Litteman and a few others involved owned 1% of the team that Ralph gave them that no one knew about , they had a conflict of interest and likely were thinking about the better return they would get if they had no poison pill.

 

Ralph wanted to maximize the sale and that was his only motivation. If it was not he would have come up with the poison pill not the other way around. The pill would have also been bigger and would not have provided for the 28 mill buy out at 7 years coming up in 2020.

 

I will find the links and post when I find them.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/7/15/3160664/buffalo-bills-lease-agreement

 

I can not find the article where Erie Co commis Poloncarz commented it was County who insisted on the poison pill and Bills initially had wanted nothing to do with it. It never came up until county demanded it.

Edited March 30, 2018 by cba fan

[Misterbluesky]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Can someone just take Sullivan out back and put him out of his misery?  Dudes like this are why some people think newspapers are a joke. 

He's the reason why I no longer get delivery.

[K-9]

Rauch, Saban, Knox, Levy all among the highest paid coaches of their eras. Mr. Wilson had no problem paying for demonstrated results. 

 

If anyone cares to research which owner had the most highest paid players at their respective positions over the years, they may be surprised. We've also had a couple of the highest paid players, period, as well. Including OJ, ironically. 

 

Nobody is claiming Mr. Wilson wasn't tight with the purse strings or that he didn't insist on operating within a prescribed budget year to year, but he was hardly the miser some have claimed over the years, either. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yeah, we know

 

 

[BuffaloRush]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Rauch, Saban, Knox, Levy all among the highest paid coaches of their eras. Mr. Wilson had no problem paying for demonstrated results. 

 

If anyone cares to research which owner had the most highest paid players at their respective positions over the years, they may be surprised. We've also had a couple of the highest paid players, period, as well. Including OJ, ironically. 

 

Nobody is claiming Mr. Wilson wasn't tight with the purse strings or that he didn't insist on operating within a prescribed budget year to year, but he was hardly the miser some have claimed over the years, either. 

 

Um no...when Marv was hired in 1986, he was not one of the highest paid coaches.  The criticism isn’t that he didn’t pay to retain coaches, it’s that he never went out  and spent on a new head coach or GM (outside of TD).  The other examples you reference happened over 40 years ago.  Over the past two decades especially Ralph was El Cheapo when it came to coaches and GM’s

[cba fan]

17 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Rauch, Saban, Knox, Levy all among the highest paid coaches of their eras. Mr. Wilson had no problem paying for demonstrated results. 

 

If anyone cares to research which owner had the most highest paid players at their respective positions over the years, they may be surprised. We've also had a couple of the highest paid players, period, as well. Including OJ, ironically. 

 

Nobody is claiming Mr. Wilson wasn't tight with the purse strings or that he didn't insist on operating within a prescribed budget year to year, but he was hardly the miser some have claimed over the years, either. 

He killed any chance of providing a winning team for over a decade with his "cash to crap policy"

[K-9]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRush said:

 

Um no...when Marv was hired in 1986, he was not one of the highest paid coaches.  The criticism isn’t that he didn’t pay to retain coaches, it’s that he never went out  and spent on a new head coach or GM (outside of TD).  The other examples you reference happened over 40 years ago.  Over the past two decades especially Ralph was El Cheapo when it came to coaches and GM’s

That was when he was newly hired. He was the 2nd highest paid coach in the league when he signed his second deal. "Demonstrated results." 

Just now, cba fan said:

He killed any chance of providing a winning team for over a decade with his "cash to crap policy"

Would you say that the Steeler's cash to cap accounting methodology killed any chance of them being winners? How about Green Bay and Kansas City? 

[PromoTheRobot]

Is obvious Buffalo team owners missed a great opportunity by not putting Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason in charge. They are the smartest 2 people in WNY. 

[BuffaloRush]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

That was when he was newly hired. He was the 2nd highest paid coach in the league when he signed his second deal. "Demonstrated results." 

 

LOL “demonstrated results?” Thats a joke.  So basically the strategy was to hire all your decision makers on the cheap and if they are good....oh then you spend the money?  Ironic how he never wanted to hire a coach that had “demonstrated experience” from another team.  

 

come on....does this list of hires sound like Ralph spares no expense?  All of them (besides Marrone) were among the lowest paid coaches in the league

 

GM - Marv Levy, Russ Brandon Buddy Nix

 

Coach - Gregggg Williams, Mike Mularkey, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone

[dlonce]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

Scroll to the 35 minute mark

http://buffalonews.com/2018/03/21/tim-graham-show-a-conversation-about-interviewing-o-j-simpson/

 

Again another cheap plug for the Tim Graham show.  This show contains audio excerpts from his interview with OJ Simpson.  One clip features OJ saying that Ralph wasn't interested in winning in Buffalo because it would mean he'd have to give players raises.  He later claimed that once he made his money from the NFL, he changed his mind around the time that Polian was running things.

 

Jerry Sullivan though says that Ralph Wilson was always a cheap owner.  While he spent money on players during the salary cap era, he was notoriously frugal when it came to coaches and general managers.  Sully even claimed that he called Ralph a "cheapskate" in one article and he refused to talk to him again.  LOL.  Sully said that Ralph didn't believe any coach or GM was smarter than his and so he didn't believe in paying them.  Graham said that Ralph would pay people who "filled seats," like OJ and the Electric Company.  This also would account for Ralph's alleged fondness for drafting running backs very high in the draft - to fill seats.  

 

This is what makes Ralph Wilson somewhat complicated.   On one hand, you have to admire him bringing a team to Buffalo and keeping in the area.  While there is some debate, at worst, Ralph made a possible move after his death, a little more challenging than what it could have been.  There's also the charitable aspect that he's made to the community and the fact the he seemed like a genuine person.  For that I admire him.

 

But what Sully says is fairly spot on for the majority of Ralph's career - with the exception on Tom Donahoe in 2001.   He gave him some pretty money and more importantly control of the organization.  Things went horribly wrong both from a football and administration standpoint and after Donahoe's firing, it was back to cheap coaches and GM's that Ralph felt "safe" with.  In my opinion, this perhaps was the biggest reason for the Bills 17 year drought.  Ralph was reluctant to give the money and power to competent people to run football operations.

 

In researching this topic, I came across a great article in Pro Football talk from 7 years ago which further supports what Sully was saying:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/01/bills-decision-to-hire-nix-draws-criticism/

 

“The Buffalo hire is a joke and a slap in the face to all hard working people in the NFL,” the source said.  “The Bills have not been to the playoffs in over 10 years and that run will continue for years to come.  The owner has made three hires in a row that shows he only cares about mediocrity.

 

“Bills fans can rest assured that, a year from now, two years from now, and three and four years from now, the team will still be in last place in the AFC East.  The Jets, Patriots, and Dolphins continue to make moves to get better while the Bills just tread water.  There are good people who were very interested in that job, like Dave Gettelman, Scott Studwell and Doug Whaley that never got a chance.  All those guys could have helped that team.  The best hope for Bills fans is that the owner decides to sell the team and then someone who cares about winning takes over and brings in qualified people.”

 

Ouch!  Ironically everything in this article pretty much came to fruition.  Again, Wilson is a complicated figure.  You love what he did from a humanistic standpoint - but no so much from a football standpoint.

 

Ralph wasn’t complicated, he was cheap when it came to management.

 

I have actually heard him with my own two ears say “I can hire a monkey to do his job, you want to be GM kid?” Looking back he pretty much called me a monkey. 

My boss and I were meeting with Stew Barber about a charitable event. He walked in and just blurted this out. It was odd but he obviously was pissed off at Barber about something. Barbers face turned beet red.

 

If you look at the history of all the bad management hires you can see how true this claim is. The worst, in my opinion, was Harvey Johnson. Most of you were not even born for that useless GM.

That was why the Bills were rarely decent. He did get lucky a couple times.

 

He did hire Chuck Knox, and Chuck brought excitement,while hitting on his drafts. Ralph could never handle the accolades his managers received,and low balled them at contract time, (or when they were deserving of a raise)either forcing them out or terminating them.

 

He hit on Polian luckily. As a first time GM Polian was a cheap hire, no one really knew much about him outside of footballs inner circle. Polian became successful, received accolades, and Ralph let him go with the excuse Polian couldn’t get along with his daughter Linda.That was a true statement but Bill never got along with Ralph’s daughter from the beginning.  Actually, Polian didn’t get along with a lot of people. Ralph could never handle someone else’s success on his management team, always believing he was the guy who deserved the credit. It also fit his mindset,which was that anyone could be a GM.

 

That is the main reason why the Bills were always mediocre. Thank god we have owners that check their egos at the door and are not afraid to hire good people.

Now we need a QB!

Edited March 30, 2018 by dlonce

[BuffaloRush]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Is obvious Buffalo team owners missed a great opportunity by not putting Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason in charge. They are the smartest 2 people in WNY. 

 

They’d probably spend more money on people to help them make important decisions than Ralph did