BuffaloSol Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 The thread was archived so I couldn't reply, but I thought this was super interesting the takes on Young back in 2006 are similar on both sides of the arguement to Lamar Jackson even today. Vince Young has been referenced as Lamar Jacksons floor, so I thought this old thread was fairly relevant after we found out Lamar scored a 13 today. Vince apparently scored a 6 then a 15 or 16 on the retake. I don't claim to be a scout, but that 13 did worry me a bit, just as I was warming up to him at 22. Why does 13 worry me a bit? Because I've taken it like I'm sure some of you have, and it does measure intelligence and the ability to process information quickly through mostly just problem solving, some simple math, and some English language comprehension that a 3rd year college student should have little trouble with. The wonderlich is not the end all for a player but it is something. Obviously Lamar and Vince are different players. Lamar arguably had the better career and did have a better career statically. Time will tell with Lamar but, it does make sense to at least put a little weight into the similarities.
LeGOATski Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 What if Lamar retakes it and gets a 22? I do think a low score is more telling than a high score. You need to be at a certain level to succeed. After that, it doesn't make too much difference. That level seems to be mid-20s or thereabouts, if I recall correctly.
fansince88 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 The question nobody will ask.....What was your score @BuffaloSol?
BuffaloSol Posted March 30, 2018 Author Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: What if Lamar retakes it and gets a 22? I do think a low score is more telling than a high score. You need to be at a certain level to succeed. After that, it doesn't make too much difference. That level seems to be mid-20s or thereabouts, if I recall correctly. If he gets a 22 I would be much more interested at 22 in the draft maybe even the 12-22 range if we don't trade up and the my top 3 are gone Darnold, Rosen, Baker. I agree with what you said low scores are more telling, so that's why I'm passing on him as a franchise guy in today's nfl. He still could be a franchise guy I just hope the Bills pass if that score holds up. Does anyone know if he took it today? 14 minutes ago, fansince88 said: The question nobody will ask.....What was your score @BuffaloSol? I took it awhile back and got a 37, Im pretty sure i didn't finish it all in the 12 minutes either. The speed at which you have answer I think is the more difficult part. I think I spent the most time unscrambling a word. Edited March 30, 2018 by BuffaloSol
H2o Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Jackson is faster and more agile than Vince was, but that is who he reminds me of as a QB. He's also showing through this whole process that he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, and no I'm not basing this assessment off of his Wonderlic score. I have never been an LJ advocate in the first place and eveything that keeps coming out just reinforces that even more.
Virgil Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Vince also had that historic bowl game in his favor. Probably one of the best single performances in a college game I can remember seeing. 3
Wo-Bah Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Please, again - do not draft Lamar Jackson. I want no part of him on the Bills. Everything I see or read about him, turns me off. It isn't just one thing, but these things keep adding up and I would hope that Beane & Co. are paying attention (which I think they are - I have no inside info, though). I would have been happier with TT.
freddyjj Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Let's temper this reaction as two HOFers - Jim Kelly and Marino scored 15 on same test. And Bradshaw was a 16. Not an easy test. 35/50 puts you in 98 percentile. Twenty is an average score
buffalotellem Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Bolt/Wonderlic-scores-revealed-for-top-quarterback-prospects-in-2018-NFL-Draft-116830596 I am sure it holds some weight, but there have been good QBs with low scores (Jim Kelly), and i am bad QBs with high scores. NFL talent evaluators place varying levels of stock in Wonderlic results. There have been plenty of examples of players who have scored poorly on this test and gone on to enjoy very successful NFL careers, such as Dan Marino (16), Jim Kelly (15), Terry Bradshaw (15), Randall Cunningham (15) and Donovan McNabb (14).
prissythecat Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, freddyjj said: Let's temper this reaction as two HOFers - Jim Kelly and Marino scored 15 on same test. And Bradshaw was a 16. Not an easy test. 35/50 puts you in 98 percentile. Twenty is an average score Lots of people keep citing the Jim Kelly and Dan Marino scores. But they played decades ago. Different game. Any recent QBs with below average (<20) scores who are franchise / elite?
thebandit27 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 5 hours ago, BuffaloSol said: The thread was archived so I couldn't reply, but I thought this was super interesting the takes on Young back in 2006 are similar on both sides of the arguement to Lamar Jackson even today. Vince Young has been referenced as Lamar Jacksons floor, so I thought this old thread was fairly relevant after we found out Lamar scored a 13 today. Vince apparently scored a 6 then a 15 or 16 on the retake. I don't claim to be a scout, but that 13 did worry me a bit, just as I was warming up to him at 22. Why does 13 worry me a bit? Because I've taken it like I'm sure some of you have, and it does measure intelligence and the ability to process information quickly through mostly just problem solving, some simple math, and some English language comprehension that a 3rd year college student should have little trouble with. The wonderlich is not the end all for a player but it is something. Obviously Lamar and Vince are different players. Lamar arguably had the better career and did have a better career statically. Time will tell with Lamar but, it does make sense to at least put a little weight into the similarities. How do you search the archives? Every time I try a search it comes back with zero results, even though I know for a fact that the search term has occurred many times
Mark80 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) I see Cunningham, McNabb, Taylor, Jackson, Young, McNair, and even Vick's (20) and Newton's (21) score as being mentioned as low. Serious question, has there ever been a black QB that has done well on this test? Perhaps there is an inherent bias in it? Because I would gladly take Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, McNair, and Newton as my franchise QB. Edited March 30, 2018 by Mark80
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I see Cunningham, McNabb, Taylor, Jackson, Young, McNair, and even Vick's (20) and Newton's (21) score as being mentioned as low. Serious question, has there ever been a black QB that has done well on this test? Perhaps there is an inherent bias in it? Because I would gladly take Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, McNair, and Newton as my franchise QB. Like Shaq said in the Blue Chips, "those tests are all culturally biased coach"
freddyjj Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I see Cunningham, McNabb, Taylor, Jackson, Young, and even Vick's (20) and Newton's (21) score as being mentioned as low. Serious question, has there ever been a black QB that has done well on this test? Perhaps there is an inherent bias in it? Because I would gladly take Cunningham, McNabb, Vick, and Newton as my franchise QB. 20 is the average for this test for all job applicants, regardless of race, for the sample period. So a score of 20-21 is not low, it is in fact the average score and reflects a normal IQ.
Mat68 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 A standardized doesn't measure If Jackson can recognize a coverage. Imo of all the score Jacksons is the only real one. He didnt go to a combine pre draft work out facility to improve his draft stock. He is who he is. Only question I wonder is if he is too near sighted to grasp the larger picture.
Gugny Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Since 2000, no QB who scored under 16 has become a successful starter. Since 2000, some QBs who scored 16 or above have gone on to become successful starters. Sixteen is the cutoff. A score of 16 or higher means that a QB does HAVE A CHANCE at being successful in the NFL. A score of 15 or below means that a QB does HAS NO CHANCE at being successful in the NFL. A high score does not mean someone WILL be successful - see: Ryan Fitzpatrick. A low score (below 16) DOES mean that someone WILL NOT be successful - see: every QB who scored 15 or below since 2000. Sixteen is the cutoff.
billsfan89 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Jackson just turned 21, he is a young guy who probably was more focused on football than on academics (he also did not go to a very good academic high school) but as a football player and as an athlete this guy has loads of ability. But Jackson needs to be in the right environment to develop as a person and as a football player. Hypothetically if the top 4 QB's are taken in the top 5 picks (I would make a play for any QB besides Allen) and Jackson is there at 12 I take him. I bench him for 2 seasons behind AJ and I use picks 22, 53, 56, 65, and 96 to build up the rest of the roster around AJ. Jackson has Vick type athleticism but he honestly needs to develop his fundamentals and his ability to know an NFL playbook. AJ played for a Sabin in college and he played for a respected coach in Marvin Lewis for 4 seasons (say what you will about Marvin Lewis but he has led 7 teams to the playoffs including a stretch of making it to the playoffs 6 out of 7 years.) I think AJ can manage this team for 2018 and 2019 into the playoffs while Jackson learns the offensive system and works on his fundamentals. A low Wonderlic is a concern but I also have to look at this kid as a man and think about what type of environment he grew up in and what type of guidance he needs to be a successful pro. I think that the Bills could offer him that type of guidance and place him in a good system.
Mark80 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, Gugny said: Since 2000, no QB who scored under 16 has become a successful starter. Since 2000, some QBs who scored 16 or above have gone on to become successful starters. Sixteen is the cutoff. A score of 16 or higher means that a QB does HAVE A CHANCE at being successful in the NFL. A score of 15 or below means that a QB does HAS NO CHANCE at being successful in the NFL. A high score does not mean someone WILL be successful - see: Ryan Fitzpatrick. A low score (below 16) DOES mean that someone WILL NOT be successful - see: every QB who scored 15 or below since 2000. Sixteen is the cutoff. No, 2000 is the cutoff. Because McNair got a 15 in 95 and McNabb got a 14 in 99. Two Hall of Famers.
prissythecat Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mark80 said: No, 2000 is the cutoff. Because McNair got a 15 in 95 and McNabb got a 14 in 99. Two Hall of Famers. Mcnair and McNabb are in the Hall of Fame? That seems like news to me.
Gugny Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mark80 said: No, 2000 is the cutoff. Because McNair got a 15 in 95 and McNabb got a 14 in 99. Two Hall of Famers. 2000 is the year cutoff. Sixteen is the score cutoff.
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