boyst Posted March 29, 2018 Posted March 29, 2018 Same boat. Every QB has a bit of a knock and the price to get in the running is a lot. But we do have the capital. I love how folks who have been here a while are calling this a lamp.
Thurman#1 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: And what if I do? Your going to act like a ***"""". I might not be so polite in the future. I think with a different coach we definitely make the playoffs. I doubt the Superbowl though but we will never know. What if you do again reply to a post of mine without actually having anything to say about that post? You'll be being a jerk again. Plus you'll get the fabulously valuable extra bonus of another fun-filled conversation with me!!!! If that sounds like fun, you should do this again. And sure, we'll never know for sure if they'd have won the Super Bowl . Same with the Browns last year. Maybe with a better coach they win the Super Bowl. You never know. Edited March 30, 2018 by Thurman#1 1
formerlyofCtown Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: What if you do again reply to a post of mine without actually having anything to say about that post? You'll be being a jerk again. Plus you'll get the fabulously valuable extra bonus of another fun-filled conversation with me!!!! If that sounds like fun, you should do this again. And sure, we'll never know for sure if they'd have won the Super Bowl . Same with the Browns last year. Maybe with a better coach they win the Super Bowl. You never know. Fortunately I think we have a better coach even though our roster isn't as good I think the players do have better character. No whiners just football players. 1
SouthNYfan Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 19 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: And what if I do? Your going to act like a ***"""". I might not be so polite in the future. I think with a different coach we definitely make the playoffs. I doubt the Superbowl though but we will never know. We know. We weren't beating the Steelers and the Patriots just to get to the Super Bowl. Wasn't happening. Sorry. 8 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: Fortunately I think we have a better coach even though our roster isn't as good I think the players do have better character. No whiners just football players. This I do agree with though. Better coach now, at least defensively (ironically) and preparedness. His offensive mind isn't great, so hopefully daboll transitions well to the NFL. I honestly don't have very high hopes for this season because of the new QB (which I think will be an improvement in the long run, but needs a few games or a whole year to get), lack of WRs/te talent currently (might improve with the draft), and new OC who is coming up from college. A lot of moving parts on the offense, many of which (mccarron/Rookie QB, and daboll) are getting their first taste of full NFL responsibility. I think there will be growing pains, but I would like the pegs to give them 2-3 more years to BUILD the team, and accept that this upcoming season, realistically, should be a regression from last. 1
Matt_In_NH Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Having a "bunch of guys" wont win you games, a franchise QB will. Also, They wont have to give that list of picks away
BuffaloBaumer Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 10:58 PM, Pete said: Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying. The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB). Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include: Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice, Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc. We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks. Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up. Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props. Peace out Yay, prepping for an I told you so just in case. Thank God you are on record!
Captain Hindsight Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/28/2018 at 10:58 PM, Pete said: Let the record state on 3/28/18- I am extremely against trading up into top 6 for QB- and massively overpaying. The opportunity cost of squandering picks 12, 22, 53, 56, 65, 96 and a 2019 1st(which will be a high draft pick if we sacrifice drafts for a rookie QB). Impact players that the Bills could miss out on(and whom would instantly upgrade Bills starters) include: Roquan Smith, Derwin James, Vita Vea, Tremaine Edmunds, Isiah Wynn, Will Hernandez, Billy Price, Frank Ragnow, Denzel Ward, Lamar Jackson, Ronald Jones, Guice, Vander Esch, James Washington, Cortland Sutton, Mike Hughes, Nick Chubb, Marcus Davenport, Mata’afa, Rashan Evans, Taven Bryan, Harrison Phillips, Josh Jackson, Christian Kirk, Hayden Hurst, Payne, Equanemius, Baker, Sam Hubbard, Ballage, etc. We could have 7 of the above and all our draft picks. Or we can risk it all on a QB ad give all that up. Please revisit and either give me **** or give me props. Peace out What is the price of not having a franchise QB?
Dr. Who Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 I'll go on record as disagreeing with OP. Does anybody care?
Putin Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 8:58 AM, RollBillsRoll said: While I agree that QB is the most important position on the field at any level of football, I don't agree that great QB's are a prerequisite for success. (At 'Bama, we don't even call 'em quarterbacks...they are called game managers ...and boy do we sure win a lot with them) Some of the more memorable "mediocre" QB's that have CB Champion under their name: Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Joe Flacco, Jim Mcmahon, etc) You can win the superbowl with great defense and supporting cast. Heck, Peyton Manning struggled to throw the ball 20 yards a couple years ago in the super bowl, but he was crafty and had a great defense. When you look at that list along with the 1st round qb busts such as : Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinert, , joey harrington, tim couch, byron leftwich, david carr, Cade mckown, jamarcus russel, Johnny manziel, etc. its not hard to see why some would be hesitant to support trading a bunch of quality picks for a QB who very few agree is a once in a generation player such as andrew luck. It seems to me the argument is valid from either view point. If you believe the best way to build a championship team is to go all in on a franchise qb, go get him (although it hasn't exactly worked out for INDY, even when Luck was healthy). If you believe you can win with great defense and average QB play, keep those picks. Not hard to guess which one I believe in. Defense and a dominating ground game. Drew Brees has been setting passing records for the last several years with a middling team. Last year they committed to the run, Brees took a backseat somewhat, and the team was much improved, IMO. Must be nice when a QB takes a backseat and still throws for 4400 yards 28TD’s- 8INT
Deadstroke Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 On 3/29/2018 at 7:38 AM, Mickey said: All the "upgrades" in the world won't win a championship or even a perennial contender without a good QB. The NFL isn't for feint hearted, penny pinching small timers. Go big or go home. Better to take a shot and miss then to never have the guts to go for it. But, if 6-10-ish seasons float your boat, then by all means, hang on to that 3rd round pick like it is the secret to immortality. The SB was just won this year with an "ordinary" QB.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Until you get a qb, it really doesn’t matter how good your team is. IMO, the 2014 Bills had SB talent but they had a kitty cat at qb. The Seahawks weren’t made with a ton of high draft picks. if you get a franchise qb, no prize is too high. And while it hurts if you miss, you just need to try again in a couple of years. Otherwise, you’re just on a hamster wheel. 1
buffalobloodfloridahome Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 We should probably just toil in mediocrity with this team for eternity due to the fact that it costs way too much to take a chance on what could be a franchise Qb. I don't understand this reasoning or the we have way too many holes to trade up. I think Beane has done a good if not great job filling as many holes as possible in free agency so far. Trade up and take a chance on what could be a game changing QB I personally am sick of getting leftovers and has been and never was type QBs. Trade up because that's why we loaded up on draft picks to do and get your guy no matter the cost that is the biggest and has been the biggest glaring hole on this team for a long time now.
slaphappy Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said: We should probably just toil in mediocrity with this team for eternity due to the fact that it costs way too much to take a chance on what could be a franchise Qb. I don't understand this reasoning or the we have way too many holes to trade up. I think Beane has done a good if not great job filling as many holes as possible in free agency so far. Trade up and take a chance on what could be a game changing QB I personally am sick of getting leftovers and has been and never was type QBs. Trade up because that's why we loaded up on draft picks to do and get your guy no matter the cost that is the biggest and has been the biggest glaring hole on this team for a long time now. I'm guessing the reasoning is because you could give up the farm and end up with a guy that turns into a leftover never has been never will be flop. Even knowing the chances of that go down by moving up it is still possible. Probably a risk aversion thing. Stocks or money market? Adding to that.. I'm betting most would be ok if we could pull off a swap to get in front of the Dolphins if we could do it with just picks 12 and 22. Edited March 30, 2018 by slaphappy
BADOLBILZ Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) Pete's been pushing this notion for a while..........not sure why another thread was needed but ya' know, LAMP'ers gonna' LAMP. 1) You always take the QB if you can get him. Drew Brees has had a career 20X as impactful to his franchise than the player the Chargers picked before him LaDanian Tomlinson........who was an absolute SUPERSTAR HOF RB. LT stopped being a star in 2007 and Brees is still going strong. QB is a long term investment at the one position that really matters wrt long term competitiveness. Star QB's get stadiums built and create the kind of vast, broad fanbases that create franchise stability. Brees, Brady, Eli, Big Ben, Rivers.........these guys have been around a long time and may not retire for 2-4 more years, respectively. It's really not hard to see why you gotta' get a QB if you can. 2) You're chances of hitting on all those picks are beyond miniscule........just look at the Bills track record in round 2........most of those guys that failed were actually the same or better prospects at the time. This is NOT great draft............ESPECIALLY for the money positions like pass rusher/LT/WR or even CB. What's good about this draft are the QB's at the top. Otherwise it's decidedly low quality in terms of players who directly impact the passing game..........which is the focus of the league!! 3) Free agency doesn't allow you to stack chips for long. This isn't Jimmy Johnson circa 1990 where you had first contracts that ran 6 years and could therefore stack and develop. The first contracts today are essentially 4 year deals now. Sammy Watkins was gone after only 3 years because they had to decide on his 5th year option after year 3. Picks #12 and #22 are going to command a combined $20M+ cap number in year 5! Now figure in that with a BPA approach you are probably looking at drafting guys at low dollar positions like LB or a run stuffing DT with those picks. Bottom line......if you don't have a QB you are basically at square one in terms of long term competitiveness regardless of whether you have stars at other positions. The smart play is to try to fill those $15M per year "money positions" early in the draft............then fill in with proven pros at the non-money positions in FA. Doing it the other way around is how you end up being a farm system for the rest of the league, developing NT's and guards and LB's and safeties for good teams to buy on the open market in 4-5 years. Edited March 30, 2018 by BADOLBILZ 5
slaphappy Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Pete's been pushing this notion for a while..........not sure why another thread was needed but ya' know, LAMP'ers gonna' LAMP. 1) You always take the QB if you can get him. Drew Brees has had a career 20X as impactful to his franchise than the player the Chargers picked before him LaDanian Tomlinson........who was an absolute SUPERSTAR HOF RB. LT stopped being a star in 2007 and Brees is still going strong. QB is a long term investment at the one position that really matters wrt long term competitiveness. Star QB's get stadiums built and create the kind of vast, broad fanbases that create franchise stability. Brees, Brady, Eli, Big Ben, Rivers.........these guys have been around a long time and may not retire for 2-4 more years, respectively. It's really not hard to see why you gotta' get a QB if you can. 2) You're chances of hitting on all those picks are beyond miniscule........just look at the Bills track record in round 2........most of those guys that failed were actually the same or better prospects at the time. This is NOT great draft............ESPECIALLY for the money positions like pass rusher/LT/WR or even CB. What's good about this draft are the QB's at the top. Otherwise it's decidedly low quality in terms of players who directly impact the passing game..........which is the focus of the league!! 2) Free agency doesn't allow you to stack chips for long. This isn't Jimmy Johnson circa 1990 where you had first contracts that ran 6 years and could therefore stack and develop. The first contracts today are essentially 4 year deals now. Sammy Watkins was gone after only 3 years because they had to decide on his 5th year option after year 3. Picks #12 and #22 are going to command a combined $20M+ cap number in year 5! Now figure in that with a BPA approach you are probably looking at drafting guys at low dollar positions like LB or a run stuffing DT with those picks. It's Bottom line......if you don't have a QB you are basically at square one in terms of long term competitiveness regardless of whether you have stars at other positions. The smart play is to try to fill those $15M per year "money positions" early in the draft............then fill in with proven pros at the non-money positions in FA. Doing it the other way around is how you end up being a farm system for the rest of the league, developing NT's and guards and LB's and safeties for good teams to buy on the open market in 4-5 years. Best detailing I have seen yet for swinging for the fences.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Let the record show that how Bama builds their team, how the Ravens won the Super Bowl 20 years ago and Ryan Leaf are entirely irrelevant to how football is played in 2018 and the topic of trading up in the 2018 draft. When you need to pull clear outliers for your reason not to do something it's moronic at best.
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: Let the record show that how Bama builds their team, how the Ravens won the Super Bowl 20 years ago and Ryan Leaf are entirely irrelevant to how football is played in 2018 and the topic of trading up in the 2018 draft. When you need to pull clear outliers for your reason not to do something it's moronic at best. FOLES, FOLES, FOLES, FOLES, FOLES, FOLES, FOLES
buffalobloodfloridahome Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 36 minutes ago, slaphappy said: I'm guessing the reasoning is because you could give up the farm and end up with a guy that turns into a leftover never has been never will be flop. Even knowing the chances of that go down by moving up it is still possible. Probably a risk aversion thing. Stocks or money market? Adding to that.. I'm betting most would be ok if we could pull off a swap to get in front of the Dolphins if we could do it with just picks 12 and 22. You could give up the farm and have a franchise QB for a long time as well. You could get the best LB in the draft and he could get hit by a car the next day too. Anything is possible but if we sit tight and hoard our picks or don't improve at the QB position we will always be a the middle of the pack. If we don't draft a top 4 QB this draft we have failed to take a chance at what could bring us over the hump. Yeah we made the playoffs last year and were a QB away from the second rd with many other glaring holes. With good QB play we win I would say at least 3 more games last year.
ricojes Posted March 30, 2018 Posted March 30, 2018 Let the record show that I will forget Pete's LAMP by draft day.... 1
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