QBs, NFL Draft, Identity Politics (New Poster)

[Teddy KGB]

16 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

 The thread was started under those pretenses of having a discussion about identity politics and QB evaluation. Its being trolled, clearly, though that is not the fault of the poster who started the thread. Its also an issue that is widely discussed in other forums, so its not out of line with regard to board policy, as far as I can tell. The fact that its being trolled doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others. There aren't alot of polite ways to discuss these topics nowadays, and if some folk are being made to feel uncomfortable over a discussion about racism, I don't think that is a bad thing.

 

Take it to PPP.  

 

Tyrod and Fitz both sucked.     Nothing to see here.  

[17 Josh Allen]

This thread needs to move to the non football forum or it should be closed down. It’s going off the rails fast. 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074

[TigerJ]

Welcome Bill.  If you could ship a little southeast Asia tropical heat back to NY State, I think all of us would appreciate it.  I'll react to your draft observations.  I think the Browns could go Darnold or Allen.  They feel like they bought time with the acquisition of Tyrod Taylor for a raw, high ceiling QB like Allen to make a successful transition to the NFL.  I have seen no evidence anywhere that the Giants have any interest at all in trading down.  The murmurs are that they are happy to be at #2.  The Jets are getting to be almost a consensus pick as the destination for Josh Rosen.  I agree that most of the trade speculation is going to focus on pick #4 going forward.  The Broncos pick at #5 and there is at least speculation they could try to draft Case Keenum's eventual successor here.  The teams you mentioned all might have motivation to try and move ahead of Denver.  I don't think Lamar Jackson is in play here, not because of his color, but because he is less conventional than the others. Combine that with the things he needs to correct, and I think the perception is that #4 is too high for him.  I think there is a possibility Josh Allen might be gone before Denver picks.  If he is, and Buffalo hasn't traded into #4, Mayfield is a real possibility for Denver.  I think Lamar Jackson will be available at #12.  I  am not sure he's a great value there, but I wouldn't complain if Buffalo felt they like him a lot and needed to do it at that point rather than risk Arizona picking him at #15.

[JohnC]

33 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

 The thread was started under those pretenses of having a discussion about identity politics and QB evaluation. Its being trolled, clearly, though that is not the fault of the poster who started the thread. Its also an issue that is widely discussed in other forums, so its not out of line with regard to board policy, as far as I can tell. The fact that its being trolled doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others. There aren't alot of polite ways to discuss these topics nowadays, and if some folk are being made to feel uncomfortable over a discussion about racism, I don't think that is a bad thing.

There's a time and a place for these off topics. I'm not uncomfortable talking about these sensitive issues. But this forum isn't the most appropriate place for it. I'm not suggesting that the topic should be completely taboo and can't be responsibly responded to when it is relevant. But what I have learned when these types of issues are addressed in this type of sports forum that it has a contaminating effect. 

[CamboBill]

10 hours ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said:

Lamar Jackson reminds me way too much of RG3 the comparisons are endless. Heisman Trophy, good arm, athletic and for while he tricked us into thinking RG3 was going to change the position of QB for the better and make pocket passers a thing of the past. Right up until defenses figured him out and just started pounding him to the ground until his skinny frame couldn't take it anymore. I liked RG3 seemed like a good dude and he got left in that one game too long when clearly he was severely injured. I am just worried that Lamar will come in and do the exact same thing is that irrational? Tyrod is another story being behind in the 4th quarter with him at QB I knew we had already lost the game he had no comeback ability or the it factor. 

I love Rosen as a solid pocket passer that can make all the throws at every level of the defense and is capable of calling plays and audibles and is accurate which is a huge factor for me. He works his butt off and is a perfectionist the fact that he is outspoken on his beliefs doesn't bother me one bit. 

Good post even if we disagree on Lamar.  I like Rosen too but his durability scares the heck out of me... 7 games missed in two years and multiple concussions is a warning sign.  I would still take the risk if he somehow dropped to #12, but reality suggests we would have to go to #2 to get him and that is just too high a price for a guy with his injury concerns.

 

Josh Allen is the wild card with Browns and Jets being linked to him, but I sort of feel these are smokescreen.

 

I think if Bills fans want a starting level QB this draft they will be looking at Mayfield or Lamar. I don't think either drops to #12 .... Mayfield never gets past Miami if he even gets that far.  Other QB hungry teams  are not going to wait to see Lamar slide to 12. For whatever his flaws there is far too much upside, and that is what drafting a franchise QB is about.

 

I just don't get the RG3 comparisons ... yes they are black and can run ... but I have seen enough tape on Lamar to know he has potential to be productive out of the pocket.  My (admiteddly fuzzy) memories of RG3S tape coming out of college are of a guy who rarely stayed in the pocket and simply rolled out, made one read, then sprinted full speed. Not the same game at all as Lamar.

 

Mayfield looks OK but not exceptional ... ,hugely productive in college but  average to below average arm, OK but not great accuracy, no experience in a pro style offense. People keep talking about the "it" factor this is more about him  knowing when the lights and cameras are on him, and he is admittedly good with the media. I see to much Manzel in him which might be unfair as I have heard nothing about any substance abuse with him ... but his apparent case of celebrityitis is worrying and I wonder how he will handle fame. On the field he reminds me of a hybrid of Menzel and Keenum coming out of college .... not awful but not that great either.  I take Lamar 10 times out of 10 over him just for the upside.

Edited March 29, 2018 by CamboBill

[Fadingpain]

The Rosen/Anti-Semitism thing is just stupid.

 

The knock on him is not that he is Jewish, it is that he is a selfish individualist in a team game who is perceived as soft and not tough.

 

Have you ever noticed that the sport of football attracts and is run by, for the most part, jock meathead types?

 

I have no idea if these labels are accurate or not.   He is definitely slightly built and looks like he could be snapped in half on an unlucky play.  

 

 

[CamboBill]

7 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Welcome Bill.  If you could ship a little southeast Asia tropical heat back to NY State, I think all of us would appreciate it.  I'll react to your draft observations.  I think the Browns could go Darnold or Allen.  They feel like they bought time with the acquisition of Tyrod Taylor for a raw, high ceiling QB like Allen to make a successful transition to the NFL.  I have seen no evidence anywhere that the Giants have any interest at all in trading down.  The murmurs are that they are happy to be at #2.  The Jets are getting to be almost a consensus pick as the destination for Josh Rosen.  I agree that most of the trade speculation is going to focus on pick #4 going forward.  The Broncos pick at #5 and there is at least speculation they could try to draft Case Keenum's eventual successor here.  The teams you mentioned all might have motivation to try and move ahead of Denver.  I don't think Lamar Jackson is in play here, not because of his color, but because he is less conventional than the others. Combine that with the things he needs to correct, and I think the perception is that #4 is too high for him.  I think there is a possibility Josh Allen might be gone before Denver picks.  If he is, and Buffalo hasn't traded into #4, Mayfield is a real possibility for Denver.  I think Lamar Jackson will be available at #12.  I  am not sure he's a great value there, but I wouldn't complain if Buffalo felt they like him a lot and needed to do it at that point rather than risk Arizona picking him at #15.

Thanks Tiger ... well it is a balmy 88 degree as I type this and is supposed to get down to a chilly 77 at night. I can see your point but I do think Lamar will go top 10. If Mayfield is gone too that does not leave much to choose from unless you are a Rudolph fan (I am not).

[CamboBill]

19 hours ago, yungmack said:

Welcome aboard. Good post. If you've been lurking, you know there are a few posters who are just cranky, a few who are naturally contrary, and a few who are indeed who are, shall we say, "race-sensitive." But the overwhelming majority are none of those things. We may be all over the place with our opinions, our knowledge, our passion for this player over that one. But most are just sincere Bills fans who want the best for our team as we each see it. The choleric minority can sometimes overshadow this fact. I guess what I'm saying is, Don't let them get you down. Keep on posting and contributing.

Thanks and I originally missed your post somehow. Yes I am sure the large majority are just sincere fans as you describe, even if some of those fall into lazy traps of analysis when considering players.  As others have pointed out every community has its bad apples and they tend to be the loudest, most insistent , threatening etc.  it goes with the territory.  As to diversity of opinions, it would be a boring place if we all agreed 100% on the path to our franchise qb.

18 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

When critiques are described as being delusional and impolite, from the get go, your not engaging in dialogue, or contributing to a community, your trying to silence people. This thread was started by a poster who wanted to have an honest conversation about identity politics and QB evaluation, and those concerns are valid (especially because Capernick seems to have been black balled from the league, while lots of QB's who are way worse than he is have backup jobs). Such conversations involve critiques, inevitably, that will make some people uncomfortable. If those critiques bother some fans, I can't fathom why they would want to participate in this conversation, outside of trying to shut the conversation down.

Thank you for the names of the studies, will see if there is a way to access them from here.  the Kap issue is another one .... regardless of where one stands on the kneeling controversy,  it is clear he is being blackballed.  ex 49er safety E Reid also seems to think he is being blackballed. Not sure about this yet as the market for safeties has been soft overall this year. Time will tell though ... Reid is too good a player to not have any suitors.

[CamboBill]

On 3/29/2018 at 8:06 AM, Teddy KGB said:

 

I’d rather listen to a Cambodian hooker talk.  

Supposedly it goes ... " I wiww wuv you wong time hansum man"

 

Hope that thought keeps you and the meanie warm on a cold western new York (or wherever you are) night. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by CamboBill

[xxxxxxxx]

8 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said:

This thread needs to move to the non football forum or it should be closed down. It’s going off the rails fast. 

 

There was an alt right kid who was trying to get the thread shut down by spewing a bunch of its not racism its facts garbage. He was interjecting in on other people's conversations because he was bored. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by MURPHD6

[Thurman#1]

I live in Japan.

 

Visited Cambodia last year for a conference. Incredible country. Man, were the people nice, and I was knocked out that they use dollars. Cracked me up. I was also really impressed at the variety of food and restaurants available in Phnom Penh. I had some goooooooooooood meals there.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Thurman#1

[BuffaloSol]

10 hours ago, MURPHD6 said:

 The thread was started under those pretenses of having a discussion about identity politics and QB evaluation. Its being trolled, clearly, though that is not the fault of the poster who started the thread. Its also an issue that is widely discussed in other forums, so its not out of line with regard to board policy, as far as I can tell. The fact that its being trolled doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others. There aren't alot of polite ways to discuss these topics nowadays, and if some folk are being made to feel uncomfortable over a discussion about racism, I don't think that is a bad thing.

Hey kid, trolling does not mean a disagreement. The fact that your arguement is weak does not mean a difference of opinion is trolling buddy. Just because you feel righteous or some people are to afraid to talk about it, doesn't give you a free pass on a debate. You failed to respond to any of my rebuttals because you knew how weak your arguement was, and the only way to keep your political identity in tact was to change the subject or not respond. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[BuffaloSol]

1 hour ago, CamboBill said:

Thanks and I originally missed your post somehow. Yes I am sure the large majority are just sincere fans as you describe, even if some of those fall into lazy traps of analysis when considering players.  As others have pointed out every community has its bad apples and they tend to be the loudest, most insistent , threatening etc.  it goes with the territory.  As to diversity of opinions, it would be a boring place if we all agreed 100% on the path to our franchise qb.

Thank you for the names of the studies, will see if there is a way to access them from here.  the Kap issue is another one .... regardless of where one stands on the kneeling controversy,  it is clear he is being blackballed.  ex 49er safety E Reid also seems to think he is being blackballed. Not sure about this yet as the market for safeties has been soft overall this year. Time will tell though ... Reid is too good a player to not have any suitors.

You brought up race and wanted a discussion but, anytime someone has a rebuttal you think okay to hide behind the guise of people are being race sensitive? Then you discuss Identity politics like you are not part of the issue. If you are scared to talk about race and can't handle facts being shown to you or a difference of opinion don't bring it up.

 

You wanted a discussion you got one, but don't act like you didn't expect people being offended that you interjected race with zero proof.

 

Answer this not some other part of my discussion- Let's face it where is your proof of the claims that a large part of fans in Buffalo made there decision on Tyrod based on Race, the media made decisions on Tyrod based on race, and the organization made decisions based on race?

 

>>>>>Again answer last question<<<<<<

Edited March 29, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[Peevo]

23 hours ago, ricojes said:

Race does not factor into analyzing TT, for the most part it's all about your statement which I bolded.  He is a decent QB and game manager and nothing else.  He is a high character guy and I wish him the best in Cleveland, but I am glad he is no longer in Buffalo.  He wasn't treated unfairly here as some might think, he started for 3 seasons!  He was benched for refusing to throw the ball into tight windows and playing it too safe.  The anger here isn't directed at TT, but towards other posters who over value TT's contributions and believe he is better than he actually is and that the Bills were somehow holding him back.  It's those ridiculous comments that will ensure a heated TT debate, but I can assure you that most here appreciate TT's contributions and have nothing but respect for the way he handled himself as a Bill.  The color of the QB's skin does not matter to Bills fans, it's all about winning.  It's unfortunate that your post mentioned race, but welcome to the board...

 

 

See I agree with this. He made, what, 44 starts as a Bill?  That's the most for a Bills QB in a long time. 

 

EJ Manuel was a 1st round pick and made 18 starts as a Bill!  Think about the playing time versus investment.  Tyrod was signed as a throwaway free agent, and ends up starting full time for a decent stretch.

 

His body of work speaks for itself. 3,000 yards passing a season is nowhere near the NFL passing standard in 2018.  He has 1, count it, 1, 300 yard game in his career.  Not enough.

 

 

[xxxxxxxx]

Forget TT, he is kind of an outlier in all of this, when compared to what's going on with Colin Kapernick. Arguably, if it was all about winning Kap would be a backup somewhere. But its not all about winning, its also about business. And teams don't want to rattle the sensitivities of fans who loose their **** over anthem protests - who are the same types of fans who are trying to get this thread shut down. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/07/7-reasons-why-you-really-shouldnt-move-to-cambodia/

 

"Lately, there have been a lot of Westerners moving to Cambodia or making plans to move to Cambodia. This is partly due to the difficult job market in many Western countries, and it’s partly due to Cambodia becoming a more “mainstream” destination for tourists and expatriates. Some of the recent interest in Cambodia has come from Westerners living in Thailand. Rising prices in Thailand and stricter Thai visa regulations have already contributed to a noticeable influx of shifty-eyed, tattooed sexpats creeping across the border into Cambodia. Fortunately, a lot of those dudes haven’t made it past Sihanoukville."

 

Interesting fun read  in that link.

 

Anyway, how does one follow the draft in other parts of the world I wonder? How much news lag is there? We will know as it happens thank goodness.

Edited March 29, 2018 by BadLandsMeanie

[CamboBill]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

I live in Japan.

 

Visited Cambodia last year for a conference. Incredible country. Man, were the people nice, and I was knocked out that they use dollars. Cracked me up. I was also really impressed at the variety of food and restaurants available in Phnom Penh. I had some goooooooooooood meals there.

Cool. If ever in the area again let me know. I rarely travel now, but in my 3 trips to Japan I found it fascinating but a bit overwhelming.  Sadly the trips were all business and i never made it outside of Tokyo.  Food in Phnom Penh is fantastic ... local fare is a bit inferior to neighboring Thailand and Vietnam, but you can appreciate the different influences. Being a former french colony with many French restaurants there is a remarkable number of choices here, not to mention you can buy baguettes and good coffee from any number of street vendors.

[CamboBill]

3 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

You brought up race and wanted a discussion but, anytime someone has a rebuttal you think okay to hide behind the guise of people are being race sensitive? Then you discuss Identity politics like you are not part of the issue. If you are scared to talk about race and can't handle facts being shown to you or a difference of opinion don't bring it up.

 

You wanted a discussion you got one, but don't act like you didn't expect people being offended that you interjected race with zero proof.

 

Answer this not some other part of my discussion- Let's face it where is your proof of the claims that a large part of fans in Buffalo made there decision on Tyrod based on Race, the media made decisions on Tyrod based on race, and the organization made decisions based on race?

 

>>>>>Again answer last question<<<<<<

One reason I have not replied to you much and left you to spar with Murph instead is you have shown a propensity (as many fanatics do) of misrepresenting your targets viewpoints.  It is a common propaganda technique and one which I am wise to. For example, you insist I answer your question "where is your proof of the claims that a large part of fans in Buffalo made there decision on Tyrod based on Race, the media made decisions on Tyrod based on race, and the organization made decisions based on race?"

 

How can I justify this position when I have NEVER come close to taking it.

 

Thus your approach is dishonest and suggests you are more interested in derailing the topic rather than engaging it.

 

My posts have questioned, why so many people cannot say anything positive about Tyrod Taylor ... a lower middle tier QB, with high character, an underdog story, and a gamer who did all he could for the team.  Post after post of Tyrold is trash, thank god he is gone etc. I get that he was not the next Jim Kelly but he was probable the best we have had since, and it is not like we had a replacement tearing things up .... I mean a rookie 5th round pick with a rep for turnovers in college?!

 

Then I see so many more that are outright dismissive of Lamar Jackson as a prospect, with lazy comparisons like "the next Tyrod" and the "next rg3" and it is enough to make one wonder. So I QUESTIONED how much of an issue people here though race and stereotypes still played in QB perceptions.

 

On the Internet,  the most fringe tend to be the most vocal, so I am happy I have gotten a good cross section of replies here ... the usual two or three trolls trying to derail the topic is an expected and acceptable price for this.  As other posters have pointed out EVERY franchise probably has kkk types, neonazi types, and other cretins embedded in their fan base... fortunately those numbers are probably quite tiny, a step up from this is a segment that still believes black qbs cannot succeed in the NFL ... and the oft mentioned Russ Wilson and Cam Newton have more than their share of haters.  A lot of these views are probably not deliberately racist but are still dangerous no matter how much code words like "Pocket Passer" are used.  When I look at Lamar Jackson I see a pocket Passer,  high football IQ, with some throwing mechanics issues, and can run like hell.

 

I am not suggesting that all, or even, most critics of Tyrod or LJ are racist but it would be interesting to see a correlation between the two. At the very least people should be cautious of lazy thinking .... look at how many people dismissed DeShawn Watson last year. How did that work out?

 

I also raised ROSEN, because as I looked deeply in to each qb candidate  I kept seeing "Character issues" , "soft", "bad fit", "no passion for game" in summaries of Rosen. The deeper I dug all I could find was some anti-trump comments, criticism of NCAA profiteering, and the fact that he kept a hot tub in his flat.  Wow! Such character issues!  Yet mindlessly repeated by media and fans alike. .   Durability, issues aside we should be lucky to have the kid.

 

We live in an Era where MSM like Fox News tells LeBron James to "shut op and dribble", Kap's career blackballed and ruined for his stance, ... now it's know your place or pay the price to Rosen.

 

Regardless of what one believes about flag or anthem protests, this is a toxic, and dangerous environment.  Pro sports is at the vanguard of America culture, if these issues cannot be discussed here, where can they be discussed?

[CamboBill]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/07/7-reasons-why-you-really-shouldnt-move-to-cambodia/

 

"Lately, there have been a lot of Westerners moving to Cambodia or making plans to move to Cambodia. This is partly due to the difficult job market in many Western countries, and it’s partly due to Cambodia becoming a more “mainstream” destination for tourists and expatriates. Some of the recent interest in Cambodia has come from Westerners living in Thailand. Rising prices in Thailand and stricter Thai visa regulations have already contributed to a noticeable influx of shifty-eyed, tattooed sexpats creeping across the border into Cambodia. Fortunately, a lot of those dudes haven’t made it past Sihanoukville."

 

Interesting fun read  in that link.

 

Anyway, how does one follow the draft in other parts of the world I wonder? How much news lag is there? We will know as it happens thank goodness.

I keep suggesting that you start a thread on Cambodia in the the non-football part of this forum so as not to go too far off topic. That said your more recent post is a bit less trolling so I will offer a reply here. I am quite familiar with the link you cite ... it is funny, written tongue in cheek but also with some truth to it.  The link is now 5 years old. 10 to 15 years ago Sihanoukvville (Cambodia's only ocean front city) was a notorious den of Russian mobsters on the run, drug and arms dealers, pedophiles and other assorted predators. Most expats here view it as a s#&thole.  As the Russian economy crashed, most of the mobsters left but 5 to 6  years ago (as the link you provide indicates) after the latest Thai military coup, there was a crackdown on the many visa overstayers in the Sexpat city of Pattaya which caused a temporary influx of Sexpat refugees from there.  However,  since then, Sihanoukvville (as has much of urban Cambodia) has gentrified   Almost all of the coastline property has been sold to Chinese investors who are converting the entire city into a casino town replete with its own airport, and chartered flights to China.  Most of the Sexpat refugees from Thailand  have either found ways to stay in Pattaya or given up and gone home.  From the Russian mob capital of SEA to 2  years of sex tourist refugee center to a Chinese casino town. All In 10 years. That is progress in Sihanoukvville.

[BuffaloSol]

2 hours ago, CamboBill said:

One reason I have not replied to you much and left you to spar with Murph instead is you have shown a propensity (as many fanatics do) of misrepresenting your targets viewpoints.  It is a common propaganda technique and one which I am wise to. For example, you insist I answer your question "where is your proof of the claims that a large part of fans in Buffalo made there decision on Tyrod based on Race, the media made decisions on Tyrod based on race, and the organization made decisions based on race?"

 

How can I justify this position when I have NEVER come close to taking it.

 

Thus your approach is dishonest and suggests you are more interested in derailing the topic rather than engaging it.

 

My posts have questioned, why so many people cannot say anything positive about Tyrod Taylor ... a lower middle tier QB, with high character, an underdog story, and a gamer who did all he could for the team.  Post after post of Tyrold is trash, thank god he is gone etc. I get that he was not the next Jim Kelly but he was probable the best we have had since, and it is not like we had a replacement tearing things up .... I mean a rookie 5th round pick with a rep for turnovers in college?!

 

Then I see so many more that are outright dismissive of Lamar Jackson as a prospect, with lazy comparisons like "the next Tyrod" and the "next rg3" and it is enough to make one wonder. So I QUESTIONED how much of an issue people here though race and stereotypes still played in QB perceptions.

 

On the Internet,  the most fringe tend to be the most vocal, so I am happy I have gotten a good cross section of replies here ... the usual two or three trolls trying to derail the topic is an expected and acceptable price for this.  As other posters have pointed out EVERY franchise probably has kkk types, neonazi types, and other cretins embedded in their fan base... fortunately those numbers are probably quite tiny, a step up from this is a segment that still believes black qbs cannot succeed in the NFL ... and the oft mentioned Russ Wilson and Cam Newton have more than their share of haters.  A lot of these views are probably not deliberately racist but are still dangerous no matter how much code words like "Pocket Passer" are used.  When I look at Lamar Jackson I see a pocket Passer,  high football IQ, with some throwing mechanics issues, and can run like hell.

 

I am not suggesting that all, or even, most critics of Tyrod or LJ are racist but it would be interesting to see a correlation between the two. At the very least people should be cautious of lazy thinking .... look at how many people dismissed DeShawn Watson last year. How did that work out?

 

I also raised ROSEN, because as I looked deeply in to each qb candidate  I kept seeing "Character issues" , "soft", "bad fit", "no passion for game" in summaries of Rosen. The deeper I dug all I could find was some anti-trump comments, criticism of NCAA profiteering, and the fact that he kept a hot tub in his flat.  Wow! Such character issues!  Yet mindlessly repeated by media and fans alike. .   Durability, issues aside we should be lucky to have the kid.

 

We live in an Era where MSM like Fox News tells LeBron James to "shut op and dribble", Kap's career blackballed and ruined for his stance, ... now it's know your place or pay the price to Rosen.

 

Regardless of what one believes about flag or anthem protests, this is a toxic, and dangerous environment.  Pro sports is at the vanguard of America culture, if these issues cannot be discussed here, where can they be discussed?

Apparently you think people don't understand how to read something and understand what the person writing is implying. Speaking in vague terms and using false equivalencies. It's a tactic I've seen used enough times that I am wise to it. It's usually used by people to give themselves a way out during a debate and a way to take a stance without being forced to back that stance up

 

Another tactic I am wise to is deflection of answers by trying to discredit the debate stating that propaganda is the same thing as asking you show some proof of your  "wonder" about fans use of race in determining their like or dislike of a player. 

"Derailing the topic" by questioning the validity of your claim that Tyrod and now Lamar are being unfairly judged due to their race. That's called engaging in the topic I'm sorry your political ideology doesn't fit with my rebuttals of the claims you proposed.

 

Well I am glad you had a great source for your next statement "As other posters have pointed out EVERY franchise probably has kkk types, neonazi types, and other cretins embedded in their fan base..." which while statically anyone could probably conclude that, using at as point to lead in to your next arguement is another Tactic I am wise to. It is a way to try and cleverly conclude that there are much larger group of people (other than just the blatant scum racists) that think black QB`s cannot succeed in the NFL only because they are black. While you again make the statement that NFL Starting QBs have their fair share of criticism, you lead in the arguement by stating it is an unfair criticism based on being black. Which again you failed to show proof that their criticism is based on their race. So unlike you tried to say earlier by stating "you NEVER came close" you actually did. 

 

If you think a review of a QB in which some scout says or doesn't say the "code word" (which apparently is your way implying scouts have code words based on Race) of Pocket Passer "dangerous" with the potential of being "deliberately racist" I feel sorry for you. Oh and again zero facts regarding the "dangerous" use of Pocket Passer or Dual Threat. 

 

Well thanks for sharing your evaluation of Lamar Jackson and  guess what you'll be happy to hear that there are plenty of scouts that see him that way, but you think based on your extensive scouting knowledge every Scout must say either he is Pocket Passer or not say something that implies he can run as well?

 

That is why I used the word delusional earlier, Lamar Jackson ran for three THOUSAND yards in the last two years with possible 4.3 speed and you think it's okay to say that it's "dangerous" maybe even "deliberately racist" if some of the people that scout him don't say he only a pocket passer QB? 

 

 

As far as Rosen people have a right to question his character it doesn't make it right or wrong. He clearly rubs some people the wrong way and there were reports that came out of UCLA(who knows how true they are or if it was a way for his agent or another teams scout to make sure the browns pass), they have a right to their opinion on him. I personally think he has the highest floor but am very worried about two concussions and other injury history.

 

Did you really say know your place or pay the price about Rosen? You're kidding right....... the price? He is a clear Top ten pick with potential to go number one in a draft that has not happened yet. Sign me up for paying the price please. Or better yet LeBrons price, I would have movie and book deals and someone I already think is an idiot on Fox news that says they think I should shut up because of my political views(oh the horror). Have you watched main stream media lately they have all chosen sides, to act like Fox News is the only one that does it is extremely naive. 

 

 

We dont have time to get into the kapernick james stuff and it should go in ppp. But I'll say a couple things since you brought it up. Saying it's racist or he is being blackballed because of race is also lacking proof, everyone on the the right that is mad says it's due to disrespect of the flag while everyone on the left says it's racist, they are both out of line. I know what kap was trying to say and I don't think he was trying to disrespect the flag, doesn't mean I have to agree with his stances. I will say he didn't help himself with the childlike pig as a cop socks(ya know the MAJORITY of which are underpaid public servants that put their life on the line and are good people) and defending the dictator Castro to a Cuban refugee(pretty hard to bring him to the dolphins last year after that), along with ya know the football and business things involved.

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by BuffaloSol