QBs, NFL Draft, Identity Politics (New Poster)

[BuffaloSol]

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

There are alot of Bills fans outside of Buffalo and the United States who feel that Tyrod was unfairly treated by the coaching staff and a portion of the local fan base and that the situation was not disimilar to what happened to Warren moon. The fact that the US president wants to build a wall around the country does not help this situation, especially from the perspective of fans abroad. Plenty of lical fans will deny that race has anything to do with it and try to silence any one who dares to raise the question of race as well, largely because they don't identify as being racist, and are either unaware or refuse to ackknowledge the subtler ways that racism works. They don't speak for the entire local or international fan base, however. They are just the loudest and most sensitive. And I say sensitive because even the suggestion of racism makes them fly off the handle. Sadly, such is the state of the US today.

Most people outside of Buffalo are not as delusional as you. Most people prefer to not always play the victim and live here in the real world, where you question someone's ability without needing the crutch of racism. And to call the Tyrod Taylor situation situation similar to Warren Moon shows how disrespectful and delusional some people are.

[xxxxxxxx]

Just now, BuffaloSol said:

Most people outside of Buffalo are not as delusional as you. Most people prefer to not always play the victim and live here in the real world, where you question someone's ability without needing the crutch of racism. And to call the Tyrod Taylor situation situation similar to Warren Moon shows how disrespectful and delusional some people are.

See very sensitive.

[BuffaloSol]

Just now, MURPHD6 said:

See very sensitive.

See very delusional and disrespectful.

[CamboBill]

1 hour ago, Scorp83 said:

I feel the same way... most people on here haven't done any research on these QB's... they'll hide behind their posts & pretty much copy what someone else have said that they would agree with in a negative light. When you read they're reasoning for not liking Jackson... it almost sounds like that haven't watch but 2 of his bad games ? .... then they come away hating the prospect. These posters your about to encounter will ignore the fact that Jackson improved greatly in almost every aspect at the QB position! They'll ignore that his completion got better, yet he threw the ball more, & he pass the ball first & only scrambled when he had too cause Louisville O-line sucked & they had hardly no WR's. He almost had nothing & ran a Bobby Petrino offense like a pro.  This is why scouts like LJ... cause he's shown growth. Plus there's alot of growth left undeveloped. Imagine what he'll do when he gets drafted to a team a legit weapons... I can see him, KB & Zay Jones looking really good together. Those 2 are better then what he had at Louisville... but he didn't have them & still had eye popping games passing the ball. 

 

Mayfield & Rosen are my too favorite though. Just because their not tight & close to the vest... they're human ... & show it! I'd rather have Mayfield cause I believe he's a culture changer... that's some the Bills definitely needs. He can adapt McBeane vision & add his own twist... similar what Joel Embiid has done with the 76ers. You need that type of player in your locker room.

While I rank Jackson as the #3 QB this year, I also think he is the most underrated.  his pro day is on the 29th so that might at least get him some media buzz.  I think it's crazy that nobody includes him in speculation  of top QBs  to be drafted.. Your point about his improvement year to year is a good one.  On another thread on this board there was an interesting video demonstrating his ability to read coverage, multiple reads, and get the ball out.  His throwing mechanics still need work (leg drive rather than relying on arm whip) but that is fixible. I see composure with this guy, not a panicked tuck and run guy, and tells me a lot.

Edited March 28, 2018 by CamboBill

[Teddy KGB]

You should bring up Tyrod’s stats as opposed to this race bs.    He really stunk last year, the race card can’t save him. 

 

Lamar Jackson has some elite tools but needs some refinement as a consistent passer.  

 

The jew can sling that thing.      Draft him.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[CamboBill]

34 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Welcome aboard.

 

As you may have noticed being a lurker 

 

Many who deem themselves "experts" cry the loudest when confronted with facts that prove them wrong.   Expected retorts - moron, idiot, clueless, you offer nothing to this board, did I say idiot?    Oh and Mrags should stay. 

 

Me, I'm just a fan trying to bring color to conversations.   
 

You didn't happen to work for Air America in the 80's did you? 

Yeah ... it is the Internet so you anticipate meeting all types of people.    This place is pretty opinionated (as it should be) but not as savage as other forums I have seen. In fact the Tyrod Saga was really the only ongoing divisive topic this year. I understood people saying we need better when it came to Tyrod .... but Nate Peterman a rookie 5th round pick ... still smh. Anyway it is water on the bridge ... but when I see the same arguments against Lamar Jackson, I cringe a little bit.

 

Never involved with Air America.

[xxxxxxxx]

11 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

See very delusional and disrespectful.

And this is pretty much the state of identity politics as its occuring in the United States at the moment. There are people who feel that the US is exceptional and that critiques are unwarranted, and there are alot of people, like Mr. Rosen, who feel that the time has come to speak out.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, MURPHD6 said:

And this is pretty much the state of identity politics as its occuring in the United States at the moment. There are people who feel that the US is exceptional and that critiques are unwarranted, and there are alot of people, like Mr. Rosen, who feel that the time has come to speak out.

 

Identity politics is a disease.

 

It divides, it splinters, it does NOTHING to unite.

 

[Chuck Wagon]

All I'm going to say is there's certainly coded language (blue collar, etc) that goes with nearly every argument of the people who want Mayfield over Rosen.

[CamboBill]

53 minutes ago, PIP said:

Great to hear we have Bills fans way across the pond Bill wear that Buffalo proud!!!  

Appreciate it. Thanks.  Go Bills!

[ricojes]

8 hours ago, CamboBill said:

 

Tyrod Taylor ... to me a decent QB and game manager and high character guy.  Far from being the "answer" at QB but better than anything we have had there since the 90s .  I get fans wanting more from the position ... I don't get the seemingly outright hatred on this board for him and outright dismissal of his contributions.  I am fine with moving on from him even though I thought he was under appreciated here.  Reading some posts here it seems like Warren Moon 2.0 could come here and get run out of town.  Not suggesting that all critics of Tyrol are racist, but I am wondering, particularly not being in Buffalo for many years, how much race is a factor in anti-Tyrod sentiments.  I find it more troubling when I see people so quick to dismiss Lamar Jackson .... a much different player than Tyrod ... as if all athletic black QBS are the same.  Hopefully without turning this thread into a flame fest on race, I am generally interested if people see it as an issue among some significant parts of the fan base.

 

 

 

 

Race does not factor into analyzing TT, for the most part it's all about your statement which I bolded.  He is a decent QB and game manager and nothing else.  He is a high character guy and I wish him the best in Cleveland, but I am glad he is no longer in Buffalo.  He wasn't treated unfairly here as some might think, he started for 3 seasons!  He was benched for refusing to throw the ball into tight windows and playing it too safe.  The anger here isn't directed at TT, but towards other posters who over value TT's contributions and believe he is better than he actually is and that the Bills were somehow holding him back.  It's those ridiculous comments that will ensure a heated TT debate, but I can assure you that most here appreciate TT's contributions and have nothing but respect for the way he handled himself as a Bill.  The color of the QB's skin does not matter to Bills fans, it's all about winning.  It's unfortunate that your post mentioned race, but welcome to the board...

Edited March 28, 2018 by ricojes

[CamboBill]

52 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

It's a shame you had to bring up race so early instead of just comparing players to other NFL QBS. I don't agree on the rankings I'd go D'arnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen, Jackson; but I do agree on most of the ceiling/floor comparisons except Allen's floor(not sure who) and ceiling(Aaron Rodgers) and Jackson's floor(RG3)

Race is an important topic as long as people do not rush to conclusions either way. As to Alle's floor ... I considered hackenbug but thought that too unfair

[BuffaloSol]

10 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

And this is pretty much the state of identity politics as its occuring in the United States at the moment. There are people who feel that the US is exceptional and that critiques are unwarranted, and there are alot of people, like Mr. Rosen, who feel that the time has come to speak out.

You are proving your own point concerning identity politics, you are making the assumption that only "Mr. Rosen" is "speaking out." Critiques are clearly warranted and happen all the time in the US, just because you don't like someone's belief or critique does not make it less of a critique. Here is the definition of Identity politics-a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics. 

 

 

(you are also clearly making the assumption that I am on one of two sides of the main US political identities. I am not.)

Edited March 28, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[Scorp83]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

I'm curious. If "most people" on this board are such a despicable lot, do you care to tell us why you post here?

 

I'm going to venture a guess, OK? I am thinking that you have come to enlighten us with your abundance of football knowledge and insight. Am I close? If so, thanks. I'm not sure how we survived sans your bevy of wonderful information.

I post on here cause I love my Bills, like everyone... & I miss the Buffalo Bills Message board. The most I'm referring too doesn't make up this entire forum... 

 

Don't get defensive cause I ruffled some feathers with my "If the Shoe fits...wear it" post.  

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

OP should stick to lurking. It plays better to his strengths.

 

And I'd prefer to draft Mike White over LamaRG3.

See what I'm talking about Bill From NYC? There's no defending this type of ignorance 

45 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

There are alot of Bills fans outside of Buffalo and the United States who feel that Tyrod was unfairly treated by the coaching staff and a portion of the local fan base and that the situation was not disimilar to what happened to Warren moon. The fact that the US president wants to build a wall around the country does not help this situation, especially from the perspective of fans abroad. Some local fans will deny that race has anything to do with it and try to silence any one who dares to raise the question of race, as well, largely because they don't identify as being racist, and are either unaware or refuse to ackknowledge the subtler ways that racism works. They don't speak for the entire local or international fan base, however. They are just the loudest and most sensitive. And I say sensitive because even the suggestion of racism makes them fly off the handle. 

Very well said... see this is the other side of this forum the good & pure. ?

40 minutes ago, BuffaloSol said:

Most people outside of Buffalo are not as delusional as you. Most people prefer to not always play the victim and live here in the real world, where you question someone's ability without needing the crutch of racism. And to call the Tyrod Taylor situation situation similar to Warren Moon shows how disrespectful and delusional some people are.

Sad... so sad... but hey that's your opinion 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Scorp83

[CamboBill]

39 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

There are alot of Bills fans outside of Buffalo and the United States who feel that Tyrod was unfairly treated by the coaching staff and a portion of the local fan base and that the situation was not disimilar to what happened to Warren moon. The fact that the US president wants to build a wall around the country does not help this situation, especially from the perspective of fans abroad. Some local fans will deny that race has anything to do with it and try to silence any one who dares to raise the question of race, as well, largely because they don't identify as being racist, and are either unaware or refuse to ackknowledge the subtler ways that racism works. They don't speak for the entire local or international fan base, however. They are just the loudest and most sensitive. And I say sensitive because even the suggestion of racism makes them fly off the handle. 

Thanks, I understand your point.  The Tyrod benching was one of the most embarrassing days I can remember in recent Bills history.  I understand how bad he was in preceeding weeks.   but still .... I am generally optimistic about the McBean Era ... but this was a bad day for them.

 

I suspect we share the same sentiments as to current presidency although to be fair, the alternative was awful too. I won't say more here because we should keep it football specific.

[BadLandsMeanie]

17 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

All I'm going to say is there's certainly coded language (blue collar, etc) that goes with nearly every argument of the people who want Mayfield over Rosen.

That is just wrong.

 

"Blue Collar" has been use about Buffalo and the Bills for at least 20 years now. So has "lunch pail"

 

Meanwhile none of these players are blue collar, Or carry a lunch pail. They get catered meals. 

 

Rosen is no less blue collar or lunch pail than any of them. And you are paranoid to think all of a sudden it is a "code word".

[BuffaloSol]

5 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

Race is an important topic as long as people do not rush to conclusions either way. As to Alle's floor ... I considered hackenbug but thought that too unfair

It's not that important though, the color of someone's skin does not effect how they play football. Race is a crutch in your arguement, and. Most scouts have a first round grade on Lamar and he ranges anywhere from the third to the fifth best qb in this draft class, why does that have anything to do with race. 

[Mr. WEO]

Suggesting that any criticism of TT was at all due to his race is absurd.  I say this as a well documented TT supporter.

 

Bills fans would be beyond delighted if Russell Wilson showed up at OBD to sign a long term contract today.  Same is likely true for Newton.  Or Watson.

 

Also, I'm guessing 95% of Bills fans in Buffalo had no idea what Rosen's religion is when they saw him play this season and heard his comments on the NCAA etc.

 

 

[Scorp83]

40 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

While I rank Jackson as the #3 QB this year, I also think he is the most underrated.  his pro day is on the 29th so that might at least get him some media buzz.  I think it's crazy that nobody includes him in speculation  of top QBs  to be drafted.. Your point about his improvement year to year is a good one.  On another thread on this board there was an interesting video demonstrating his ability to read coverage, multiple reads, and get the ball out.  His throwing mechanics still need work (leg drive rather than relying on arm whip) but that is fixible. I see composure with this guy, not a panicked tuck and run guy, and tells me a lot.

Exactly! & as you read, i have him #3 also. The reason he isnt getting much buzz tho, is because ge doesnt have an agent pushing in the public eye all day. His mother is representing him... hey i get it, "keep your money in the family" but I do think is a mistake on his part & he could slip in the draft because of it. But, talent always prevail & I stand by my conviction that's he's a better prospect than Watson. Someone is going to get a steal with him late in the 1st... & his weight isn't concerning... he's young by the time he's 26 he'll gain 10lbs of marriage weight ?

[BuffaloSol]

24 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

Thanks, I understand your point.  The Tyrod benching was one of the most embarrassing days I can remember in recent Bills history.  I understand how bad he was in preceeding weeks.   but still .... I am generally optimistic about the McBean Era ... but this was a bad day for them.

 

I suspect we share the same sentiments as to current presidency although to be fair, the alternative was awful too. I won't say more here because we should keep it football specific.

Our countries presidency is a joke we had the two worst candidates last election it was major corruption vs major dbag, but I think most people would rather live in the US over Cambodia(I hope you don't take offense to that).

 

So, if Tyrod was white would it be okay to try a rookie with potential after your starter, with an option to release him at the end of the year, threw for 56 yards and a pick the week before and got blown out by the Jets a week before that. They put Tyrod back in during the second half of that game after they realized Peterman was not the answer, again how in the world is that race related?

Edited March 28, 2018 by BuffaloSol