QBs, NFL Draft, Identity Politics (New Poster)

[CamboBill]

Hi All,

 

I am a new poster but long time reader who left upstate NY in the late 80s and left the USA in the mid 90s.  Have lived in Southeast Asia since then. As far as I know I am the only Bills fan in this part of the world.  If any others ... please give a shout out.  .  NFL game pass and MBs like this are very helpful in being able to follow my favorite sports team, but not being in the area it is hard to get a real pulse on the fan base.

 

A couple of observations .... Tyrod Taylor ... to me a decent QB and game manager and high character guy.  Far from being the "answer" at QB but better than anything we have had there since the 90s .  I get fans wanting more from the position ... I don't get the seemingly outright hatred on this board for him and outright dismissal of his contributions.  I am fine with moving on from him even though I thought he was under appreciated here.  Reading some posts here it seems like Warren Moon 2.0 could come here and get run out of town.  Not suggesting that all critics of Tyrol are racist, but I am wondering, particularly not being in Buffalo for many years, how much race is a factor in anti-Tyrod sentiments.  I find it more troubling when I see people so quick to dismiss Lamar Jackson .... a much different player than Tyrod ... as if all athletic black QBS are the same.  Hopefully without turning this thread into a flame fest on race, I am generally interested if people see it as an issue among some significant parts of the fan base.

 

Similarly I see a trend ... league wide ... with Josh Rosen.  I get the durability concerns but all the character concerns noise appears to be nonsense.  Never mentioned directly, is the fact that Rosen is Jewish, and a lot of the attacks on him seem to carry the traces of "antisemitism" .... soft, born with silver spoon in his mouth, outspoken, trouble maker ... and I see nothing to substantiate this.  He criticized Trump ... that is his right.  He commented about NCAA'S profiteering for  student atheletes ... rightfully so IMHO ... as is also his right. Personally I prefer a QB with a brain and not a robot who just marches to the drum beat.  Anyway, I predict the kid will go to a city with a large Jewish Population (NY, or MIA or LAC in a trade up) and will thrive (as long as he stays healthy).  The concerns in some cities  are he is not "blue collar" enough.   What does this mean in a QB setting??? ..... he needs to wave the flag more and never challenge authority?  This is not what Blue Collar meant when I grew up in the USA (60s through 80s).

 

As far as the draft goes ... a few comments and predictions:

 

1) Browns go with D'arnold #1

2) Giants look to trade down .... I really hope it is not the Bills because the price will be far too high ... particularly if 2019  first rounder is included. As long as the Bills don't to something stupid I don't see anyone else paying that price.  So Giants will either need to discount with Bills or will draft Barkley.  The Bills paying 3 first rounders and 2 or 3 second rounders (as is rumored to be the Giants asking price) is my worst night mare for this draft.

3) Jets grab Rosen who will be a great fit for them.

4) Serious Trading starts here ... Browns need help at OT but this is too early for McGlinchey.  Bills trade  #12 and #22 for #4.  They are likely bidding against Mia and Arizona here, so if they have to sweeten with a mid rounder so be it. .... choice of  L Jackson,  J Allen, or Mayfield here and I am fine with any although I prefer LJ, JA, BM in that order.

5) If the Browns don't deal #4 and take Chubb instead .. Then Denver takes  J Allen ... rocky Mountain boy somewhat reminiscent of Elway.

6) The Colts do not need to trade down again ... take Q Nelson

7) The draft's player values  start to level off here with Barkley,  Chubb, Nelson off the board.  Thus Chi and TB might make good trade up partners if we fail with the Browns and are smart enough to walk away from the Giants.  Cost should be #12 plus a 2nd rounder .... maybe a bit more if Mia or Ari is aggressively in on the pink.  Allen is gone here but we would still jave a choice of Lamar Jackson or Mayfield.

 

I don't think a decent Qb will be available at #12, but I don't think it makes sense to overpay for #2 either.  the gap be ween the best Qb and the 5th best is just not that high this year.

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by CamboBill
typos

[Tenhigh]

Welcome, Bill.   I appreciate you being able to stay dedicated after all of these years, its gotta be difficult to strike up a conversation on the Bills in a Cambodian sports bar!  I think that in terms of LJ, you'll find that many folks are going to cite accuracy (I don' think his completion % was ever above 60%), or the fact that he is too skinny.  I'm sure there's a pinch or racism in there too for some folks.  Rosen's detractors seem to be all based on his personality.  I think a lot of folks are tired of having politics injected into their football (me included), but I'd be fine with Rosen as our QB as long as his play backed up his mouth.  

[Inigo Montoya]

I will parry your questions about racial and religious attitudes as deftly as my nom de plume Inigo Montoya swats aside the rapier thrusts of the Six Fingered Man, Count Rugen, as those questions can blow up a message board....

 

As to your other points, I agree that trading up to #2 will be too expensive, and I hope they keep their powder dry and pounce on any of the top QBs who might drop past the #3 spot.  I've become a Josh Allen guy.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Inigo Montoya

[mead107]

Welcome 

what took you to Cambodia? Do you get back to New York? 

[LeGOATski]

And some despise Mayfield because they hate little people!

[Scorp83]

18 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Welcome, Bill.   I appreciate you being able to stay dedicated after all of these years, its gotta be difficult to strike up a conversation on the Bills in a Cambodian sports bar!  I think that in terms of LJ, you'll find that many folks are going to cite accuracy (I don' think his completion % was ever above 60%), or the fact that he is too skinny.  I'm sure there's a pinch or racism in there too for some folks.  Rosen's detractors seem to be all based on his personality.  I think a lot of folks are tired of having politics injected into their football (me included), but I'd be fine with Rosen as our QB as long as his play backed up his mouth.  

I feel the same way... most people on here haven't done any research on these QB's... they'll hide behind their posts & pretty much copy what someone else have said that they would agree with in a negative light. When you read they're reasoning for not liking Jackson... it almost sounds like that haven't watch but 2 of his bad games ? .... then they come away hating the prospect. These posters your about to encounter will ignore the fact that Jackson improved greatly in almost every aspect at the QB position! They'll ignore that his completion got better, yet he threw the ball more, & he pass the ball first & only scrambled when he had too cause Louisville O-line sucked & they had hardly no WR's. He almost had nothing & ran a Bobby Petrino offense like a pro.  This is why scouts like LJ... cause he's shown growth. Plus there's alot of growth left undeveloped. Imagine what he'll do when he gets drafted to a team a legit weapons... I can see him, KB & Zay Jones looking really good together. Those 2 are better then what he had at Louisville... but he didn't have them & still had eye popping games passing the ball. 

 

Mayfield & Rosen are my too favorite though. Just because their not tight & close to the vest... they're human ... & show it! I'd rather have Mayfield cause I believe he's a culture changer... that's some the Bills definitely needs. He can adapt McBeane vision & add his own twist... similar what Joel Embiid has done with the 76ers. You need that type of player in your locker room.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Scorp83

[BuffaloSol]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

And some despise Mayfield because they hate little people!

(Exactly, this is a great point)

 

Also, some despise Allen because he has a strong Arm like Jeff George and athletic like Jake Locker or Blake Bortles. These comparisons are clearly racist, ugh only comparing him to White QB`s?!?!.......It's 2018 people

[Bill from NYC]

3 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

I feel the same way... most people on here haven't done any research on these QB's... they'll hide behind their posts & pretty much copy what someone else have said that they would agree with in a negative light. When you read they're reasoning for not liking Jackson... it almost sounds like that haven't watch but 2 of his bad games ? .... then they come away hating the prospect. These posters your about to encounter will ignore the fact that Jackson improved greatly in almost every aspect at the QB position! They'll ignore that his completion got better, yet he threw the ball more, & he pass the ball first & only scrambled when he had too cause Louisville O-line sucked & they had hardly no WR's. He almost had nothing & ran a Bobby Petrino offense like a pro. 

I'm curious. If "most people" on this board are such a despicable lot, do you care to tell us why you post here?

 

I'm going to venture a guess, OK? I am thinking that you have come to enlighten us with your abundance of football knowledge and insight. Am I close? If so, thanks. I'm not sure how we survived sans your bevy of wonderful information.

[BuffaloSol]

God forbid someone compare Jackson to RG III, because you think it's not fair to compare a black qb to another black qb. Seriously are we this fragile and obsessed with race that we can not make a comparison of two similar players.

[GunnerBill]

21 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

I feel the same way... most people on here haven't done any research on these QB's... they'll hide behind their posts & pretty much copy what someone else have said that they would agree with in a negative light. When you read they're reasoning for not liking Jackson... it almost sounds like that haven't watch but 2 of his bad games ? .... then they come away hating the prospect. These posters your about to encounter will ignore the fact that Jackson improved greatly in almost every aspect at the QB position! They'll ignore that his completion got better, yet he threw the ball more, & he pass the ball first & only scrambled when he had too cause Louisville O-line sucked & they had hardly no WR's. He almost had nothing & ran a Bobby Petrino offense like a pro.  This is why scouts like LJ... cause he's shown growth. Plus there's alot of growth left undeveloped. Imagine what he'll do when he gets drafted to a team a legit weapons... I can see him, KB & Zay Jones looking really good together. Those 2 are better then what he had at Louisville... but he didn't have them & still had eye popping games passing the ball. 

 

Mayfield & Rosen are my too favorite though. Just because their not tight & close to the vest... they're human ... & show it! I'd rather have Mayfield cause I believe he's a culture changer... that's some the Bills definitely needs. He can adapt McBeane vision & add his own twist... similar what Joel Embiid has done with the 76ers. You need that type of player in your locker room.

 

Go find the thread from yesterday by Bandit.  Plenty of people here watch an awful lot of these Quarterbacks and know what they are looking at.  

[CamboBill]

47 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Welcome, Bill.   I appreciate you being able to stay dedicated after all of these years, its gotta be difficult to strike up a conversation on the Bills in a Cambodian sports bar!  I think that in terms of LJ, you'll find that many folks are going to cite accuracy (I don' think his completion % was ever above 60%), or the fact that he is too skinny.  I'm sure there's a pinch or racism in there too for some folks.  Rosen's detractors seem to be all based on his personality.  I think a lot of folks are tired of having politics injected into their football (me included), but I'd be fine with Rosen as our QB as long as his play backed up his mouth.  

Thanks. I like Rosen too but fear he might be the next Sam Bradford.

 

My rankings:

 

1) D'arnold  floor: Andy Dalton  Ceiling: Eli Manning

2) Rosen flloor: Sam Bradford  Ceiling: Phil Rivers

3) Jackson: Floor: Vince Young  Ceiling:  Steve Young

4) Allen  Floor: B Bortles  Ceiling:  Ben Rothlusberger

5) Mayfield. Floor: Case Keenum  Ceiling: D Brees

 

But I could live with any.

Edited March 28, 2018 by CamboBill

[ALLEN1QB]

Great to hear we have Bills fans way across the pond Bill wear that Buffalo proud!!!  

[BuffaloSol]

17 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

Thanks. I like Rosen too but fear he might be the next Sam Bradford.

 

My rankings:

 

1) D'arnold  floor: Andy Dalton  Ceiling: Eli Manning

2) Rosen flloor: Sam Bradford  Ceiling: Phil Rivers

3) Jackson: Floor: Vince Young  Ceiling:  Steve Young

4) Allen  Floor: B Bortles  Ceiling:  Ben Rothlusberger

5) Mayfield. Floor: Case Keenum  Ceiling: D Brees

 

But I could live with any.

It's a shame you had to bring up race so early instead of just comparing players to other NFL QBS. I don't agree on the rankings I'd go D'arnold, Mayfield, Rosen, Allen, Jackson; but I do agree on most of the ceiling/floor comparisons except Allen's floor(not sure who) and ceiling(Aaron Rodgers) and Jackson's floor(RG3)

Edited March 28, 2018 by BuffaloSol

[Rob's House]

OP should stick to lurking. It plays better to his strengths.

 

And I'd prefer to draft Mike White over LamaRG3.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Welcome aboard.

 

As you may have noticed being a lurker 

 

Many who deem themselves "experts" cry the loudest when confronted with facts that prove them wrong.   Expected retorts - moron, idiot, clueless, you offer nothing to this board, did I say idiot?    Oh and Mrags should stay. 

 

Me, I'm just a fan trying to bring color to conversations.   
 

You didn't happen to work for Air America in the 80's did you? 

[CamboBill]

48 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I will parry your questions about racial and religious attitudes as deftly as my nom de plume Inigo Montoya swats aside the rapier thrusts of the Six Fingered Man, Count Rugen, as those questions can blow up a message board....

 

As to your other points, I agree that trading up to #2 will be too expensive, and I hope they keep their powder dry and pounce on any of the top QBs who might drop past the #3 spot.  I've become a Josh Allen guy.

Yes. Sometimes  to parry is  often a wise decision when it comes to mentions of race, religion, or politics .  Sometimes you will get intelligent discussion out of it ... most times not .. but still worth the effort IMHO.   We agree on not overpaying for #2

 

46 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Welcome 

what took you to Cambodia? Do you get back to New York? 

Thank you.  .Business opportunity took me to Southeast Asia .... but mostly in Singapore and Jakarta.  Increasing overheads due to properly boom and office and facility rentals tripling over one to two years caused me to decide I was pedaling too hard for too few miles so I retired early to here.  Despite it's tragic history and bad image it is becoming an increasingly popular target for early retirees due to low cost of living, easy visa setup, and friendly locals.  Petty crime and cleanliness are unfortunately other matters entirely. Fortunately the beaches and scenery of other nearby countries are only a 1 to 3 hour flight away, when I need a break. Not been back to New York in 10 years ... most family passed on and friends scattered now across USA.  I hope to get back end of this year or early next to visit sister.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, CamboBill said:

Yes. Sometimes  to parry is  often a wise decision when it comes to mentions of race, religion, or politics .  Sometimes you will get intelligent discussion out of it ... most times not .. but still worth the effort IMHO.   We agree on not overpaying for #2

 

 

You apparently haven't been to the PPP.   

 

   

[CamboBill]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

And some despise Mayfield because they hate little people!

 Well I just compared D'Arnold to Dalton ..... maybe that means I am anti-redhead or "ginger" as folks from the UK call them.

 

I will need to contemplate this matter,  after watching some Baker Mayfield video with Randy Neumann's "Short people" playing in the background.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 minutes ago, CamboBill said:

 Well I just compared D'Arnold to Dalton ..... maybe that means I am anti-redhead or "ginger" as folks from the UK call them.

 

I will need to contemplate this matter,  after watching some Baker Mayfield video with Randy Neumann's "Short people" playing in the background.

don't let LeGOATski goat you into an argument 

[xxxxxxxx]

There are alot of Bills fans outside of Buffalo and the United States who feel that Tyrod was unfairly treated by the coaching staff and a portion of the local fan base and that the situation was not disimilar to what happened to Warren moon. The fact that the US president wants to build a wall around the country does not help this situation, especially from the perspective of fans abroad. Some local fans will deny that race has anything to do with it and try to silence any one who dares to raise the question of race, as well, largely because they don't identify as being racist, and are either unaware or refuse to ackknowledge the subtler ways that racism works. They don't speak for the entire local or international fan base, however. They are just the loudest and most sensitive. And I say sensitive because even the suggestion of racism makes them fly off the handle. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by MURPHD6