Popular Post thebandit27 Posted March 27, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) A few folks asked me to post my evaluations of this year’s QB class, so I’ve put this thread together. What follows are not comprehensive breakdowns of every player, but rather individual games that I feel highlight what each player can do well and needs to improve upon entering the NFL. Note that while I only present one game’s worth of notes on each player, I watched every throw of every video I could get my hands on, and did so multiple times for each guy. My goal here is to show examples of how I formed my opinion on these players. Josh Rosen Game selected: @ USC Reason: Full complement of throws against team with NFL-level defensive talent Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:42 small but important play, as he shows the willingness to take the easy money on 3rd down 2:06 more easy money; these plays get you into 2nd and 3rd downs with manageable to-go yards 2:14 what more do you want from a downfield throw? 2:45 shows great drive off the back foot at the top of his drop 3:12 wish we could’ve seen more of this play, because that’s a Brady-like move to get in position and get the ball snapped to take advantage of defense being disorganized 4:10 what a job to stay on the balls of his feet under pressure, keep composure, and hit the open man for a huge 3rd-down conversion 5:40 this play is everything…fast process through the blast action, nice zip on the ball, perfect placement for RAC 5:53 I’d like to see him be more consistent with his release point—multiple batted balls on plays where extra pressure comes 6:56 nobody better question the kid’s toughness; he hangs in and makes a great throw on this play 8:46 it’s worth pointing out that on the quick lateral throws, he manages to get the ball out lightning-quick without rushing his delivery; that’s a unique trait that other QBs don’t seem to have 9:42 he doesn’t do this often, but Rosen will trust himself too much at times and throw this kind of ball into traffic 12:15 shame on that WR; that’s a beauty of a back-shoulder throw that should’ve been had Summary: Rosen has everything you want in a franchise QB: plenty of arm, pinpoint accuracy, intelligence, and toughness. He does get too many of his intermediate throws batted down for my liking, and I worry that he gets spooked by phantom pressure when teams are able to get to him early. Overall, he’s my QB1 and should easily be a top-5 pick that can start immediately. Baker Mayfield Game selected: Georgia (Rose Bowl – neutral site) Reason: Facing 2nd-ranked pass defense in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 right away you see the ability to throw accurately on the run 0:35 this here is RPO to perfection; freeze the 2nd level, recognize the breakdown, and deliver a perfect ball 1:28 great accuracy to all levels of the field 1:51 great execution on the zone read; enough athletic ability to hurt teams when he runs 2:04 it’s not a great throw, but watch the lower-body mechanics in the pocket. Keeps a nice wide base, stays high on the balls of his feet, constant balance established; this is why he’s so accurate. 2:46 this is one of my issues with Baker: he holds the ball too long. There’s a wide open target on the sideline, and he needs that ball to come out. NFL defenses don’t give you all day. 4:43 he has to know when to bail on the play and throw the ball away; can’t take negative plays like that. I could also pick on him for pulling his eyes down and not seeing the open receiver on the sideline here. 5:36 he did a really nice job at the start of this play to look off the swing route and then climb the pocket...only to bail out the back of a decent pocket and take a sack. 6:50 what a throw…fearless, and it shows that he knows when to push the ball down the field. 7:07 for all the guff I give him about holding the ball, he can really make things happen when he scrambles. Buys time, rolls left, and makes a brilliant throw across his body beating double coverage for a game-tying TD. Summary: Mayfield gets knocked for his size, but for a guy that small, he almost never has the ball batted down. His throwing mechanics are excellent, and he’s very accurate. My biggest issue is that he needs to get comfortable working the pocket better. He won’t be able to hold the ball for 3+ seconds like he did routinely in college, and he can’t afford to bail clean pockets in the NFL, where the defenders are too athletic to allow him to roam free untouched. The arm talent and athleticism, combined with the attitude and desire to win, make him an easy top-10 pick for me. Sam Darnold Game selected: vs. Ohio State Reason: Facing 11th-ranked pass defense in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 ball comes out quickly, with a ton of zip, and right on the money…that’s an NFL throw right there 0:21 can buy time with his athleticism, and keeps his eyes downfield. His throws on the run are generally great. 0:31 can we all stop and acknowledge this play? The ball is out in less than 2 seconds, and is placed absolutely perfectly about 25 yards downfield. 1:15 beautiful touch to drop the ball into the space in the zone 1:25 the worst thing with Darnold: turnovers. This is just a bad read and a bad decision. 2:06 again the pocket mechanics: feet active, finding safety, and delivering quickly and accurately 2:32 even when he has to wait for things to develop, he still executes quickly and efficiently 2:38 fumbles…way too many of them 2:54 the next two throws are Sam Darnold in a nutshell: a spectacular ball that’s out fast to a safe spot where his WR can make a big play, followed by an I’m-way-better-than-you ball into triple coverage that should’ve been picked. 4:14 underrated throw here: rolls away from the pressure and completes across his body to pick up a big first down 5:17 he’s absolutely money on these boundary touch throws 5:31 he’s absolutely trash on protecting the football in the pocket 6:31 climbs to safety and hits another downfield throw Summary: There’s so much to like with Darnold: athleticism, accuracy, arm strength, and everything happens fast with him. If it weren’t for his turnovers and ball security, he’d probably be my QB1…if it weren’t for turnovers and ball security. He’s got to get that under control. As it is, he’s good enough to be a top-5 pick. Josh Allen Game selected: Central Michigan (Potato Bowl – neutral site) Reason: Facing 8th-ranked pass defense in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 here’s where I see Big Ben comparisons: Ostman has him wrapped up, but Allen is big and strong enough to make a throw anyway (side note: he should’ve just taken the sack) 0:14 and 0:23 are back-to-back plays that look ordinary, but are important for two reasons: (1) they show that Allen’s boundary accuracy isn’t nearly as erratic as some say, and (2) they show that when Allen’s footwork is right (nice wide base, good drive at top of dropback, even stride), his accuracy and placement are fine 0:34 great play fake, and the best throw I’ve seen on film from any of these QBs. Just sit silently and watch the replay…gorgeous. 1:08 good enough mobility to extend the play, and has the arm to fire a bullet on the run 1:42 is this an erratic throw, or a sloppy route by the WR? Can’t tell, but Conway looks just a hair slow coming out of his break there 1:55 one thing nobody will knock is this kid’s deep ball; best in the class 2:40 these next 4 plays show you my biggest issue with Josh Allen: stop trying to make things happen when they’re obviously not there. Throw the ball away and live for the next play…half the reason this kid gets beat up and throws dangerous passes is that he’s constantly trying to do too much. 3:42 takes the contact and still throws a rope to the furthest part of the field 4:00 this here’s a misfire that’s footwork related; that’s gotta get cleaned up 4:06 bad Josh shows up again; stop trying to do too much, Joshua 4:32 watch this throw, and then tell me the kid isn’t accurate; that’s an NFL throw all day 4:59 another issue that he needs to clean up: he occasions to lack a bit of touch on boundary throws 6:01 he has no business being able to make this throw; that’s obscenely good Summary: I keep watching Allen over and over trying to find the “major accuracy issues” that others say he’s got. I’m sorry, but I don’t see them. I see a guy that needs to refine his touch throws to the boundary and clean up some occasional footwork issues, but mostly I see a guy that tries to make something out of nothing too often. Sometimes that’ll present itself via him trusting his arm too much and throwing into danger, but a lot of gunslinger-type QBs do that. I have him as my QB4, and I’ve given him a top-10 grade; when he’s right, he’s the best QB in the class. Lamar Jackson Game selected: @ Florida State Reason: Facing 6th-ranked pass defense in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 boy can that ball come out quick 0:24 makes very good zone-reads on back-to-back plays 1:11 my least favorite thing about Jackson is his relative lack of pocket mechanics; his footwork breaks down under pressure (and perceived pressure) and he loses accuracy 1:20 to folks that believe he won’t be a dangerous dual threat in the NFL: that’s Derwin James he just blew by on that play 1:41 nice patience, and a full-field read to find the TE over the middle 3:04 again, the breakdown in pocket mechanics forces an inaccurate throw 4:22 the hidden benefit of having a guy like Jackson is that defenses have to commit players to cover the run threat, which leaves easy swing passes like this one open 4:33 nice job keeping eyes downfield 4:53 gotta get rid of the football 5:23 there’s the bad footwork again, forcing a miss to the boundary, but… 5:30 this throw is a dime; nice touch 6:55 this play makes me think he can be deadly on RPOs in the pros; how do you maintain coverage responsibilities AND commit enough guys to stop Jackson on the ground? 7:59 this is the kind of chain-moving money throw that he’ll have to make on Sundays…apparently he can make it 8:34 this ball is just a smidgeon underthrown, but still a nice touch on a deep throw that could’ve been a game-winner. 8:56 these next 3 plays are a portfolio unto themselves as to why this kid can be special. It’s crunch time, and he (1) shows a willingness to take what the defense gives him, (2) shows the ability to extend the play and keep his eyes downfield to hit a critical first down, and (3) throws a beautiful deep ball that, again, should’ve been a game-winner. Summary: he’s not a perfect prospect, but Jackson has the goods. He’s ultra-athletic, and can keep defenses honest, which will really help a team’s running game. I also like that he’s got the take-what-they-give-you mentality, and if he’s willing to use it he can have early success in the NFL. I think he should’ve gone back to school to clean up his pocket mechanics and become a more nuanced passer, but right now he’s got a first-round grade from me. Mason Rudolph Game selected: vs. Virginia Tech Reason: Best pass defense that Oklahoma State faced in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 Rudolph’s accuracy is generally very good; placement is solid. Spoiler alert: he struggles with boundary throws…placement and velocity wane dramatically. 0:29 he knows when to take off with the ball and when to get down 0:50 stands tall in the pocket and delivers a strike into coverage; again, notice the accuracy on interior passes 1:12 here’s a great example of the good and the bad. The good? Keeps on the balls of his feet, climbs to safety, and finds the open man. The bad? The loss of velocity and placement on the boundary throw. You’ll see this continue on 3 of the next 5 throws as well. 2:02 some of the best deep-ball accuracy in the class. 2:37 willingness to hold the ball when necessary; nice job of coming across to find the open man for a key 3rd down conversion 3:28 another poor boundary throw 3:40 I like the throw, but this ball needs to come out sooner. Yes, I know, it’s a TD, but he’s not going to get 4 seconds to throw that ball in the NFL 4:52 this shows me that he is indeed able to speed up his snap-to-release process Summary: I have Rudolph rated as a Day 2 QB; a guy that has the potential to be a starter in the NFL. I don’t like that he doesn’t take any snaps under center, and I don’t see a player that can hit the full spectrum of NFL throws with enough consistency to be someone’s long-term answer at the position. He is, however, a good enough passer to win games if given enough talent around him, and he does show good ability to make pre-snap reads. Edited March 27, 2018 by thebandit27 16 34
NewEra Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Nice. Thanks for posting this and look forward to the rest of them. Rosen is my current number 1 but i think I’d take Darnold over him just because I like what he brings to a team locker room a bit more.
Mat68 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Ive come away from watching those guys in a similar vain. I am curious as to why you picked the OSU game for Darnold. For the other players you picked more favorable film.
JohnC Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Great job Bandito, If the Bills can't make a reasonable deal to get one of their preferred qbs I would be more than happy with taking Jackson with our first pick at the 12th spot. It may take him a little longer to refine his game but he has attributes that adds a unique dimension to the offense. No question I would prefer Rosen, Darnold, Allen or Mayfield but Jackson is not only a good option but an option over time who can turn out to be the most dynamic qb of the bunch. 1
Manther Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 I am commenting on this thread before reading any of it! I am exciting to read thru and participate. Thanks Bandit!! Back to the top and looking forward to this!
JohnC Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Just now, Mat68 said: Ive come away from watching those guys in a similar vain. I am curious as to why you picked the OSU game for Darnold. For the other players you picked more favorable film. YOLO's influence.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Josh Rosen Summary: Rosen has everything you want in a franchise QB: plenty of arm, pinpoint accuracy, intelligence, and toughness. He does get too many of his intermediate throws batted down for my liking, and I worry that he gets spooked by phantom pressure when teams are able to get to him early. Overall, he’s my QB1 and should easily be a top-5 pick that can start immediately. Baker Mayfield Summary: Mayfield gets knocked for his size, but for a guy that small, he almost never has the ball batted down. His throwing mechanics are excellent, and he’s very accurate. My biggest issue is that he needs to get comfortable working the pocket better. He won’t be able to hold the ball for 3+ seconds like he did routinely in college, and he can’t afford to bail clean pockets in the NFL, where the defenders are too athletic to allow him to roam free untouched. The arm talent and athleticism, combined with the attitude and desire to win, make him an easy top-10 pick for me. Sam Darnold Summary: There’s so much to like with Darnold: athleticism, accuracy, arm strength, and everything happens fast with him. If it weren’t for his turnovers and ball security, he’d probably be my QB1…if it weren’t for turnovers and ball security. He’s got to get that under control. As it is, he’s good enough to be a top-5 pick. Josh Allen Summary: I keep watching Allen over and over trying to find the “major accuracy issues” that others say he’s got. I’m sorry, but I don’t see them. I see a guy that needs to refine his touch throws to the boundary and clean up some occasional footwork issues, but mostly I see a guy that tries to make something out of nothing too often. Sometimes that’ll present itself via him trusting his arm too much and throwing into danger, but a lot of gunslinger-type QBs do that. I have him as my QB4, and I’ve given him a top-10 grade; when he’s right, he’s the best QB in the class. Lamar Jackson Game selected: @ Florida State Reason: Facing 6th-ranked pass defense in FBS (in terms of YPA) Notes (timestamp correlates to beginning of play): 0:00 boy can that ball come out quick 0:24 makes very good zone-reads on back-to-back plays 1:11 my least favorite thing about Jackson is his relative lack of pocket mechanics; his footwork breaks down under pressure (and perceived pressure) and he loses accuracy 1:20 to folks that believe he won’t be a dangerous dual threat in the NFL: that’s Derwin James he just blew by on that play 1:41 nice patience, and a full-field read to find the TE over the middle 3:04 again, the breakdown in pocket mechanics forces an inaccurate throw 4:22 the hidden benefit of having a guy like Jackson is that defenses have to commit players to cover the run threat, which leaves easy swing passes like this one open 4:33 nice job keeping eyes downfield 4:53 gotta get rid of the football 5:23 there’s the bad footwork again, forcing a miss to the boundary, but… 5:30 this throw is a dime; nice touch 6:55 this play makes me think he can be deadly on RPOs in the pros; how do you maintain coverage responsibilities AND commit enough guys to stop Jackson on the ground? 7:59 this is the kind of chain-moving money throw that he’ll have to make on Sundays…apparently he can make it 8:34 this ball is just a smidgeon underthrown, but still a nice touch on a deep throw that could’ve been a game-winner. 8:56 these next 3 plays are a portfolio unto themselves as to why this kid can be special. It’s crunch time, and he (1) shows a willingness to take what the defense gives him, (2) shows the ability to extend the play and keep his eyes downfield to hit a critical first down, and (3) throws a beautiful deep ball that, again, should’ve been a game-winner. Summary: he’s not a perfect prospect, but Jackson has the goods. He’s ultra-athletic, and can keep defenses honest, which will really help a team’s running game. I also like that he’s got the take-what-they-give-you mentality, and if he’s willing to use it he can have early success in the NFL. I think he should’ve gone back to school to clean up his pocket mechanics and become a more nuanced passer, but right now he’s got a first-round grade from me. Mason Rudolph Summary: I have Rudolph rated as a Day 2 QB; a guy that has the potential to be a starter in the NFL. I don’t like that he doesn’t take any snaps under center, and I don’t see a player that can hit the full spectrum of NFL throws with enough consistency to be someone’s long-term answer at the position. He is, however, a good enough passer to win games if given enough talent around him, and he does show good ability to make pre-snap reads. Bandit, you are the man!! Great job!! Edited March 28, 2018 by the skycap
thebandit27 Posted March 27, 2018 Author Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Mat68 said: Ive come away from watching those guys in a similar vain. I am curious as to why you picked the OSU game for Darnold. For the other players you picked more favorable film. I tried to pick the toughest pass defense they faced (in terms of YPA allowed) for each guy. Seemed like as level a playing field as any 1
Solomon Grundy Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Ive come away from watching those guys in a similar vain. I am curious as to why you picked the OSU game for Darnold. For the other players you picked more favorable film. It looks, to me, like he picked games against teams with excellent pass defenses.
PIZ Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Remind me bandit. Are you a former scout or s draft junkie? Just wondering. Awesome write up.
eball Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Thanks! Really appreciate this. Beats the crap out of yet another "mock draft" or posts trying to read the tea leaves of GM-speak. 8 minutes ago, the skycap said: Bandit, you are the man!! Great job!! Come on man, you've been around here long enough to know not to quote the entire post! Edited March 27, 2018 by eball 2
Solomon Grundy Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, eball said: Thanks! Really appreciate this. Beats the crap out of yet another "mock draft" or posts trying to read the tea leaves of GM-speak. Come on man, you've been around here long enough to know not to quote the entire post! Freudian slip 1
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Thanks bandit At the end of the day.....yeah i have 3 qbs ahead of Lamar Jackson The difference is we dont pick in the top 5 of this draft.....we pick 12th....so why is it a bad thing to pick up a very talented QB and then focus on Linebackers Wide Receivers New blood at running back All of which are very needed.....and we have all those day one/day 2 picks. If Bean has done his homework we could completely restock this team.
Augie Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, eball said: Thanks! Really appreciate this. Beats the crap out of yet another "mock draft" or posts trying to read the tea leaves of GM-speak. Come on man, you've been around here long enough to know not to quote the entire post! That almost makes ME want to do it! 1
PIZ Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Surprisingly to me, it looks like we should try to trade up to get Josh Allen. Didn't think I'd say that. He appears to have everything McBeane wants in a QB. 1
Blokestradamus Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 I really hope that the community is fully appreciative of Bandit's contributions to this board. I know from experience just how much work goes into the kind of process that he undertakes. While we don't always agree on everything, you know that I respect the hell out of you. 6
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