Making the case for Lamar Jackson

[Gugny]

Just now, 502Buffs said:

Your argument this entire time has been if a quarterback scores poorly on the wonderlic, or has a southern slang in interviews, he can't play quarterback. The hypocrisy is mind numbing.

 

My observation has been that since 2000 - every single QB who has scored under 16 has not been a successful NFL starter.  100% of them over the past 18 seasons.  Lamar Jackson scored a 13.  A !@#$ing 13.

 

I've never said anything about a "southern slang," with regard to predicting the level of one's success as an NFL QB.

 

We don't put words in others' mouths around here.

[502Buffs]

15 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Greg Gabriel "Louisville does not have a very complex offense" 

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/02/22/greg-gabriel-the-evaluation-of-lamar-jackson-as-a-qb-prospect-is-ongoing/ac0uv9s/

 

i don't agree that it isn't a complex offense, I do agree, however with his point that Petrino hasn't exactly bred successful NFL QB's in the past.

[racketmaster]

26 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.

I think we should be careful about declaring who ran the most complicated offense in college. It's possible that Jackson was tasked with running the most complicated offense but we really don't know unless we were privy to meeting with the coaches of all the top qbs as well as the qbs themselves to determine what was asked of them and how well they knew the offense. For example, two quarterbacks might both be asked to run a WCO but because of their abilities, they may be operating within the offense differently. Were they permitted to audible? Could they and did they set protections? How much verbage is involved with their play calls? Allen ran the same offense that Carson Wentz ran in college but what was asked of them and how they operated in that offense might have been different. 

 

I see this a lot in posts "Jackson ran a complicated offense" and "The Erhardt/Perkins offense is the same that Tom Brady runs in New England".  And while this may be true, we don't actually know what this means. Did Petrino really challenge Jackson or was the offense simplified?  I don't know the answers to that question. I think it is hard for any fan to be able to seriously tell if Jackson's knowledge and responsibilities exceeded the other quarterbacks in this draft class. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by racketmaster

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just a friendly reminder:

 

13

[CommonCents]

4 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

 

i don't agree that it isn't a complex offense, I do agree, however with his point that Petrino hasn't exactly bred successful NFL QB's in the past.

I'm willing to listen why it is a complex offense. What makes you say that? Do you know the reads and concepts they use? Do you know who did the play calling? Was it simplified for Lamar? Did Jackson have checks or any ability to audible out of a play? 

 

Everyone types down Erkardt-Perkins like that means anything. Greg Gabriel is in the know, teach me otherwise. I'm listening.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Commonsense

[502Buffs]

6 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

My observation has been that since 2000 - every single QB who has scored under 16 has not been a successful NFL starter.  100% of them over the past 18 seasons.  Lamar Jackson scored a 13.  A !@#$ing 13.

 

I've never said anything about a "southern slang," with regard to predicting the level of one's success as an NFL QB.

 

We don't put words in others' mouths around here.

I've been following the website for years. Just recently decided to start posting. I saw someone, thought it was you, criticize his interviewing skills. Eluding to your multiple "dumber than a box of rocks" accusations. I don't think it's fair to base that off of the wonderlic alone. It's a f'ing standardized test that has nothing to do with football. Out of all the 'unsuccessful' QB's in the past who scored lower than a 16, I guarantee you none of them have the tools or athleticism Lamar has. All I'm saying.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

I've been following the website for years. Just recently decided to start posting. I saw someone, thought it was you, criticize his interviewing skills. Eluding to your multiple "dumber than a box of rocks" accusations. I don't think it's fair to base that off of the wonderlic alone. It's a f'ing standardized test that has nothing to do with football. Out of all the 'unsuccessful' QB's in the past who scored lower than a 16, I guarantee you none of them have the tools or athleticism Lamar has. All I'm saying.

 

he scored a 13. I'd say that's a fair indicator of being dumber than a box of rocks.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by joesixpack

[502Buffs]

1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

he scored a 13. I's day that's a fair indicator of being dumber than a box of rocks.

 

You've typed the number 13 at least 13 times in this post. It isn't lost on me I promise, but neither you or Gugny have been able to prove why that means he's a total idiot. When others have cited hall of fame QB's (who don't have the athletic tools of Lamar) who scored poorly on the test, all you say is THAT DOESN'T MATTER. Then you insult THEIR intelligence. Why? Who hurt you?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, 502Buffs said:

You've typed the number 13 at least 13 times in this post. It isn't lost on me I promise, but neither you or Gugny have been able to prove why that means he's a total idiot. When others have cited hall of fame QB's (who don't have the athletic tools of Lamar) who scored poorly on the test, all you say is THAT DOESN'T MATTER. Then you insult THEIR intelligence. Why? Who hurt you?

 

Because, every QB that people have cited played 30+ years ago.

Maybe you haven't noticed or you just don't understand the game is fundamentally different now than then. QBs need to process quickly. 13 ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

 

 

[502Buffs]

10 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I'm willing to listen why it is a complex offense. What makes you say that? Do you know the reads and concepts they use? Do you know who did the playing? Did Jackson have checks or any ability to audible out of a play? 

 

Everyone types down Erkardt-Perkins like that means anything. Greg Gabriel is in the know, teach me otherwise. I'm listening.

https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/5116/how-louisville-coach-bobby-petrino-maximizes-lamar-jackson-s-running-ability

 

I will say I've never seen Jackson audible or check out of a play, but I think that's because there are so many reads in each play already. There is no doubt whoever is coaching him will need to tailor their offense around his strengths, like any QB in any offense, as Petrino has done.

2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Because, every QB that people have cited played 30+ years ago.

Maybe you haven't noticed or you just don't understand the game is fundamentally different now than then. QBs need to process quickly. 13 ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

 

 

So a 13 means he can't process reads quickly? Have you ever seen the kid play? 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.

 

But he is (kind of) a QB.  Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.

He is definately a QB

 

And one with huge upside.......he is a great plan B

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Because, every QB that people have cited played 30+ years ago.

Maybe you haven't noticed or you just don't understand the game is fundamentally different now than then. QBs need to process quickly. 13 ain't gonna cut it, sorry.

 

 

You keep latching onto that number like your woobiee

 

Ill stick with his on field production.....which is considerable

[HappyDays]

36 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Greg Gabriel "Louisville does not have a very complex offense" 

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2018/02/22/greg-gabriel-the-evaluation-of-lamar-jackson-as-a-qb-prospect-is-ongoing/ac0uv9s/

 

Gabriel also said Peterman was going to be the next Kirk Cousins. His opinion on QBs is as meaningless as anyone.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, 502Buffs said:

So a 13 means he can't process reads quickly? Have you ever seen the kid play? 

That's exactly what I mean.

 

If the guy knows he'll be tested IN ADVANCE and can't manage to do the work to score well on it (or is too stupid to realize he can) then I want him nowhere near this team.

 

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, 502Buffs said:

https://blogs.usafootball.com/blog/5116/how-louisville-coach-bobby-petrino-maximizes-lamar-jackson-s-running-ability

 

I will say I've never seen Jackson audible or check out of a play, but I think that's because there are so many reads in each play already. There is no doubt whoever is coaching him will need to tailor their offense around his strengths, like any QB in any offense, as Petrino has done.

He is super athletic no one is disputing that, a link to how Petrino catered his play calling towards Lamar's legs doesn't exactly convince me that he can process defenses and carve them up with his arm. 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Commonsense said:

He is super athletic no one is disputing that, a link to how Petrino catered his play calling towards Lamar's legs doesn't exactly convince me that he can process defenses and carve them up with his arm. 

 

^ this guy gets it.

 

 

[Gugny]

Just now, joesixpack said:

^ this guy gets it.

 

 

 

Well ... I mean ... it's common sense.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You keep latching onto that number like your woobiee

 

Ill stick with his on field production.....which is considerable

Because, Lord Twatwaffle, it's germane. Intelligence in a QB is important in the NFL. Not so much when you're playing northwestern central kentucky state.

 

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Gabriel also said Peterman was going to be the next Kirk Cousins. His opinion on QBs is as meaningless as anyone.

Oh and Mike Mayock liked Blaine Gabbert so he is a rock, right? These guys know the game and concepts better than us fans so I will defer to them on the complexity of play calls until I see evidence that says otherwise.

[502Buffs]

Just now, joesixpack said:

That's exactly what I mean.

 

If the guy knows he'll be tested IN ADVANCE and can't manage to do the work to score well on it (or is too stupid to realize he can) then I want him nowhere near this team.

 

I think he's been too busy trying to prove he's an NFL QB instead of a receiver (a position he's never played) by doing things like working on throwing mechanics, taking snaps under center, etc. to worry about some stupid math test GM's may or may not care about. I get why the score is concerning to you, but for the love of God, find another criticism to make because you've beaten this one into the ground.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Because, Lord Twatwaffle, it's germane. Intelligence in a QB is important in the NFL. Not so much when you're playing northwestern central kentucky state.

 

Like I said