4merper4mer Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: You are right. The conservative approach has been wildly successful. Even this year it's allowed the Jets to move to 3. Conservative vs. aggressive is not really pertinent in this particular branch of the discussion. It is more like nonsensical vs. everything else.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Conservative vs. aggressive is not really pertinent in this particular branch of the discussion. It is more like nonsensical vs. everything else. Funny. Pretty sure those of us who actually want a real QB view it the same way. 1
4merper4mer Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: Funny. Pretty sure those of us who actually want a real QB view it the same way. Please describe a three way trade with buf/Cle/nyg that makes sense for all three teams. Consolation prize awarded if it makes sense for two of the three. Hint: Gir er done Beane is not a complete description.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Plenty of avenues have been previously discussed. There is no trade with the Giants if they want a QB. If the Browns want one of Chubb or Barkley there's no trade with them either. Please sit on it and spin.
JinxedBill1 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Jets didn't offer enough for #1? If this staff thinks the talent is here, why have put we called about #1? I bet this staff would love to have Darnold.
BadLandsMeanie Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Hint: Gir er done Beane is not a complete description.
mjt328 Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 Unfortunately, I think the Bills are "stuck" in a bad place right now. And nobody is going to walk away happy. I truly believe Beane had his eyes on 1-2 specific guys, and was hoping to work his way into position on Draft Day. The Cordy Glenn trade was the last step before making his final move. All it would have taken was the Browns or Giants to take a non-QB, and then they could pull the trigger with the Colts for #3. Boom. We have our guy. Point blank, the Jets gave up more than we could (or would be willing to) offer. They went way over the draft value chart, and the Colts lost nothing by moving down 3 spots. Beane can put on his poker-face and pretend this wasn't a disappointment for him. He can pretend we are happy in our current draft position, and play it cool. But the Jets ruined our plan. A plan that was 11 months in the making. Now, I'm not trying to say Beane was stupid. If he only really likes 2 quarterbacks, I can understand him being reluctant to "overpay" for the #3 pick, when the draft is still 6 weeks away. That could have been an utter disaster on Draft Day, if someone figured out how to trade ahead of us. The wisest plan was to have a tentative deal in place with the Colts, but wait until the pick was on the clock. The problem is... even being wise could ultimately leave us empty-handed on Draft Day. The Browns may have flirted with the idea of taking Saquan Barkley at #1 and taking their QB at #4. But the Jets move has really forced their hand. And things are becoming pretty clear that Sam Darnold is the big favorite to be the first pick. No matter what chatter is coming from New York, I can't see a 3-13 team with a 37-year-old QB passing on that position when drafting in the Top 2. The Giants are too smart to believe they can win a Super Bowl with this roster. And they are too smart to telegraph their thinking to the media. There is a reason they weren't willing to trade this pick to the Jets. It has Josh Rosen written all over it. This leaves the Jets with their choice between Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen. And herein lies the problem. Beane can play it calm and cool all he wants. But he KNOWS we can't walk away with NOTHING at quarterback. Ultimately, the Bills may be forced to trade away a ton of picks, just to get the 4th, 5th or 6th QB off the board. Not the guy they really want. Not the guy they truly believe in. Just the left-overs. Either that, or we REACH really bad to get a 2nd-3rd tier guy like Mason Rudolph.
Tyrod's friend Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 22 hours ago, thebandit27 said: I've been saying for weeks that Allen will absolutely be in the conversation at 1 overall. You don't trade the 65th pick if you're planning to draft a guy that's ready to start day 1, so that means it's either Darnold or Allen. I think you trade the 65th pick in the draft for a QB if you want to win, Year 1, of a restarted program. The #1 in the draft then is about the rest of your life. The rest of the steps the Browns made (Landry, Hyde) indicate they fully anticipate winning their division in the first year or competing to do so. Their actions tell the story.
starrymessenger Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 20 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Watch him end up being the best qb to come out of this draft I would have no problem getting behind Lamar at #12. And I can see how Beane might like him. Although he is not the same player as Cam Newton, they are similar inasmuch as both are capable of making plays with their legs and both enter the league with questions surrounding their ability to execute consistently in the passing game. And I would'nt be surprised either if Lamar developed as a pocket passer in a way similar to what Cam has been able to do - not in the same class as the league's elite passers but good enuf to keep defences honest - so a clear notch above what Tyrod brings to the table. But if the reports of the Bills having made a strong play for the #3 spot are true, and I believe them, it suggests to me that Lamar is not their # 1 QB prospect because they would not have needed to move up that high to pick him. So probably the preferred target was one of the top 4, probably Darnold or Rosen but possibly also Allen or Mayfield (with Allen ahead of Mayfield imo). Question then becomes whether the Bills think whoever is leftover after the QB feeding frenzy is over justifies an early pick (at 12) while still allowing for team building and filling holes in the roster. Of course there remains the possibility of a trade up on draft day because only then do you know how things actually shake out for the Bills and other teams. 1
Chuck Wagon Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 If 4 QBs go in the top 5, I don't think there's any way Lamar Jackson is on the board at 12. Either Miami takes him at 11 or someone (Arizona?) moves up and gets him above us. Not getting a prime QB this year is a failure, bottom line. But with our draft picks, we can still add a lot of talent, let McCarron have a chance and draft a prospect better than Peterman in round ~3. It's not a complete loss. That only happens if we feel pressured to overdraft a guy like Rudolph in round 1 with other elite talent still on the board.
4merper4mer Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, JinxedBill1 said: Jets didn't offer enough for #1? If this staff thinks the talent is here, why have put we called about #1? I bet this staff would love to have Darnold. Well the Jets would have started by offering pick 6 whereas we can only start with 12. If the Browns are targeting someone who is certain to be gone by say pick 8, what do you think we had to offer?
thenorthremembers Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: If 4 QBs go in the top 5, I don't think there's any way Lamar Jackson is on the board at 12. Either Miami takes him at 11 or someone (Arizona?) moves up and gets him above us. Not getting a prime QB this year is a failure, bottom line. But with our draft picks, we can still add a lot of talent, let McCarron have a chance and draft a prospect better than Peterman in round ~3. It's not a complete loss. That only happens if we feel pressured to overdraft a guy like Rudolph in round 1 with other elite talent still on the board. I cant see Denver taking a QB with Barkley still on the board if that ends up being the case.
Boatdrinks Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said: Well the Jets would have started by offering pick 6 whereas we can only start with 12. If the Browns are targeting someone who is certain to be gone by say pick 8, what do you think we had to offer? Hey, stop making sense. Don't you know Beane can just try harder and throw in an extra pick next year or something. ? Presto! Deal done.
4merper4mer Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Hey, stop making sense. Don't you know Beane can just try harder and throw in an extra pick next year or something. ? Presto! Deal done. What part of Git er done does that dork not understand? 1
dave mcbride Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, mjt328 said: Unfortunately, I think the Bills are "stuck" in a bad place right now. And nobody is going to walk away happy. I truly believe Beane had his eyes on 1-2 specific guys, and was hoping to work his way into position on Draft Day. The Cordy Glenn trade was the last step before making his final move. All it would have taken was the Browns or Giants to take a non-QB, and then they could pull the trigger with the Colts for #3. Boom. We have our guy. Point blank, the Jets gave up more than we could (or would be willing to) offer. They went way over the draft value chart, and the Colts lost nothing by moving down 3 spots. Beane can put on his poker-face and pretend this wasn't a disappointment for him. He can pretend we are happy in our current draft position, and play it cool. But the Jets ruined our plan. A plan that was 11 months in the making. Now, I'm not trying to say Beane was stupid. If he only really likes 2 quarterbacks, I can understand him being reluctant to "overpay" for the #3 pick, when the draft is still 6 weeks away. That could have been an utter disaster on Draft Day, if someone figured out how to trade ahead of us. The wisest plan was to have a tentative deal in place with the Colts, but wait until the pick was on the clock. The problem is... even being wise could ultimately leave us empty-handed on Draft Day. The Browns may have flirted with the idea of taking Saquan Barkley at #1 and taking their QB at #4. But the Jets move has really forced their hand. And things are becoming pretty clear that Sam Darnold is the big favorite to be the first pick. No matter what chatter is coming from New York, I can't see a 3-13 team with a 37-year-old QB passing on that position when drafting in the Top 2. The Giants are too smart to believe they can win a Super Bowl with this roster. And they are too smart to telegraph their thinking to the media. There is a reason they weren't willing to trade this pick to the Jets. It has Josh Rosen written all over it. This leaves the Jets with their choice between Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen. And herein lies the problem. Beane can play it calm and cool all he wants. But he KNOWS we can't walk away with NOTHING at quarterback. Ultimately, the Bills may be forced to trade away a ton of picks, just to get the 4th, 5th or 6th QB off the board. Not the guy they really want. Not the guy they truly believe in. Just the left-overs. Either that, or we REACH really bad to get a 2nd-3rd tier guy like Mason Rudolph. Re: the bolded part above: here's the problem for the Bills with making a trade with the Colts at that time. It was not clear at all at the time -- and remains unclear now -- that the Giants weren't going to take a QB. Now it seems more likely that they WILL take a QB, and it even seems quite possible that that Darnold and Allen (who I have a hunch are the Bills' two top choices) will both be off the board by #3. 2
Boatdrinks Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Re: the bolded part above: here's the problem for the Bills with making a trade with the Colts at that time. It was not clear at all at the time -- and remains unclear now -- that the Giants weren't going to take a QB. Now it seems more likely that they WILL take a QB, and it even seems quite possible that that Darnold and Allen (who I have a hunch are the Bills' two top choices) will both be off the board by #3. It was likely a factor to Beane, but I'm sure he'd had conversations with Gettelman. Now, he's not going to divulge his pick to Beane, but I'm sure he was able to get a read on things. I just don't think much of this was in Beanes control once the Jets were willing to pay what the Colts demanded. It's just a no risk proposition for the Colts, pretty much risk free. QBs are going to come off the board fast at the top. Their targeted player or even a guy they wouldn't expect could fall to them at 6. If that happens, their phone could be ringing with another sweetheart deal to move down if a QB is still there. It's really a win for the Colts either way, as they could choose between a player they know is there at 6 or a lucrative trade possibility. That wouldn't happen sitting at 12. And they won't know who they might be passing on until the draft is underway. There just was no reason to take any Bills offfer due to the unknowns.
What a Tuel Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Quote Please describe a three way trade with buf/Cle/nyg that makes sense for all three teams. Consolation prize awarded if it makes sense for two of the three. Hint: Gir er done Beane is not a complete description. You guys keep talking in circles. It wasn't impossible for us to trade to 7 or 8 and the Colts still get their guy. If Beane intended to do that then he failed because he was too slow, not because it was impossible like you are all implying. As for a 3 way trade: Bills pick #1 Browns pick #2 Giants pick #4 Browns end up with Bills 12th, and 22nd and next years 1st for moving back 1 spot, and losing #4. Giants end up with Bills 2018 2nd and 3rd rounders for moving back 2 spots. Bills get #1 for giving up 12, 22, 2018 2nd and 3rd, and 2019 1st Browns still get their QB, but they net 3 extra 1st round picks. Giants still get their guy because the Bills, Browns, Jets are taking QBs and net an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick this year. Bills get their choice of QB. What do I win? Edited March 27, 2018 by What a Tuel
mannc Posted March 27, 2018 Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Hey, stop making sense. Don't you know Beane can just try harder and throw in an extra pick next year or something. ? Presto! Deal done. And of course he could have just performed a Vulcan mind-meld on Gettleman to force the Giants to surrender the second pick.
Reed83HOF Posted March 27, 2018 Author Posted March 27, 2018 3 hours ago, dave mcbride said: Re: the bolded part above: here's the problem for the Bills with making a trade with the Colts at that time. It was not clear at all at the time -- and remains unclear now -- that the Giants weren't going to take a QB. Now it seems more likely that they WILL take a QB, and it even seems quite possible that that Darnold and Allen (who I have a hunch are the Bills' two top choices) will both be off the board by #3. Beane doesn't want to get stuck, as he said yesterday. the context was a little different as I think it was about doing a multiple team trade up from 7 to top 5, but I believe the same thought process would apply. He also spoke about having a conviction for the guy, not many guys that they would want. 1
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