Dr. Who Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Don't see it happening, but the best thing for us would be for Mayfield or Rosen to drop to twelve. I can barely see it possible for Mayfield.
smuvtalker Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: He is fragile and has lots of Injury issues. His team mates really don’t like him or hang with him hence how can he lead a NFL team. There are many reports about that. He rubs people the wrong way with his demeanor and the way he comes across. He is not a team player, never once did I mention politics. He does not need the NFL to earn a living he set financially. He is not a good leader by example. some good intel about him Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student. I heard multiple people that either knew him personally or met him say that Peyton Manning is one of the biggest a-holes they've ever known. I'd take him and his a-holistic, douchebag personality 1000 times out of a 1000. 2 1
bigK14094 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, buffalobloodfloridahome said: Rudolph is a system qb with hugely inflated numbers from a system that rarely anyone becomes successful in the NFL with. He has an ok arm decent accuracy nice touch on his deep balls, yet he is way less accomplished than Rosen who had a crappy team around him and shows incredible accuracy and vision as well as pocket presence and is an intellectual. I personally wouldn't draft Rudolph in the first round he is second or third rd talent probably a career backup. You may be correct that he is a system QB, but, that does not preclude him being an NFL starter and a good one. Maybe not first year, but, given a little time, can't say that isn't possible.
buffaloaggie Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 Mason Rudolph was rated as the weakest arm of the top six QBs by CBS. Yet, if you read about one of his receivers, James Washington had the most receptions of 20 yards downfield of any player in the NCAA. So, I guess we can throw out CBS as a credible player rating source. I'm in on Rudolph, and the Bills can stand pat to draft him, keeping their other picks. Drafting James Washington wouldn't be a bad idea either.
bigK14094 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 42 minutes ago, horned dogs said: Jackson is a better prospect than Rudolph. So there is that too! Jackson is TT Version 2.0 1 1
17 Josh Allen Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 mock draft Rosen drops to cards at 15 lots of red flags boys. I’m telling you this guy is a cancer.
BillsFan17 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 1 minute ago, buffaloaggie said: Mason Rudolph was rated as the weakest arm of the top six QBs by CBS. Yet, if you read about one of his receivers, James Washington had the most receptions of 20 yards downfield of any player in the NCAA. So, I guess we can throw out CBS as a credible player rating source. I'm in on Rudolph, and the Bills can stand pat to draft him, keeping their other picks. Drafting James Washington wouldn't be a bad idea either. People also said Watson had a weak arm cause he couldn't ramp up the RPMs at the combine. We all saw how well that translated to the NFL. I'll take anticipation and accuracy all day over a rocket arm. 3
fridge Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: mock draft Rosen drops to cards at 15 lots of red flags boys. I’m telling you this guy is a cancer. You haven’t listed any red flags. You just mentioned he is a bad teammate without any sources. Please list his red flags. It seems political. 1
17 Josh Allen Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) When there smoke there is fire. This Dude Rosen will drop, he is the problem child of this 1st round. Might drop all the way down to the Pats. Edited March 26, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074
snamsnoops Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: If The Bills are staying at 12 and there choice is between Rudolph or Rosen, I predict the Bills will select Rudolph. I’m praying the Jets take Rosen. Rosen does not fit the Bills or this towns culture, nor does he seem to fit the Process that Coach McD has instituted on this team. I also think that Rosen will be the biggest bust at QB in this draft. I have him rated outside the top 8 and in my opinion he will be that QB that drops in this draft. The TV networks will keep showing him in the green room with all the game day pundits on TV savaging him and us TV viewers with stories of why he’s dropping. To me he has the most red flags and problems. Also I will have to question weather I want to support him as a Bills QB if he were to get drafted by the Bills. My opinion is the Bills are targeting Josh Allen and Mason Rudolph. If they trade up to the 6th pick with the colts I can see them getting Josh Allen. This would have to be done on draft day after the Broncos pick. So the way I see this playing out is Darnold to the Browns, Chubb to NYG, Baker Mayfield to the Jets then Barkley to the Browns. Then you have Den, who knows what will happen there. Then at 6 if we trade up with the Colts we get to select the number 1 QB on the Bills draft board Josh Allen. The other way this works out is the Bills trade up to 4. Then trade 4 to the NYG to get to the 2nd pick and take Josh Allen at #2. In my opinion Allen is the target for Bean with Rudolph as his fall back position for QB at 12. As far as Rosen this guy is going to be the biggest bust of the draft QB class. The more I listen to him talk and see what his team mates had to say about him the less I like him. He is skinny and injury prone. If anyone has watched the Movie Draft day Rosen is this drafts Bo Callahan or a real life Johnny Manziel. Predict you are wrong... If Rosen is gone by our pick and Mayfield is still on board, I predict they take him. I also predict the bills have a higher draft grade on both Rosen and Mayfield. Rudolph is like a 2nd-3rd round talent! Jmo Edited March 26, 2018 by snamsnoops 1
17 Josh Allen Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, fridge said: You haven’t listed any red flags. You just mentioned he is a bad teammate without any sources. Please list his red flags. It seems political. Stop bring politics into this never once in this thread did I ever mention politics. Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student.
SouthNYfan Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: When there smoke there fire. This Dude Rosen will drop, he is the problem child of this 1st round. Might drop all the way down to the Pats. If Rosen drops, and we take Rudolph over him, our entire front office should be fired and checked for mental health problems. 1
CuddyDark Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: I don't agree with this. They'll take the best QB that is available. 1 hour ago, horned dogs said: Not that far down they don't, won't. So instead of all talent, no fit...then McD all fit, no talent. Hmmm I believe they see team building and chemistry as more important that talent alone. If they had Allen at 80 and Rudolph at 75 I put money on them taking Rudolph. 1
buffaloaggie Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said: People also said Watson had a weak arm cause he couldn't ramp up the RPMs at the combine. We all saw how well that translated to the NFL. I'll take anticipation and accuracy all day over a rocket arm. The last point you make should eliminate Josh Allen. Rosen has too many red flags. I made this point months ago, a QB from SoCal with a non-fiery disposition equals Rob Johnson V2.0
Royale with Cheese Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: Stop bring politics into this never once in this thread did I ever mention politics. Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student. Here's Rudolph's weaknesses So is this wrong but Rosen's right? WEAKNESSES Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefitted from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter. DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3 SOURCES TELL US "If you spoke with ten different scouts you would get at least four different opinions about him. I've just seen too many of those system quarterbacks struggle to make it in the league so I'm hesitant to buy in. He has gotten better this year." -- NFC team regional scout NFL COMPARISON Christian Ponder BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. 1
BillsFan4 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: He is fragile and has lots of Injury issues. His team mates really don’t like him or hang with him hence how can he lead a NFL team. There are many reports about that. He rubs people the wrong way with his demeanor and the way he comes across. He is not a team player, never once did I mention politics. He does not need the NFL to earn a living he set financially. He is not a good leader by example. some good intel about him Durability is a concern. Carries slight build and has had injury issues dating back to high school. Carries ball low in pocket with slight upward pre-throw hitch. Too casual in pocket set-up. Decision making and post-snap reads are inconsistent. Refuses easy throws at times. Arm talent and strength are below average. May need to make greater effort to drive field and seam throws. Poor career deep ball completion rate. Excess air under ball allows challenges. Lacks gun to challenge safeties with rip throws over the top. Needs better anticipation. Poor mobility. Struggles to elude early pressure. Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move. Too much hero ball. Extends plays and takes unnecessary chances rather than throwing it away. Scouts question his passion for football and whether he will be a willing student. This sounds like a guy that should be drafted late 1st round or early 2nd round to me. This guy will drop like a rock in this draft you can count on it. Ok, if that's why you don't like him, then why did you say that you would question whether you'd support him as the Bills QB? If it's only because you are worried about if he is fragile or a team leader? BTW Here's what his actual teammates had to say on that whole narrative (to save you time, its BS) - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000918506/article/exucla-teammate-calls-josh-rosen-onceinamillennium-qb https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-time-to-bury-josh-rosen-character-slander-once-and-for-all/ http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/josh_rosen_and_baker_mayfield.html I like how you only posted the weakness part of Josh Rosen's NFL draft profile. But you left out all the good stuff. Find me one QB in any draft that didn't have weaknesses in their draft profile. Go back and read what they've said about other top QBs in the NFL before they were drafted. I can do the same with Mason Rudolph... Heres his negatives from his scouting report- Sounds like a WB projected to go day 2, to me. WEAKNESSES Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefitted from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter. DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3 SOURCES TELL US "If you spoke with ten different scouts you would get at least four different opinions about him. I've just seen too many of those system quarterbacks struggle to make it in the league so I'm hesitant [/B]to buy in. He has gotten better this year." -- NFC team regional scout NFL COMPARISON Christian Ponder [/B]BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Sounds to me like a system QB that was surrounded by some excellent talent, who doesn't have a great shot at being a true NFL franchise QB... There's a reason why Rudolph isn't being talked about among the top QBs in this draft class.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 16 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: I believe they see team building and chemistry as more important that talent alone. If they had Allen at 80 and Rudolph at 75 I put money on them taking Rudolph. Fair enough!
buffalobloodfloridahome Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 31 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: You may be correct that he is a system QB, but, that does not preclude him being an NFL starter and a good one. Maybe not first year, but, given a little time, can't say that isn't possible. Anything is possible, I didn't think Deshaun Watson was going to come out of the gate on fire either.
17 Josh Allen Posted March 26, 2018 Author Posted March 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Ok, if that's why you don't like him, then why did you say that you would question whether you'd support him as the Bills QB? If it's only because you are worried about if he is fragile or a team leader? BTW Here's what his actual teammates had to say on that whole narrative (to save you time, its BS) - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000918506/article/exucla-teammate-calls-josh-rosen-onceinamillennium-qb https://www.ndtscouting.com/ledyard-time-to-bury-josh-rosen-character-slander-once-and-for-all/ http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/josh_rosen_and_baker_mayfield.html I like how you only posted the weakness part of Josh Rosen's NFL draft profile. But you left out all the good stuff. Find me one QB in any draft that didn't have weaknesses in their draft profile. Go back and read what they've said about other top QBs in the NFL before they were drafted. I can do the same with Mason Rudolph... Heres his negatives from his scouting report- Sounds like a WB projected to go day 2, to me. WEAKNESSES Over-strides at times. Rarely drives lower body through the throw causing ball to sail and float. May not generate enough velocity to beat ball-hawking corners who strangle passing windows. Field-side outs will be a challenge. Needs throws to stay on schedule. Needs to throw with better timing and placement on comeback and outs. Defaults to off-platform throws when he has time to step and deliver. Ball placement and decision making can run askew when forced to scramble from pocket. Ball will come out wobbly at times. Inexperienced as rollout passer. Benefitted from ball-winning targets downfield. Wasn't asked to get through many progressions in the offense. Has had ball security issues as a starter. DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 2-3 SOURCES TELL US "If you spoke with ten different scouts you would get at least four different opinions about him. I've just seen too many of those system quarterbacks struggle to make it in the league so I'm hesitant [/B]to buy in. He has gotten better this year." -- NFC team regional scout NFL COMPARISON Christian Ponder [/B]BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Sounds to me like a system QB that was surrounded by some excellent talent, who doesn't have a great shot at being a true NFL franchise QB... There's a reason why Rudolph isn't being talked about among the top QBs in this draft class. To me Rudolph is more reliable and a better leader then Rosen. His stats prove it and so does his non Injury related problems and also his winning record. But for me it’s the eye test, when I watch these two play in live action. Rudolph looks better and performs better then Rosen. Then you take into the account Rosen’s attitude and off the field stuff and Injury stuff and not relating or being condescending to his coaches. So that’s why I rate him outside top 6 to 8 QB’s. So that’s my scouting report.
BillsFan4 Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 22 minutes ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: To me Rudolph is more reliable and a better leader then Rosen. His stats prove it and so does his non Injury related problems and also his winning record. But for me it’s the eye test, when I watch these two play in live action. Rudolph looks better and performs better then Rosen. Then you take into the account Rosen’s attitude and off the field stuff and Injury stuff and not relating or being condescending to his coaches. So that’s why I rate him outside top 6 to 8 QB’s. So that’s my scouting report. Fair enough. I have a different opinion on him and Rosen. But I am intrigued by Rudolph. I's prefer to land one of the top 4 QBs but I'd give very strong consideration to him and Jackson if that's not possible. IMO I think Rosen is clearly a better QB prospect than Rudolph. But what I question is - is Rosen that much better than Rudolph + all the picks we could surround him with if we didn't trade up? I still don't understand why you'd say that you would question if you'd support Rosen as the Bills QB if it's not about politics? If its truly just about your concerns over his injuries and his on field performance I don't see why you'd have to question whether or not you'd support him/The Bills if they drafted him. But that's your business, not mine so... all I know is that hat I will support whatever QB the Bills draft and give him a fair chance, even if it's not the one I want. 2
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