17 Josh Allen Posted April 2, 2018 Author Posted April 2, 2018 You all better get used to the fact that We’re drafting Rudolph, bank on it 1
26CornerBlitz Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: You all better get used to the fact that We’re drafting Rudolph, bank on it Beane is calling GMs in the top 5 so he can get Rudolph. Edited April 2, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1
HiddenInLight Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 I predict that you are so wrong that you pretend this thread never existed after the draft, and that Rosen turns out to be the best QB in this draft. 1
Dr. Who Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 18 hours ago, gobills1212 said: Figured out how to embed videos did we? I guess there is no longer a need to YouTube 'Mason Rudolph' anymore ... Sorry, I don't get the comment. I didn't embed any videos.
gobills1212 Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 32 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: Sorry, I don't get the comment. I didn't embed any videos. not sure why you were tagged lol. carry on!
Thurman#1 Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 15 hours ago, Tyrod's friend said: I agree, to a degree. Winning is a team game. But my post was a reaction to someone saying that Rosen had won. On the face of it, Rosen played for squads that were talented. That's just not refutable; you don't get to be nationally ranked 13th, 16th and 25th ranked team and be devoid of talent. They were ranked 13th before Josh Rosen had thrown a pass. I've already admitted that I am not a UCLA expert and thanks for reminding they had a porous defense. It seems to me if you are looking for a QB that is a "winner", then you are taking Lamar Jackson. Not Josh Rosen. Cheers. It isn't just refutable, it's wrong on the face of it. That defense was absolutely horrible, well beyond porous. And pre-season rankings are guesses. I kind of agree with you somewhat on the "winner" thing. It's a team sport. QBs aren't winners. Teams are. Lamar Jackson isn't a winner based on his performance at QB. He was on a winning team. There is a huge difference. What you want is a guy who plays QB very well. It's that simple.
NewEra Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: It isn't just refutable, it's wrong on the face of it. That defense was absolutely horrible, well beyond porous. And pre-season rankings are guesses. I kind of agree with you somewhat on the "winner" thing. It's a team sport. QBs aren't winners. Teams are. Lamar Jackson isn't a winner based on his performance at QB. He was on a winning team. There is a huge difference. What you want is a guy who plays QB very well. It's that simple. Agreed. UCLA’s defense was easily one of the worst in the nation last season. His WRs dropped several perfect dimes. The talent around him only hurt his stock and lost them games
Tyrod's friend Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: It isn't just refutable, it's wrong on the face of it. That defense was absolutely horrible, well beyond porous. And pre-season rankings are guesses. I kind of agree with you somewhat on the "winner" thing. It's a team sport. QBs aren't winners. Teams are. Lamar Jackson isn't a winner based on his performance at QB. He was on a winning team. There is a huge difference. What you want is a guy who plays QB very well. It's that simple. I fail to see what in God's good name the status of the defense has to the QB's ability. There are a legion of teams with horrible defenses and an offense that rose above. I'm not going to say Baker Mayfield had to deal with as bad a defense as UCLA, but Oklahoma gave up 389 points. Maybe if you aren't throwing more interceptions and less touchdowns, maybe the defense isn't working so hard. i don't know, but I do know that QBs overcome a bad defense. Yeah, winning is a team thing especially in football. Some players rise above it. I can think of a team where the offense basically lost it's LT, started a rookie RT at LT, had it's two starting WRs shipped out and replaced them - by some accounts - with literally the worst wide receivers in football, what some people would say a very, very flawed OC and was playing with a running back that was starting to show some wear at 29. Yet the team got to the playoffs. Sure as #hit wasn't because of the defense on that team. Y'all were so willing to get him out of town you practically bought Tyrod a ticket. Happens all the time. Most players can't lift their team and sometimes the ones that do, you don't notice them til they are gone. And Lamar is on a winning team? BULL. Almost every single analyst says that Lamar is the best player on the field, that he is the difference maker. It's almost unbelievable to me that you can say that - did you look at their records while he was there??? And from what I saw of analyst reports, his WR group was worse than what Rosen had and I don't see any Louisville offensive lineman coming to play in the NFL next year (or for that matter, while he was in Kentucky).I've seen enough guys that play a great game of QB in my life. And I've seen players like DeShaun Watson. Players like Tom Brady. Brady wasn't the best QB when he got here, not by a long shot. Anyone want to nominate Chad Pennington to the HOF? He got his teams to 9 or more wins four times. And no, I'm not putting Tyrod into their group. But it's not like baseball or tennis or basketball. It's not just individual skill. I want a player that wins and lifts his teammates. There is no way a guy that has been on a team ranked as high as 7th, no way you can tell me that he was on a talentless team or that he lifted his teammates up. Football is a team game, and teams need leaders. It's the difference between drafting a QB and drafting a Franchise. Clearly we are on different sides of this one. Cheers and a good day. Alex PS Baker Mayfield for President. Edited April 3, 2018 by Tyrod's friend
Cripple Creek Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 On 3/26/2018 at 9:24 AM, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Prediction: you will never be a professional scout for an NFL team. Hi Dick!
Thurman#1 Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tyrod's friend said: I fail to see what in God's good name the status of the defense has to the QB's ability. There are a legion of teams with horrible defenses and an offense that rose above. I'm not going to say Baker Mayfield had to deal with as bad a defense as UCLA, but Oklahoma gave up 389 points. Maybe if you aren't throwing more interceptions and less touchdowns, maybe the defense isn't working so hard. i don't know, but I do know that QBs overcome a bad defense. Yeah, winning is a team thing especially in football. Some players rise above it. I can think of a team where the offense basically lost it's LT, started a rookie RT at LT, had it's two starting WRs shipped out and replaced them - by some accounts - with literally the worst wide receivers in football, what some people would say a very, very flawed OC and was playing with a running back that was starting to show some wear at 29. Yet the team got to the playoffs. Sure as #hit wasn't because of the defense on that team. Y'all were so willing to get him out of town you practically bought Tyrod a ticket. Happens all the time. Most players can't lift their team and sometimes the ones that do, you don't notice them til they are gone. And Lamar is on a winning team? BULL. Almost every single analyst says that Lamar is the best player on the field, that he is the difference maker. It's almost unbelievable to me that you can say that - did you look at their records while he was there??? And from what I saw of analyst reports, his WR group was worse than what Rosen had and I don't see any Louisville offensive lineman coming to play in the NFL next year (or for that matter, while he was in Kentucky).I've seen enough guys that play a great game of QB in my life. And I've seen players like DeShaun Watson. Players like Tom Brady. Brady wasn't the best QB when he got here, not by a long shot. Anyone want to nominate Chad Pennington to the HOF? He got his teams to 9 or more wins four times. And no, I'm not putting Tyrod into their group. But it's not like baseball or tennis or basketball. It's not just individual skill. I want a player that wins and lifts his teammates. There is no way a guy that has been on a team ranked as high as 7th, no way you can tell me that he was on a talentless team or that he lifted his teammates up. Football is a team game, and teams need leaders. It's the difference between drafting a QB and drafting a Franchise. Clearly we are on different sides of this one. Cheers and a good day. Alex PS Baker Mayfield for President. Seriously? You don't understand how a horrible defense puts a ton more pressure on the offense by giving it consistently worse field position and forcing them to have to score more to win? Seriously? I don't quite know what to say to that. Lemme try this ... Having a great defense makes life much easier for an offense. Having a terrible defense makes things a ton more difficult. A ton more difficult. Oklahoma had a bad defense. Yeah. Oklahoma allowed 394.9 yards per game. That's bad. But UCLA allowed almost 100 yard per game more, 483.7. And yeah, Oklahoma allowed 389 points. That's bad. But UCLA allowed almost 100 more points, 476. Oklahoma's defense was a bit above average, well behind the really good defenses, but not awful. UCLA's was absolutely awful. Yes, Lamar is a very good QB. But you're flat out WRONG if you think that he's responsible for their wins and losses. He had a share of it. So did the rest of the guys on the field. Yeah, good QBs lift a team. So does a good RB, a good LT, anyone good lifts the level of the team and the guys around him. QBs more so because of the importance of their position. But it's a simple, obvious, self-evident truth that it's teams that win. Not one player. Not in football. Archie Manning was a terrific QB. He absolutely lifted the level of the players around him. But they sucked so bad that there was no way to lift them enough. Put Joe Montana on that Saints team and they still lose most of their games. It's a team game. Philip Rivers lifts the level of the players around him a ton. But he simply hasn't had good enough players around him to make any serious dent in the playoffs. It's a team game. And you can't say Rosen didn't lift his teammates. You can't say that unless you're in the huddle, unless you're one of the coaches calling the plays and watching practices. Most of the way that QBs lift teams is simply by playing extremely well. Which Rosen did and that game where they had the huge comeback is an example. Deny that he wasn't lifting his teammates in that game and you're only showing you're seeing what you want to see. Here's another possible indication that he lifted his teammates: UCLA played 13 games. With Rosen they played eleven games against Texas A&M, Hawaii, Memphis, Stanford, Colorado, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, USC and Cal. They averaged in those games 35.0 points per game. Without Rosen they played two games and scored 17 points both times. Against the mighty defenses of Utah and Kansas State. Care to guess what their two lowest-scoring games of the year were? And Rosen didn't lift that team? Come on, man. As for Mayfield, I'd rather have him as Secretary of War. I like Mayfield. Wouldn't mind him here either. Edited April 3, 2018 by Thurman#1
buffalobloodfloridahome Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 So many people have Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph as their late first round guys. They are considerably behind the top 4 guys and Rudolph is borderline second rd. So to say that the most refined passer in the draft will go behind a system QB that will have a huge learning curve coming into the NFL is blasphemy. 1
Tyrod's friend Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 42 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Seriously? You don't understand how a horrible defense puts a ton more pressure on the offense by giving it consistently worse field position and forcing them to have to score more to win? Seriously? I don't quite know what to say to that. Lemme try this ... Having a great defense makes life much easier for an offense. Having a terrible defense makes things a ton more difficult. A ton more difficult. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Defense doesn't prevent a QB from doing his job and I don't for a second mean to dispute your points. Field position is obviously important. The bad defense of Oklahoma didn't prevent Baker Mayfield from leading a proficient offense. Offenses overcome what a defense does and the other way around. That's what makes it a team game. The QB is responsible for his 10 though. In fact, if the situation wasn't perfect for Josh Rosen, his performance lagged - considerably. I think that's the very essence of leadership. Anybody can freaking pass the ball when the pocket is provided and the defense is doing it's job. Rosen was saddled with a bad defense. Boo-hoo. His WR group while poor should have been offset by Pro-level offensive lineman. His mobility within and effectiveness outside the pocket is pretty well established. As a frame of reference Mayfield's differential between touchdowns and interceptions was more than Rosen's total touchdowns. Look at it from a different perspective. Mayfield's team graduated Joe Mixon and two other offensive players after the 2016 season. Other than Orlando Brown, his offensive line has been destitute of skill players. Obviously the defense wasn't doing him any favors. Yet all Baker Mayfield did was to win nearly every award available; he was already playing at a high level and then he took a quantum leap forward. His team went from 5th ranked, to 3rd ranked. Regarding Josh Rosen? The team was ranked as high as 7th during his tenure. In two years it was ranked no less than 16th. It wasn't a talentless team and that is my point. I have been reacting to a post where someone was saying he felt sure that Rosen was a proven winner. I don't see it. Just because Josh Rosen can "drop it in a bucket" doesn't mean he elevated any team anywhere. It's quite, quite reasonable to say he had the opposite effect ESPECIALLY since there have been some words to that effect within that organization.You don't want to address how a nationally ranked team three times failed to finish very well, be my guest. Walk around with your head in the sand. And ... Josh Rosen's team scored more points when he was playing than when he was replaced ... is that the sum total of your point here? What am I to take from that, other than the obvious truism that the #1 QB was significantly better than the #2 QB - especially when the #1 is a prodigious passer? No. I think there is SUBSTANTIAL circumstantial evidence that Josh Rosen is anything BUT a leader; but certainly, there is no evidence to me that he is a winner. And that, at the start of it, was what I started this line of conversation. Finally, if you don't think that Lamar Jackson was the best player on the field for nearly all of his games, that he was the difference maker, then story over. You live in a fantasy world my friend. With all due effort to eliminate snark and offer respect, Cheers.
gobills1212 Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Hi Dick! I knew that was Richard!!!!!
Trogdor Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 I love that Rosen had to throw for almost 500 yards for a one point victory and people still don't understand how bad UCLA was. In the A&M game, the defense gave up close to 400yds rushing that put him in a huge deficit for both points and time. I mean he threw for 480yds in a loss to Stanford, but people will still doubt him.
Trogdor Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: He threw the ball 60 times against Stanford. There is literally nothing else to that offense but him. They were always in a hole and forced to throw a ton while other teams ran at will against them. It was a very bad team, but I don't think that had anything to do with him.
Klaista2k Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 Has this board completely turned on Rosen? Just a couple weeks he was the quarterback everyone wanted.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, Klaista2k said: Has this board completely turned on Rosen? Just a couple weeks he was the quarterback everyone wanted. ....imagine if McBeane stays put at #12 and BOTH Rosen AND Rudolph are there?......and the Commish reads "Rudolph" from the card?...uh oh..........
Klaista2k Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....imagine if McBeane stays put at #12 and BOTH Rosen AND Rudolph are there?......and the Commish reads "Rudolph" from the card?...uh oh.......... God I hope not. Rudolph sucks.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....imagine if McBeane stays put at #12 and BOTH Rosen AND Rudolph are there?......and the Commish reads "Rudolph" from the card?...uh oh.......... Uh oh for Beane!
Recommended Posts