USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Buddo said: That was a problem, top 10 picks and no decent QB to use them on. Makes you wonder how many other times the Bills have actually had top ten picks, in the first place, let alone the chance to use them on a decent QB. Some of the 'misses' are well documented, but most of those appear to be from outside of the top 10 picks anyway. Mike Williams year, Darieus year, Bruce Smith year are the realistic Top 5 years to land a QB. Smith year no 1st round QB's and Randall Cunningham was 1st QB selected. Kelly came a year later from USFL so that doesn't matter. Mike Williams 2002 where it would matter full rebuild, Would have to move up for Carr and Harrington or back for Patrick Ramsey. 2011 looks allot like this year, we had the 3rd pick. Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder were there. At the time we had Edwards and Fitz. Darieus was a good player but we should have tried to move up. Would we have failed with Ponder/Gabbert or getting CAM who knows but those are the few times we had choices. We have no realistic shot at top 5 positions, top 3 is where Darnold and Rosen are gone.
ColoradoBills Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: RG3 ended up a flame out- bust. I don't know if I'd hold him up as a reason the Bills don't have a QB. My point was the Bill's had a #3 pick in a weak QB draft class. They could of chose to roll that over with 2 1st's into the next. At the time no one knew that Peyton would get hurt and IND would be drafting 1st. Bill's could of had enough capital to move up to get Luck. I think most fans would of rolled with a then healthy RG3 over Fitz in 2012 too.
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: My point was the Bill's had a #3 pick in a weak QB draft class. They could of chose to roll that over with 2 1st's into the next. At the time no one knew that Peyton would get hurt and IND would be drafting 1st. Bill's could of had enough capital to move up to get Luck. I think most fans would of rolled with a then healthy RG3 over Fitz in 2012 too. The Colts were not going to trade the rights to draft the most highly touted QB prospect in over a decade. They just weren't. Even if Nix had made this move , he wasn't getting the chance to draft Andrew Luck. Edited March 25, 2018 by Boatdrinks
K-9 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, USABuffaloFan said: Mike Williams year, Darieus year, Bruce Smith year are the realistic Top 5 years to land a QB. Smith year no 1st round QB's and Randall Cunningham was 1st QB selected. Kelly came a year later from USFL so that doesn't matter. Mike Williams 2002 where it would matter full rebuild, Would have to move up for Carr and Harrington or back for Patrick Ramsey. 2011 looks allot like this year, we had the 3rd pick. Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder were there. At the time we had Edwards and Fitz. Darieus was a good player but we should have tried to move up. Would we have failed with Ponder/Gabbert or getting CAM who knows but those are the few times we had choices. We have no realistic shot at top 5 positions, top 3 is where Darnold and Rosen are gone. Per the bold text, I think it's safe to assume we would have failed with Ponder/Gabbert given their histories. Carolina was never going to move off that #1 pick to get Cam given the dearth of QBs in that draft. They needed a QB as bad as anybody. 1
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, What a Tuel said: The logic that we should not consider moving up to take a QB that the front office deems worthy of moving up for because they might make a mistake or miss is some god awful logic. The 7 out of 10 ratio is irrelevant because different people are making the picks. Will our front office be successful or not in picking the right QB is the question to ask. Will they decide to move up? Or will they stand pat and take the left overs? Either way, if they fail their chickens are coming home to roost. What isn't irrelevant is whether you can get to pick 2 or 4. I am betting the answer is no! 1
Lurker Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: You assume there is a QB they could have traded up for. Just who was it? Cam? Wasn't going to happen. Sometimes it's just bad luck. The Bills had #3 overall pick in 2011... too bad there weren't many good QBs. The Steelers had the #11 overall pick in '04 and Roethlisberger landed in their lap. There's a bit of good fortune involved here too. Most teams with good QBs didn't move up to draft them. Over a 50-year period, Ralph so-little valued the QB position that Kelly was essentially the only blue-chip prospect they ever drafted at the position. And that was when he lucked into having him drop to the Bills at #14. Somewhere over the span of those five decades there was an opportunity to work the draft to land a true franchise guy... Edited March 25, 2018 by Lurker
stuvian Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) We have not successfully drafted and developed our own QB since Joe Ferguson. Jim Kelly was USFL refugee that we did not develop Edited March 25, 2018 by stuvian
4merper4mer Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, What a Tuel said: What if Beane judges and identifies that Rosen (fill in any of the top 4) has that talent? Can he move up then? Why does it have to be move back for talent that everybody else missed? Actually he cannot move up because each of the top 3 teams will be selecting a QB. They control their picks and cannot be forced to trade by whiny whiners on a message board.
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: Tanking has no track record of working in the NFL. There are huge differences between football and hockey , which could be one reason. If tanking were so effective the Browns should have a mantle full of Lombardis by now. You would think eventually they get this right, lol!
BuffaloRush Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: It was for the 2012 draft. Bills would of had their own #10 and ATL #22. Instead the Bills went all in during the 2011 season with Fitz giving him that big extension. Your 100% correct, the biggest mistake Buddy and Chan made was hitching their wagon to Fitzpatrick. It cost Chan his job and in a way, probably did the same with Buddy. 1
ColoradoBills Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The Colts were not going to trade the rights to the most highly touted QB prospect in over a decade. They just weren't. Even if Nix had made this move , he wasn't getting the chance to draft Andrew Luck. I know that, but no one knew that back during the 2011 draft. No one would have known Peyton was going to be injured and the Colts would be picking #1 overall. I guess I'll end my point by saying maybe the Bills have a GM/HC looking toward the future as compared to past regimes only concerned with the current season.
Lurker Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, stuvian said: We have not successfully drafted and developed our own QB since Joe Ferguson. Jim Kelly was USFL refugee that we did not develop Give the Bills credit for drafting Kelly at #14 in 1983, even if he did not come here immediately. Fergy was a 3rd round pick (57th overall)... 1
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Augie said: ...sometimes I think we are not working on it hard enough! I get the frustration with previous regimes. I prefer the current FO to what we’ve had in the past. Time will tell if that is warranted or not. I only want to go all in on a guy they really believe in, not “pull an EJ” because we had to take a QB before we left. If you trust the group then you have to trust they can pick a good QB if warranted at 12 or 22. They have McCarron and Peterman as a Buffer.
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: Over a 50-year period, Ralph so-little valued the QB position that Kelly was essentially the only blue-chip prospect they ever drafted at the position. And that was when he lucked into having him drop to the Bills at #14. Somewhere over the span of those five decades there was an opportunity to work the draft to land a true franchise guy... It wasn't exactly luck, they had the 12 the pick too so they were getting Kelly or Marino at that point . Ferguson was a viable QB that led a few playoff teams. Throw out anything pre Kelly because it was just a different era of football. I wouldn't pin it on Ralph. Butler and Donahoe tried various ways to find a QB. They made some bad decisions and had some bad luck too. Why was Wilson OK with trading firsts for Johnson or Bledsoe. Both were paid highly by the Bills. It hasn't been one thing that has kept the Bills from getting a top QB. It's been many things.
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Well...no, primarily because Belichick is able to identify talent, which is why he can pick Tom Brady in the sixth round, which is why he doesn't NEED to reach for a top-10 pick to get a QB. If you can judge and develop talent, you don't need to move up. If you can't, moving up isn't going to fix that. Brady was luck. If Bledsoe hadn't been hurt Brady never would have gotten into a game to beat him out and most likely another QB drafted replacing him. Brady was very different back then, he grew to be the best QB in the league.
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, USABuffaloFan said: Brady was luck. If Bledsoe hadn't been hurt Brady never would have gotten into a game to beat him out and most likely another QB drafted replacing him. Brady was very different back then, he grew to be the best QB in the league. Brady has said he though he was going to be cut during that preseason. Injuries kept him around 5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: I know that, but no one knew that back during the 2011 draft. No one would have known Peyton was going to be injured and the Colts would be picking #1 overall. I guess I'll end my point by saying maybe the Bills have a GM/HC looking toward the future as compared to past regimes only concerned with the current season. Yes, they were clearly looking to the future last draft by passing on a QB and moving down. ( note : Beane was not here at the time) . It may or may not work out for them. They still aren't in a position to get a top QB yet.
K-9 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, stuvian said: We have not successfully drafted and developed our own QB since Joe Ferguson. Jim Kelly was USFL refugee that we did not develop I've long trumpeted that the best thing to happen to Kelly was learning under Mouse Davis for two seasons in the USFL and he had great tutelage under Schnellenberger as well in college. Qhile ahead of the curve when he entered the NFL, he wasn't a finished product, either. Marchibroda helped Kelly refine his game and to reach an elite level. 1 1
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: So you think he should have taken Dalton at 9? Is that your argument? Yikes Trade back but get QB 53 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Nix could of traded back. ATL gave up a boatload to picks for Julio Jones. He should of known Luck, RG3 were available the following year. We stuck with Fitz. To me, that's the difference from a forward looking organization and one that "lives in the moment". Who traded with ATL, the Redskins and moved up for RG3 and would of had Luck if Peyton didn't get hurt. It is the difference in evaluation of a QB
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 4 hours ago, BigDingus said: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/3/25/17129282/buffalo-bills-have-never-picked-a-quarterback-in-the-top-10-of-the-nfl-draft-three-teams "Since the NFL merger in 1970, the Bills are one of three teams to never have used a top-10 draft pick at the most important position in the game. Buffalo is joined on this list by the Minnesota Vikings and Baltimore Ravens." "Buffalo has only used a first-round draft pick on a quarterback three times, with one winding up as a Hall of Famer, and the other two leaving Buffalo after disappointing tenures. The last two times the Bills picked a quarterback in the first round, they missed badly on their quarterback of the future." And we've only been to the playoffs a handful of times outside of the Kelly era... We always try the "build a strong team around a game manager" approach, and we end up with the same results. We bring a new coach who has a renewed commitment to a "strong running game, combined with a hard-nosed defense" philosophy. Then we end up as a mediocre, middle of the road team, coach gets fired, new guy comes in & guts the previous regime's roster, and starts the cycle all over again. Hopefully Beane realizes this cycle needs to change & does what needs to be done. Technically the Ravens (moved from Cleveland) drafted a qb, Mike Phipps at #3 in 1970.
USABuffaloFan Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 33 minutes ago, K-9 said: Per the bold text, I think it's safe to assume we would have failed with Ponder/Gabbert given their histories. Carolina was never going to move off that #1 pick to get Cam given the dearth of QBs in that draft. They needed a QB as bad as anybody. We had players so maybe Ponder and Gabbert do better for us. They were 1st picks because to tools were there. Look what we turned Fitz into. More to work with in those guys. Doesn't matter but if your making the case after the fact not to do it then we shouldn't now. 34 minutes ago, Lurker said: Over a 50-year period, Ralph so-little valued the QB position that Kelly was essentially the only blue-chip prospect they ever drafted at the position. And that was when he lucked into having him drop to the Bills at #14. Somewhere over the span of those five decades there was an opportunity to work the draft to land a true franchise guy... They traded away a 1st for Rob Johnson and landed Flutie, a few years later when all that went away they traded a 1st to get Bledsoe, when that went away they draft Losman moving up in the 1st round, when that didn't work..............
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