Bag of Milk Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Augie said: Honestly, I hope you don’t take this wrong, but because his father is a surgeon does not mean he doesn’t have to work for the rest of his life or have any personal drive. He’s not a trust fund billionaire as far as we know. Daddy is a doctor. Johnny Football had his own oil money trust as I recall, but he was also an addict and a different person. My wife came from a “well off” family, and she may be the hardest working person I know. People seem to resent successful people sometimes. Peyton and Eli were not out of the ghetto. It’s about the individual and their personal drive. Sorry, mini-rant over. Excellent points! Thank you.
Augie Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bag of Milk said: Excellent points! Thank you. Ha! See the edit...even more important! How did I not lead with THAT? Edited March 25, 2018 by Augie 1
MrEpsYtown Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, Bag of Milk said: I loved Mike Mayock initially on NFL networks. Through the years, either his plate has gotten too full or he doesn't grind watching tape like he used too. He used to be more of an outlier, think outside the box guy. But now he gets wind of what scouts are thinking and magically changes his board up. He didn't do that before. 2
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: Darnold, Mayfield, or Jackson. These are the 3 QBs I believe we should target. The fact that Mayock likes Allen so much is a bit disconcerting. He was very vocal in his support of Wentz, fwiw
gobills1212 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 31 minutes ago, Augie said: Concussions with Rosen scare me more than a little. The film looks good, Rich Eisen interview was nice, but two concussions just last year? Injuries happen, but concussions are at another level for me. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Part if me thinks, eh, most guys go pro w at least 2 undiagnosed concussions. Maybe these were his and bc of who he is and his position they were taken more seriously. Par for the course. Then, part of me thinks maybe those are the only 2 he has had publicly and he has had more- just not as severe or undiagnosed. In the end, there isn't much that can be done and it is what it is. Maybe he will get more and it will be his undoing. Maybe he plays 15 years and never has another. Just seems like a crapshoot
Rico Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 42 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: That's not what was being discussed. As stated, it's just my least favorite part of Rosen's game, and a consideration. Drew Bledsoe was statuesque and the game passed him by. Josh Allen reminds me a helluva lot more of Bledsoe than Josh Rosen does. Another great big Gomer.
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Augie said: Ha! See the edit...even more important! How did I not lead with THAT? Maybe, but we are talking about football people making these decisions for their teams . Not outsiders like us. I don't think Rosen's background being brought up is due to any kind if resentment of " successful people" or anything. But to disregard it completely might be unwise. To play in the NFL you need to have a certain level of disregard for your own physical well being. Rosen might have less of this in him than others. The NFL relies on young guys putting money and fame above getting their bodies/ brains bashed around for a decade or so. That's just the reality of it. 6 minutes ago, Rico said: Josh Allen reminds me a helluva lot more of Bledsoe than Josh Rosen does. Another great big Gomer. Yep, I'd agree. Rosen seems pretty intelligent, but he's not very mobile. I wouldn't want Allen in the top 5 ( IF the Bills can maneuver into that range)
MrEpsYtown Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 I see Rosen as a "get the ball out quick" guy. He is likely going to take sacks, especially behind our line. My hope is that he is smart enough to read coverages and to know where to go with the football pre snap. Out of all the top guys, he will be the least creative in terms of improvising. I don't think improvising is going to be a requirement in the E-P system. I've had enough improv quarterbacking for a lifetime. I'd prefer the guy who hangs in the pocket and throws that wide open dig that we've been missing the last few years. 1
Augie Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Maybe, but we are talking about football people making these decisions for their teams . Not outsiders like us. I don't think Rosen's background being brought up is due to any kind if resentment of " successful people" or anything. But to disregard it completely might be unwise. To play in the NFL you need to have a certain level of disregard for your own physical well being. Rosen might have less of this in him than others. The NFL relies on young guys putting money and fame above getting their bodies/ brains bashed around for a decade or so. That's just the reality of it. More than any position, I want a smart guy at QB. Smart guys often come from smart families. Smart families are often more successful. I don’t care where a guy comes from if he can read the defense and make all the throws. I want a winner. I think fans often resent the family success, but they don’t have access to the person. Teams don’t care. Peyton and Eli have taken their beatings. Who is this guy and what makes him tick. Teams decide with more knowledge than message board dudes. Regardless, these guys have played football their entire lives. They have ALL been injured. My MAIN point is that concussions are above and beyond broken bones and torn ACL’s. You don’t re-break your leg because though broke it last year. Concussions are different and 2 last year for Rosen concerns me.
Boatdrinks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Augie said: More than any position, I want a smart guy at QB. Smart guys often come from smart families. Smart families are often more successful. I don’t care where a guy comes from if he can read the defense and make all the throws. I want a winner. I think fans often resent the family success, but they don’t have access to the person. Teams don’t care. Peyton and Eli have taken their beatings. Who is this guy and what makes him tick. Teams decide with more knowledge than message board dudes. Regardless, these guys have played football their entire lives. They have ALL been injured. My MAIN point is that concussions are above and beyond broken bones and torn ACL’s. You don’t re-break your leg because though broke it last year. Concussions are different and 2 last year for Rosen concerns me. Interesting take. I don't know why fans would care about a the financial status of a players family, success or their background. They just want to win games. If Bills Gates had a son that can play QB at a high level, great sign him up. Teams, however might care. It depends on as you say " what makes him tick". They are closer to the situation than all of us and have their impressions. They might be concerned if a less mobile QB has had concussions. They may also be concerned that the player may be more likely to leave the game early than another player would. This phenomenon has emerged in recent years. In that regard, the concussions ( and the family background) would concern me, yes. Edited March 25, 2018 by Boatdrinks
Augie Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 30 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Interesting take. I don't know why fans would care about a the financial status of a players family, success or their background. They just want to win games. If Bills Gates had a son that can play QB at a high level, great sign him up. Teams, however might care. It depends on as you say " what makes him tick". They are closer to the situation than all of us and have their impressions. They might be concerned if a less mobile QB has had concussions. They may also be concerned that the player may be more likely to leave the game early than another player would. This phenomenon has emerged in recent years. In that regard, the concussions ( and the family background) would concern me, yes. Some fans seriously care - they resent wealthy people. “These dudes make so much.....” Rosen isn’t rich, his parents are to some extent. . As a banker I was shocked to see some doctors tax returns and realize I made more than they did. (Pick your specialty carefully.) Yeah, this started in response to one of the “he’s a rich guy, what does he care?” takes. Each person is an individual. Judge THAT PERSON.
hemma Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 I think Rosen is the one that will drop to the bottom of the first or top of the second, mostly because of concussion history.
BobbyC81 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 8 hours ago, NickelCity said: "Statuesque" qbs can still sometimes be good in the pocket...a step up here, a shimmy there, good peripheral vision. Hopefully Rosen can improve in that area (if he's a bill). Rob Johnson was terrible at moving in the pocket and sensing pressure. And falling.
BobbyC81 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 8 hours ago, PIZ said: Little old, but interesting discussion. Darnold first QB taken. Then Allen. Darhorse is Lamar Jackson. Does not like Josh Rosen. Likes him as a passer, doesn't mind his personality, but doesn't think he can protect himself in the pocket. Compares Rosen in the pocket (injuries) to Sam Bradford. NFL.com does a great job of providing rating grades and analysis of all of the draft prospects. The grades are on a scale of 10 and Darnold was given a grade of 7.0. To put that in perspective, their legend shows that a grade between 7.00 and 7.49 classifies a player as "Pro Bowl to All-Pro Ability". His NFL comparison is Andrew Luck. The grades for the other top QBs and their comparisons are as follows: Rosen- 6.1, comp- Trent Green Mayfield- 6.0, Doug Flutie J.Allen- 6.0, Locker L.Jackson- 5.9, M.Vick Grades between 6.0 and 6.49 are noted as "Chance to become good NFL starter". Comparing Darnold's grade of 7.0 to other position players, only 4 players (Barkley, Nelson, Chubb and Edmunds) were given a higher grade with Barkley the highest at 7.4 So, the NFL.com analysis supports the position that Darnold is probably the only QB that should be taken in the first few picks, and to me, the only one worth the Bills trading a king's ransom to move up for.
thebandit27 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 Like I've been saying for weeks: Darnold and Allen are the first 2 QBs off the board Buffalo should move to 4 if they can and scoop up Rosen
LabattBlue Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 I think Mayock is nuts for putting Allen & Jackson ahead of Mayfield(my preferred choice for the Bills) and Rosen.
billsredneck1 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Bag of Milk said: I loved Mike Mayock initially on NFL networks. Through the years, either his plate has gotten too full or he doesn't grind watching tape like he used too. it seems like now he wants to stand out and be noticed. it seems like he has to throw something in the face of commonsense every so often. i sure wouldn't use his advice to bet.
JohnC Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Logic said: Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Tom Brady are three of the least athletic, most "statuesque" passers I can ever remember. When Mayock talked about Rosen there was a subtle difference when comparing him to the qbs you listed. He was making the point that he was uncomfortable with his ability to protect himself. He made the comparison to Bradford in that he is vulnerable to getting hit with regularity and being more prone to being injured. Marino rarely ran yet he quickly got rid of the ball. There were a variety of reasons why RG III failed, at least so far. One of the main reasons is that he didn't know how to protect himself. He had to be taught how to slide and go down. He too often made decisions of extending plays and refusing to go down, run out of bounds or simply throw it away. These were issues of judgment on the field. I consider Rosen the most polished passer in this draft class. I would be ecstatic if the Bills were able to select him. But that is not to say that Mayock's point of view is without merit or consideration.
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