Rico Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 10:26 PM, The Bills Blog said: I wouldn't, and I hope Brandon Beane agrees. And this is even a bare minimum of what it would cost to get to #2. Using the chart, #12 (Vander Esch), #22 (Moore), #53 (Rudolph), and #65 (Penny) get you to #2, but because of the Jets trade, you'll probably have to give up significantly more than that. Is Rosen (or your other preferred QB other than Darnold) better than Rudolph to the extent that you're willing to just not have Vander Esch, Moore, Penny, and some other high-impact player? I am firmly in the camp of keeping our picks at this point. The Bills are in position to build a dominant roster. Let McCarron, Rudolph, and Peterman compete. FYI: the available players came from the Fanspeak draft simulator using Matt Miller's board and the difficult algorithm. Rosen. Especially since I have zero interest in any of the players you picked. Your first round in particular would be a disaster IMO. 2
Scorp83 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 16 hours ago, Pbomb said: So you ask him how he knows someone will be good then go on to state their ceilings yourself. And is phillip rivers even better than matt ryan? I wasn't asking him how he knows as a form of sarcasm. I wanted to see if he'd done the research to come up with an answer that he gave. I actually took the time out & did my own thing. I have a knack for this kinda of thing. Some people can read 300 page books in 30mins....some people know QB's.
Teddy KGB Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Scorp83 said: I would say Phillip Rivers is better than Ryan For sure.
RocCityRoller Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 I agree with the OP here. I am firmly not on the Rosen or bust hype train here at TBD. Way too expensive to give up the house for a guy with a 17-13 record, multiple shoulder injures including nerve damage requiring surgery, and two concussions in a 60 day span to finish his college career. This doesn't cover any other potential 'side issues' multiple GMs and scouts have red flags about. Rosen quit on tennis right around the start of high school, where he was a top 50 junior player, due to shoulder injury. After about 8 or so months of rehab and potential need for surgery to regain his form he questioned his commitment to the sport, and he quit. This is where the concussions come in at the end of his career. Once a person has multiple concussions in a short span they become more susceptible to them. What happens if he gets one two more during his rookie contract? Dawkins and Mills are the guys protecting the next QB. His dad is a spinal surgeon. Why would he continue to play after pocketing $20+ million and risk future in anything he wanted (he is bright and would be set for life). Rosen is not exactly elusive and took 53 sacks in 30 games. Two significant throwing shoulder injuries in seven years..... 17-13 record. Most Buffalo Bills related message boards have panned the Bills QBs for not elevating the team and making the players around them better. Who has Josh Rosen done this for? a 59:26 TD to INT ratio isn't exactly exceptional either. Rosen could be a very talented QB, he looks the part in many ways, but there are significant yellow and red flags here. I see Sam Bradford all over this guy. Very good QB skill set, but is injury prone and may not have the heart to be 'the franchise' I still want Buffalo to go QB in this draft. It's a deep QB draft. I also want to see what AJ can do. Despite opinions no one here knows what he can do anymore than any of the Rookies. Remember if a fax goes through then another NFL team would have traded a 2nd and 3rd for him. The Pats also wanted him. This is a deep LB draft too, and the Bills need all the help they can get there, especially for McDermott's D. I'd rather go QB, LB in the first. WR/OL/DL/RB/CB in the second and third. Have a plan but let the draft fall to the Bills. 2 1
26CornerBlitz Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: I agree with the OP here. I am firmly not on the Rosen or bust hype train here at TBD. Way too expensive to give up the house for a guy with a 17-13 record, multiple shoulder injures including nerve damage requiring surgery, and two concussions in a 60 day span to finish his college career. This doesn't cover any other potential 'side issues' multiple GMs and scouts have red flags about. Rosen quit on tennis right around the start of high school, where he was a top 50 junior player, due to shoulder injury. After about 8 or so months of rehab and potential need for surgery to regain his form he questioned his commitment to the sport, and he quit. This is where the concussions come in at the end of his career. Once a person has multiple concussions in a short span they become more susceptible to them. What happens if he gets one two more during his rookie contract? Dawkins and Mills are the guys protecting the next QB. His dad is a spinal surgeon. Why would he continue to play after pocketing $20+ million and risk future in anything he wanted (he is bright and would be set for life). Rosen is not exactly elusive and took 53 sacks in 30 games. Two significant throwing shoulder injuries in seven years..... 17-13 record. Most Buffalo Bills related message boards have panned the Bills QBs for not elevating the team and making the players around them better. Who has Josh Rosen done this for? a 59:26 TD to INT ratio isn't exactly exceptional either. Rosen could be a very talented QB, he looks the part in many ways, but there are significant yellow and red flags here. I see Sam Bradford all over this guy. Very good QB skill set, but is injury prone and may not have the heart to be 'the franchise' I still want Buffalo to go QB in this draft. It's a deep QB draft. I also want to see what AJ can do. Despite opinions no one here knows what he can do anymore than any of the Rookies. Remember if a fax goes through then another NFL team would have traded a 2nd and 3rd for him. The Pats also wanted him. This is a deep LB draft too, and the Bills need all the help they can get there, especially for McDermott's D. I'd rather go QB, LB in the first. WR/OL/DL/RB/CB in the second and third. Have a plan but let the draft fall to the Bills. No one cares about UCLA's record while Rosen was there. It's not a knock on him at all with regard to what skills he brings to the NFL that will make him successful.
RocCityRoller Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rico said: Rosen. Especially since I have zero interest in any of the players you picked. Your first round in particular would be a disaster IMO. Vander Esch has all the tools to be the 'Luke Kuechly' of this defense. I may not want him at 12, but at 22 I think that he is a steal. You also wouldn't want Penny or Moore?I guess we'll let Rosen play behind Dawkins and Mills, throwing to Benjamin, naked and bleeding, and Streeter. Brilliant moves. Oh and relying on 2 30 year old backs, also brilliant. But hey Rosen will elevate the team like he did in college. Rosen would be in the ER by week 6. I'm all in on Vander Esch as the future anchor of the Defense. I might go for DJ Chark instead of Moore as a compliment to Benjamin, and I think value like Bo Scarborough may be a better pick around round 4-5, but I understand what the OP was getting at. Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences. 11 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: No one cares about UCLA's record while Rosen was there. It's not a knock on him at all with regard to what skills he brings to the NFL that will make him successful. Concussions? Shoulder injuries? Quitting a sport when things get hard? TD:INT%, sacks taken Elevating players around him? Opportunity cost? that doesn't seem to apply 'Chosen Rosen' around here. I'm going to enjoy the board melt down when he lands in NYC. Edited March 25, 2018 by RocCityRoller 1
What a Tuel Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, USABuffaloFan said: You don't go to 2nd pick over all with 12, PERIOD! Your acting like you have a top 10 pick, you don't. You also don't count well. We never gave up 5 1st rounders, we give up 4. Your giving up 12, 22, 1st 2019 and 1st 2020, then 2 2nds and 2 3rds. Think of it as a 3 way trade. Those are the assets we lose for Rosen. You all think 12, 22 2nd and 3rd get it done fro Rosen. If you don't want those players at those draft positions and want Rosen more, than why on earth would the Giants want those players over Rosen, Brakley or Chubb? They had their shots, they picked wrong Eagles just won the Superbowl, what are you trying to say? You said give up 12th, and 22nd to the Colts. That's two 1st rounders to get into the top 10. Then you said you'd have to give up that top ten pick to the giants. Plus you said you'd need to give the Giants 2 more 1st round picks. That is 5 1st rounders passing through our hands for 1 in return. Netting 4. Its the Sammy Watkins pick argument so let's agree to disagree. Also yes it would be more valuable to move up if we had a higher top ten pick. That is obvious. The Jets just did it with 3 2nd rounders, but you think the Giants would accept nothing less than 2 1sts, a 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder. I mean your argument ignores all recent trends. Edited March 25, 2018 by What a Tuel
26CornerBlitz Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Vander Esch has all the tools to be the 'Luke Kuechly' of this defense. I may not want him at 12, but at 22 I think that he is a steal. You also wouldn't want Penny or Moore?I guess we'll let Rosen play behind Dawkins and Mills, throwing to Benjamin, naked and bleeding, and Streeter. Brilliant moves. Oh and relying on 2 30 year old backs, also brilliant. But hey Rosen will elevate the team like he did in college. Rosen would be in the ER by week 6. I'm all in on Vander Esch as the future anchor of the Defense. I might go for DJ Chark instead of Moore as a compliment to Benjamin, and I think value like Bo Scarborough may be a better pick around round 4-5, but I understand what the OP was getting at. Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences. Concussions? Shoulder injuries? Quitting a sport when things get hard? Elevating players around him? that doesn't seem to apply 'Chosen Rosen' around here Any medical issues would have been flagged at the combine. Check! Picked the team sport of football over tennis. Looks like the right decsision based on how his game translates. How bad would they (UCLA) have been without him? Very with so little talenty on the team. You're nitpicking.
Pete Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 Would you rather have Jared Goff or Keanu Neal and Jordan Howard and Michael Thomas and Tyreek Hill and Deon Jones? That's what two 1s, two 2s, and a 3rd pick would of cost you in 2016. Anyone who would rather have Goff is nuts IMO
Pete Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 The problem is not the absent of a great QB- the problem is piss poor drafts the last decade. If this team can draft like last season- we will go deep into playoffs at the very least
QCity Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, Pete said: The problem is not the absent of a great QB- the problem is piss poor drafts the last decade. If this team can draft like last season- we will go deep into playoffs at the very least The goal isn't making the playoffs, it's winning a title. You need a QB for that. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The teams that are contenders year in and year out are those that have a QB.
RocCityRoller Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, QCity said: The goal isn't making the playoffs, it's winning a title. You need a QB for that. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. The teams that are contenders year in and year out are those that have a QB. Without a team how far has Andrew Luck gone? Giving up everything for Rosen here is the same. Edited March 25, 2018 by RocCityRoller 2
Rico Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 8 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: Vander Esch has all the tools to be the 'Luke Kuechly' of this defense. I may not want him at 12, but at 22 I think that he is a steal. You also wouldn't want Penny or Moore?I guess we'll let Rosen play behind Dawkins and Mills, throwing to Benjamin, naked and bleeding, and Streeter. Brilliant moves. Oh and relying on 2 30 year old backs, also brilliant. But hey Rosen will elevate the team like he did in college. Rosen would be in the ER by week 6. I'm all in on Vander Esch as the future anchor of the Defense. I might go for DJ Chark instead of Moore as a compliment to Benjamin, and I think value like Bo Scarborough may be a better pick around round 4-5, but I understand what the OP was getting at. Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences. Concussions? Shoulder injuries? Quitting a sport when things get hard? TD:INT%, sacks taken Elevating players around him? Opportunity cost? that doesn't seem to apply 'Chosen Rosen' around here. I'm going to enjoy the board melt down when he lands in NYC. He can turn out to be a HOF-er, but unless he was a QB, TE, or interior OL, I'm not even considering this before Day 3. My draft board, my rules. Now Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds? Maybe. 1
MarlinTheMagician Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 I wouldn't trade them for Rosen. Allen or Darnold on the other hand . . . .
Tyrod's friend Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 22 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: No one cares about UCLA's record while Rosen was there. It's not a knock on him at all with regard to what skills he brings to the NFL that will make him successful. I'm not terribly concerned with W-L for nearly any QB. It's a team game. I'm concerned about putting what amounts to an immobile QB that is twice concussed and injury prone behind a tragically limited offensive line. On top of that taking Rosen precludes having opportunity to get WR help. The history of the NFL is littered with teams that had no real talent, reaching for a QB savior and leaving the cupboard bare and destroying both the draftee and the franchise. I hope we don't follow. 1
Putin Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 9:34 PM, BillsRdue said: I wouldn't give it all up for Rosen. Not with his concussion history. For Darnold yes. My hope is we get the Baker. This ^^^^^ 2
DefenseWins Posted March 26, 2018 Posted March 26, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 12:59 AM, USABuffaloFan said: That wouldn't even come close to getting it done. Giants don't win this year with those picks and if they are quitting on Eli then they need Allot more not to take Chubb or Barkley. You admit this is so important to get Rosen (your not getting Darnold), so my friend is a Giants fan and they are set to draft their player, the only thing that gets this done is a top 10 pick, another 2 - 1st picks and a 2nd and a 3rd this year. So for the Bills that means going to 6, Indy wants our 12 and 22nd or a 2nd and a 3rd. OK done 12, 53 and 96 gone. Now Giants want 6, 2019 1st and 2020 1st, our 56th pick and 65. OK done. Bills have Rosen and 4th pick on, no 1st rounder again till 2021. Rosen starts, has too, 2nd most polished QB to come out since Luck. Bills go 6-10 and give top 10 1st rounder to Giants who pick a Qb like Rosen the following year. Bills struggle for 4-5 years and now Rosen has had 3500 yard seasons number 2 pick over all and wants out of Buffalo, get franchised at $30/mil a year. Buffalo has to cut a few players they had to buy in free agency because they have not had many players come in from the draft. Haven't been over 8-8 in a 5-6 years. No playoffs since Taylor, fans are livid and McBeane and McDermott are fired. Bills hire Rex Ryan to save us again and he goes gets Jackson a 5-6 year backup of Miami's to start for Buffalo. I don't know where u r getting your rather detailed info about what each team wants. But what I was saying was that giving up the 2019 1st rd pick would NOT be a "deal-breaker" in my opinion as some around here have intimated. Or to put it another way, 3 #1 picks is not a deal breaker for me at all whether it be 12 and 22 this year and 2019 #1 OR even 12, 2019 and 2020 #1 picks if you want it that way... and a few other picks if necesary to sweeten the deal... And with the $100 million in cap space next year to fill some holes this team will be fine... You'll see...
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