Reed83HOF Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 Listening to Greg Gabriel on Buffalo Sports page now and he is killing Allen...Basically confirming all of the concerns every poster on here has. Terrible against top competition, accuracy issues might be tied to footwork, but unlikely to be fixed etc...
Lurker Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, Reed83HOF said: Listening to Greg Gabriel on Buffalo Sports page now and he is killing Allen...Basically confirming all of the concerns every poster on here has. Terrible against top competition, accuracy issues might be tied to footwork, but unlikely to be fixed etc... Jared Goff says hello.... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/breaking-down-cals-jared-goff/ 1
Seventeen Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Listening to Greg Gabriel on Buffalo Sports page now and he is killing Allen...Basically confirming all of the concerns every poster on here has. Terrible against top competition, accuracy issues might be tied to footwork, but unlikely to be fixed etc... He said it's up to Allen to fix hi footwork issues here ... mechanics in any sport can be fixed with enough proper reps. See pro golf as an example. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/05/13/greg-gabriel-breaking-down-wyoming-qb-josh-allen/a3yfeoe/
Reed83HOF Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Looper said: He said it's up to Allen to fix hi footwork issues here ... mechanics in any sport can be fixed with enough proper reps. See pro golf as an example. http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/05/13/greg-gabriel-breaking-down-wyoming-qb-josh-allen/a3yfeoe/ Just putting info out... Can't entirely disagree with his accuracy statement- every year you see teams take chances ona guy with so-so accuracy and with other desired traits go to teams who think they can fix the accuracy issue (mechanics) almost never works out....
Seventeen Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said: Just putting info out... Can't entirely disagree with his accuracy statement- every year you see teams take chances ona guy with so-so accuracy and with other desired traits go to teams who think they can fix the accuracy issue (mechanics) almost never works out.... Yep, appreciate the info. Russell Wilson had some accuracy issues his 1st 3 years at NC State before transferring to Wisconsin. Wilson must've fixed something or did he just have a better set of receivers or throw shorter passes @ Wisconsin ? Stafford improved by almost 10 percentage points from soph to senior. Allen is coming out a year early, so we'll never know how his senior year might have been. If Allen throws 500 passes in a year in the NFL, to go from 56 to 60% is 20 more completions. I'd like to think an NFL team with better receivers might help those numbers. I'd be equally concerned with Allen's ability to read defenses and avoid interceptions.
Reed83HOF Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Looper said: Yep, appreciate the info. Russell Wilson had some accuracy issues his 1st 3 years at NC State before transferring to Wisconsin. Wilson must've fixed something or did he just have a better set of receivers or throw shorter passes @ Wisconsin ? Stafford improved by almost 10 percentage points from soph to senior. Allen is coming out a year early, so we'll never know how his senior year might have been. If Allen throws 500 passes in a year in the NFL, to go from 56 to 60% is 20 more completions. I'd like to think an NFL team with better receivers might help those numbers. I'd be equally concerned with Allen's ability to read defenses and avoid interceptions. Out of all the prospects Allen scares me the most. He has a lightening fast release, a super strong arm and is fairly mobile In my Madden 19 franchise draft, he will be the QB I target. In real life I would not trade up for him, if he was there at 12 and we don't move up you have to consider him. You also have to hope you have people on your staff who can work with him to "fix" his accuracy issues, not saying it is impossible, but the odds are not in favor of it. With the few who correct them, there are 100s more who didn't. I'm not sure our staff is able to do that... He looks good in the combine & pro-day settings, but when the real bullets fly, will he revert back to his muscle memory? Great point about the ability to read D and avoid TOs...It comes down to how much you value those great physical traits over these other concerns... The top 3 in the draft are Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield. I honestly will be surprised if these 3 bust out. I also think that between Allen, Jackson & Rudolph - one of them will be an okay starter, my gut says it would be Rudolph. Allen's key I think is being able to go to a team like Pitts where he can sit behind a franchise guy for a couple seasons...
Mat68 Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 11 hours ago, BigDingus said: Everyone knew he'd have a good pro day & combine before either happened! It's rarer for a QB to NOT have a good pro day than to have one, considering they control & setup all the entire event. It's all a well choreographed show, and not even close to representative of being in-game. On the field, he's nowhere close to that good. Why don't you go back & look at what teams are in his division, and who he played against. Here's a hint, the other teams in his conference had the same types of players on their roster too, yet he still couldn't beat them or put up monster numbers! When all your competition has the same level of players, your excuse can't be "I have nobody around me to work with, that's why I'm bad!" The response to that is "well so did everyone else!" To be completely fair here, Wyoming was and has been a cellar dweller of the NCAA and mountain West. The first time in 30 years Wyoming made back to back bowl games was the 2 years Allen was the starting QB. Hes a polarizing prospect. Some believe he has fatal flaws that will never allow him to be a good QB in the NFL. Some people see a raw young to football prospect that with coaching and proper technique could become special. Personally, I am a risk taker. The ceiling of Allen would intrigue me. If I was a coach I would be cocky maybe arrogant enough in my own ability that I would be able to coach him to an ability to get all that potential out of him. You have to be naive notto believe that when NFL coaches and minds watch him throw they all believe they are 1 who could get him to meet his potential.
buffalobloodfloridahome Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 The velocity that the ball leaves his hand with such little effort is amazing to watch. Unfortunately for him it takes more than that to be a QB you have to be smart and accurate. Losman had a rocket arm and athleticism too never developed anything more than a nice deep ball he had no touch.
billsredneck1 Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 20 hours ago, zonabb said: Said it last week.... Browns I think are drafting him. Didn't see any of it but reading what's been published and said by the Browns, I think he's the pick. Months ago someone stated Dorsey wouldn't pass on Allen. Then they acquired a started in TT. Then they called him their started for the year. That combination points toward Allen. Darnold could start Week 1 or soon after, same with Rosen. So taking TT and calling him the starter puts clear NFL ready players on the bench. Both who had said they're ready. Allen has admitted he needs work. I think Allen goes 1. Giants take Darnold 2, and the damn Jets get Rosen at 3 (not that I like him, I hate the Jets). in that case you know allen is going to denver so that puts baker into play....btw. i don't think rosen has any more than josh mc cown. i wouldn't be scared of him in ny. 20 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Out of all the prospects Allen scares me the most. He has a lightening fast release, a super strong arm and is fairly mobile In my Madden 19 franchise draft, he will be the QB I target. In real life I would not trade up for him, if he was there at 12 and we don't move up you have to consider him. You also have to hope you have people on your staff who can work with him to "fix" his accuracy issues, not saying it is impossible, but the odds are not in favor of it. With the few who correct them, there are 100s more who didn't. I'm not sure our staff is able to do that... He looks good in the combine & pro-day settings, but when the real bullets fly, will he revert back to his muscle memory? Great point about the ability to read D and avoid TOs...It comes down to how much you value those great physical traits over these other concerns... The top 3 in the draft are Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield. I honestly will be surprised if these 3 bust out. I also think that between Allen, Jackson & Rudolph - one of them will be an okay starter, my gut says it would be Rudolph. Allen's key I think is being able to go to a team like Pitts where he can sit behind a franchise guy for a couple seasons... i certainly won;t complain if we take rudolph and keep our picks unless of course mayfield falls.
NastyNateSoldiers Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 7 hours ago, Looper said: I'm in the minority here, but I like Allen and think he can be a good if not great QB at the NFL level. Folks say you can't teach throwing mechanics at the NFL level but I disagree. You change patterns with repetitive work and maybe his change is minor. Pro golfers do it all the time - look at how many times Tiger Woods has changed his swing. Matthew Stafford has made the adjustment just fine and improved his accuracy. I'd rather have the humble farm kid from the small town with the big upside than Baker Manziel ( I need a reality pre-draft show), or Josh "Hot Tub" Rosen who's a big head hit from being out of the league, or small hands whirlybird Darnold who has not played much in crappy weather. I didn't know Golfers had 300 plus pound men trying to rip there heads off at full speed.
BuffaloSol Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 3:07 PM, dbflaBill said: I live out of town I will buy you a large pizza and 20 wings if Allan goes in the top 10. Believe me its not happening. Will you buy me one to? I also live out of town but am willing to bet Allen goes top ten for sure.
Lfod Posted March 24, 2018 Posted March 24, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Chuck Wagon said: It's ludicrous, but if the Browns have Darnold and Allen close, they should take the guy they have first at 1 and if they guy they have second is available at 4, take him too. Best case, they are both good and you are trading one for a mega-ransom. Medium case, one is good and the other either isn't or doesn't get a chance to show much, and you are still trading him for something, but you have a franchise QB. Worst case, they both bust, but you are getting fired anyway. You are evil! Browns going QB at #1 and #4 would be epic! Edited March 24, 2018 by Lfod
THEHARDTRUTH Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 6:24 PM, gobills1212 said: I dont even necessarily disagree...but not even close to what I was arguing. Feel free to clarify.
Nihilarian Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 2:54 PM, Coach Tuesday said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2003/04/24/an-armful-of-talent-at-quarterback/9b7db504-5239-490b-93fc-faba3ecec8c0/?utm_term=.a8b80d515dd3 Brian Billick was on NFL network and stated he had a kid like Allen who had a bad accuracy problem in Kyle Boller and he thought they could fix it. They couldn't. The difference being that Boller played four years at Cal with a comp% of 38.6 his first year, 46.7 his second, 49.3 his third and finally 53.4 his senior season. That's four years of college. His NFL career comp% was at 56.7. Cal must have been desperate for a QB with completion percentages like those as those percentages are truly pathetic. Josh Allen has only played two seasons at Wyoming with some talent around in his first season and every player that touched the ball besides Allen was gone for the 2017 season and although his completion percentage stayed at 56%, 56.3 to be exact. There are several reasons as to why his comp% didn't improve in 2017. Mike Mayock recently stated he thinks Allen will be a top-five pick and I agree. Denver at the latest with the 6th pick. Most scouts will tell you that accuracy has so much to do with footwork and Allen even admitted his footwork in college was bad. He has since been working with Jordan Palmer(Carson's brother) who is a QB trainer and his footwork has improved as has his accuracy which he showed off at his pro day. Time will certainly tell whether this kid will be another Kyle Boller or Aaron Rodgers, Big Ben and I think it's the latter.
Bangarang Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 Whoever drafts this kid is going to need a QB within 3 years.
Bobby Hooks Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 10:12 AM, Jay_Fixit said: I really want the Jets to take this guy. This would make me happy on multiple levels.
Nihilarian Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 "If Allen wants to be a top 5 or top 10 type pick, he has to improve his overall game by developing his footwork and accuracy and decision-making. It’s a fact that quarterbacks who have accuracy problems in college don’t become accurate as NFL passers. Because of his lack of college experience, he is still a work in progress. Yes, there is loads of talent to work with, but that talent needs to be refined. It’s up to him to make those improvements in his game." http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/05/13/greg-gabriel-breaking-down-wyoming-qb-josh-allen/a3yfeoe/ Like I said in an earlier post he is working on his footwork. I would hate it if he became a NY Jet. Although they would probably ruin him there is still a chance he overcomes their inability to coach and becomes another Big Ben.
Seventeen Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: "If Allen wants to be a top 5 or top 10 type pick, he has to improve his overall game by developing his footwork and accuracy and decision-making. It’s a fact that quarterbacks who have accuracy problems in college don’t become accurate as NFL passers. Because of his lack of college experience, he is still a work in progress. Yes, there is loads of talent to work with, but that talent needs to be refined. It’s up to him to make those improvements in his game." http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/05/13/greg-gabriel-breaking-down-wyoming-qb-josh-allen/a3yfeoe/ Like I said in an earlier post he is working on his footwork. I would hate it if he became a NY Jet. Although they would probably ruin him there is still a chance he overcomes their inability to coach and becomes another Big Ben. I'm sure the Steelers would be thrilled if Allen slipped down to their draft position or they could move up a few spots to get him as the heir apparent to Big Ben.
JinxedBill1 Posted March 25, 2018 Posted March 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: "If Allen wants to be a top 5 or top 10 type pick, he has to improve his overall game by developing his footwork and accuracy and decision-making. It’s a fact that quarterbacks who have accuracy problems in college don’t become accurate as NFL passers. Because of his lack of college experience, he is still a work in progress. Yes, there is loads of talent to work with, but that talent needs to be refined. It’s up to him to make those improvements in his game." http://www.profootballweekly.com/2017/05/13/greg-gabriel-breaking-down-wyoming-qb-josh-allen/a3yfeoe/ Like I said in an earlier post he is working on his footwork. I would hate it if he became a NY Jet. Although they would probably ruin him there is still a chance he overcomes their inability to coach and becomes another Big Ben. His footwork looked fantastic at his pro day. That's different than the game which is what scares me about him. Hes got a ceiling of Big Ben and a floor of Jamarcus Russell.
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