Albert Breer's new mock

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Dont forget he is smart and has opinions! Rabble rabble rabble! And he's rich! 

 

Brady-esq....

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Jim Kelly 55.6% completion in college

 

Different game, different time. Stafford is the only current active example I’ve found.  He’s the exception to the rule  

 

edit: reading above shocked about Ryan. He did have two over 60 seasons thought and his average is as close to 60 as you can be. But still under 60 technically.. so a second outlier and probably the best success story of overcoming the odds. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[thebandit27]

Just now, Commonsense said:

Interesting examples, if I knew the guy I was getting at two was a Ryan or Palmer clone I might be reluctant to part with the picks.

 

Of course; the benefit of hindsight is great, right?  (that's just me talking; not a shot at you or anything)

 

I think people get way too hung up on completion percentage.  I am more interested in knowing if they've actually watched Allen face teams like Iowa, and saw how he threw the ball.  I also want to know if the same folks were aware that Allen competed against 3 teams that finished in the top-20 pass defense in FBS in 2017 (Air Force, Utah State, and Central Michigan--and in those games he completed 72.7%, 69.2%, and 57.9% of his passes, respectively.

 

My biggest problem is that people don't watch this kid, and they have no idea just how good he's been at times.

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Interesting.  You think every team is that scared of Rosen due to potential attitude problems/injuries?  I’d be shocked if they passed on Rosen for Allen (and extremely excited].  I could see it over Baker.  Just stand Allen and Mayfield side by side and it’s hard to blame them.  Can’t wait to see how this all transpires 

 

I don't think it's as much attitude/injuries as team fit.  Allen is blowing people's doors off with his physical ability, and as I said: the tape on the kid doesn't lie--when he's right, he's downright special.

[Lurker]

3 minutes ago, Like A Mofo said:

Josh Allen has the size, mobility and arm strength to be a QB in Buffalo.

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Lurker said:

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

 

Brady has size and arm strength 

[buffaloboyinATL]

2 hours ago, NewEraBills said:

If I had to "accept" Allen at 12 then I'd be OK so long as we got Vander Esch or Raashan Evans at MLB.  But if we give away the capital that it is being reported we will have to give up to move to #2 and select Allen this will be the most disappointing offseason in I don't know when.  We would have gone from being on a high of breaking the 17 year curse to THIS.  Ughhhhh

I disagree. If they believe after all of their research, that Allen has the potential to be our franchise quarterback, then I will be happy that they take the initiative to go get him. I would much prefer that they take control and go get the one they truly want, regardless of who it is, rather than wait and see who falls to us.

 

Hopefully, if there is no one they deem truly worthy, they will stay put and build the roster around McCarron and Peterman.

[foreboding]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think he does have a high ceiling.

 

Elite QBs have elite accuracy. Brady, Montany, Marino, Kelly, Brees, Manning, etc, etc, etc - they're all elite passers because they had elite accuracy. 

 

Accuracy is Allen's worst trait. If he's missing the thing all the elite guys had, how can his ceiling be as high? 

Hey Rober! I just got started at this new (to us) forum.

 

re: Allen. Really...I tend to agree with you, there are examples to the contrary, but I think that most had high completion percentages in college before they got to the much more challenging next level. He may have a high ceiling based on physical skills alone, but I agree that ain't worth no second pick IMO.

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

Isn't he like 6'4? And last I checked he can chuck the ball pretty well.

[Like A Mofo]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

 

Brady dosen't have the size? He sure does. And the Pats* are a tough example: Their system of play can work anywhere, mostly short and intermediate passes.

 

Mobility? Sure I agree there in regards to Brady

[T master]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

Barf. 

 

Allen is terrible. 

 

I not sure i would go that far but i don't think with a Comp. % in the mid 50's i'm not sure he's all that & a bag of chips !!
 

To give all that will be needed as far as draft capital to get to number 2 in this years draft the guy had better be a day one starter & be a almost no miss pick because we don't need another Sammy scenario !!! 

 

Or better yet a replay of EJ !!

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

I hear you and it is a good point. But I think Brady is a once in a lifetime situation. Using him as the example doesn’t say a whole lot jmo. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course; the benefit of hindsight is great, right?  (that's just me talking; not a shot at you or anything)

 

I think people get way too hung up on completion percentage.  I am more interested in knowing if they've actually watched Allen face teams like Iowa, and saw how he threw the ball.  I also want to know if the same folks were aware that Allen competed against 3 teams that finished in the top-20 pass defense in FBS in 2017 (Air Force, Utah State, and Central Michigan--and in those games he completed 72.7%, 69.2%, and 57.9% of his passes, respectively.

 

My biggest problem is that people don't watch this kid, and they have no idea just how good he's been at times.

What's going on is nuance is lost in the stereotyping of players. You see it in some of the judgments made on Mayfield, Rosen and Allen. While assets get magnified more often than not weaknesses get even more magnified and exaggerated as the evaluation process advances. Very often over-analyzing can be just as damaging as under-analyzing. When in doubt trust your eyes and instincts.  

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course; the benefit of hindsight is great, right?  (that's just me talking; not a shot at you or anything)

 

I think people get way too hung up on completion percentage.  I am more interested in knowing if they've actually watched Allen face teams like Iowa, and saw how he threw the ball.  I also want to know if the same folks were aware that Allen competed against 3 teams that finished in the top-20 pass defense in FBS in 2017 (Air Force, Utah State, and Central Michigan--and in those games he completed 72.7%, 69.2%, and 57.9% of his passes, respectively.

 

My biggest problem is that people don't watch this kid, and they have no idea just how good he's been at times.

 

I don't think it's as much attitude/injuries as team fit.  Allen is blowing people's doors off with his physical ability, and as I said: the tape on the kid doesn't lie--when he's right, he's downright special.

Do you think he’s the most physically gifted QB you’ve seen since the turn of the century?  I do.  I understand why people like him but I just wouldn’t take him over a guy like Rosen (unless there’s more to Rosen’s character concerns than I believe there to be).  I do worry that Rosen wouldn’t be happy in Buffalo.  Have you done enough research yet to determine who you would pick, Allen or Mayfield?  After a couple weeks of watching random game tapes of each, I’d have to go with Baker.  He’s shown he can win and lead a team while having ample arm strength and very good accuracy.  His fire is evident. To me, Allen looks like a wide eyed teenager in a Hulk body that has the best arm I’ve ever seen.  Tough decision for Beane.  I just wouldn’t want to give up the House for him

[CommonCents]

13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Of course; the benefit of hindsight is great, right?  (that's just me talking; not a shot at you or anything)

 

I think people get way too hung up on completion percentage.  I am more interested in knowing if they've actually watched Allen face teams like Iowa, and saw how he threw the ball.  I also want to know if the same folks were aware that Allen competed against 3 teams that finished in the top-20 pass defense in FBS in 2017 (Air Force, Utah State, and Central Michigan--and in those games he completed 72.7%, 69.2%, and 57.9% of his passes, respectively.

 

My biggest problem is that people don't watch this kid, and they have no idea just how good he's been at times.

 

I don't think it's as much attitude/injuries as team fit.  Allen is blowing people's doors off with his physical ability, and as I said: the tape on the kid doesn't lie--when he's right, he's downright special.

I didn't take it as a shot. I understood your point I was just illustrating the impossible situation Beane is in. What's the chances any of these guys are better than Ryan/Palmer? Then what is the chance after you take away the Browns choice (Darnold)?

 

Rosen/Allen are both guys who could make the players around them better. Mayfield is going to need talent much like Ryan/Palmer. If Beane does indeed part with the draft pile it sure will be tempting to go with one of the higher ceiling guys.

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What's going on is nuance is lost in the stereotyping of players. You see it in some of the judgments made on Mayfield, Rosen and Allen. While assets get magnified more often than not weaknesses get even more magnified and exaggerated as the evaluation process advances. Very often over-analyzing can be just as damaging as under-analyzing. When in doubt trust your eyes and instincts.  

 

Agreed

 

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Do you think he’s the most physically gifted QB you’ve seen since the turn of the century?  I do.  I understand why people like him but I just wouldn’t take him over a guy like Rosen (unless there’s more to Rosen’s character concerns than I believe there to be).  I do worry that Rosen wouldn’t be happy in Buffalo.  Have you done enough research yet to determine who you would pick, Allen or Mayfield?  After a couple weeks of watching random game tapes of each, I’d have to go with Baker.  He’s shown he can win and lead a team while having ample arm strength and very good accuracy.  His fire is evident. To me, Allen looks like a wide eyed teenager in a Hulk body that has the best arm I’ve ever seen.  Tough decision for Beane.  I just wouldn’t want to give up the House for him

 

I certainly think that Allen is in the conversation for most gifted, yes.

 

As for who I would take, man, my board is all over the place right now.  Who I like on a stand-alone basis, and who I like for specific team fits are vastly different.

 

Just now, Commonsense said:

I didn't take it as a shot. I understood your point I was just illustrating the impossible situation Beane is in. What's the chances any of these guys are better than Ryan/Palmer? Then what is the chance after you take away the Browns choice (Darnold)?

 

Rosen/Allen are both guys who could make the players around them better. Mayfield is going to need talent much like Ryan/Palmer. If Beane does indeed part with the draft pile it sure will be tempting to go with one of the higher ceiling guys.

 

I think Beane would move up for any of Darnold/Rosen/Allen, but that's just speculation on my part.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Plenty of mocks to go around, but Breer is especially plugged in around the league - and he specifically says that he showed the mock to league execs and "didn't get much pushback."  The Josh Allen rumors aren't going away and are either part of an elaborate smokescreen, or...

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-bills-trade-giants-josh-allen-broncos-trade-browns-baker-mayfield

 

2. Buffalo (projected trade with N.Y. Giants): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
The Bills have done a nice job building capital for a bold swing. This is one. Allen’s potential is limitless, and his big frame and arm are made for Buffalo, though he has a ways to go.

 

 

Did Breer expect to get pushback?  Did he expect GMs and scouts to tell him: "No you have it all wrong!  Let me show you our draft board and how we expect the draft to play out"?  

 

This mock isn't anything special and it neither excites me nor makes me worry.   It's just another mock.

 

(Apologies if I missed someone else pointing  out the same things).

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Agreed

 

 

I certainly think that Allen is in the conversation for most gifted, yes.

 

As for who I would take, man, my board is all over the place right now.  Who I like on a stand-alone basis, and who I like for specific team fits are vastly different.

 

 

I think Beane would move up for any of Darnold/Rosen/Allen, but that's just speculation on my part.

He’s the most gifted that I can recall.  Can’t help but look at him and see an overgrown teenager though.  Each QB has their issues.   The only thing that I’ve concluded so far, is that Rosen is currently the best QB of the bunch....but he hasn’t progressed very much since being the #1 recruit out of Hs.  Prior to signing AJ, the only 2 QBs that I’d be ok with trading up to #2 (and paying a lot to get there]  to draft Rosen or Darnold,   Now that we have a veteran qb with a chance for succes, I get the Allen love, but I wouldn’t draft him over either at #2.  Baker and Allen are a toss up.  Ideal scenario let’s usndraft Allen or abaker at 12 (or in a minor trade up that allows us to keep 22 and draft a LB, WR, DT or OL

[MAJBobby]

So a name that is constantly attached to Buffalo met with the team for 15 Min and had one game in his college career with a Bills scout at. 

 

Hmmmm and that is the guy they are in love with according to Media. 

[cba fan]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Tired s hearing about draft ‘capital’.  Whatever happen to the good ole draft pick?

agreed.

 

same with:

skill set.

money ball.

information super highway.

analytics.

optics.

 

 

[jrober38]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Funny how the most successful opposing QB ever to play in Buffalo (Brady) doesn't have the size, mobility or arm strength everyone keeps talking about...

 

    

 

Exactly.

 

The top QBs in NFL history for the most part were guys who didn't blow the doors off with their athletic ability. 

 

The majority of Hall of Fame passers are smart, cerebral players with pin point accuracy. There are exceptions, but they are extremely rare. 

 

The best QBs of the modern era (last 15 years) are Tom Brady (no mobility, mediocre arm strength, pin point precision), Peyton Manning (no mobility, decent arm, pin point precision), Drew Brees (limited mobility, subpar size, decent arm, pin point precision), Aaron Rodgers (good mobility, elite arm, mediocre size, pin point precision).

 

The common trait when you look at any elite QB who is more than a flash in the pan is elite accuracy, and Allen simply doesn't have it. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by jrober38

[transplantbillsfan]

If it happens it happens and we'll all get behind Allen eventually. But for a coach and GM that have been pretty water tight over the last year in terms of leaks I just think there's way too much of a public connection here for this interest to be this real or this strong.