Chuck Wagon Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: Oh Chucky. He also likes his job, and realizes his career is staked on this draft. GM's don't stay employed unless they win, and they don't win without a stud qb. I think Allen could thrive in a place where he had an AJ Green, Julio, etc. Big targets with big catch radius. Obviously nobody knows which (if any) of these qb's are going to pan out, but Allen reminds me of Ryan Leaf, which isn't fair to the kid, but I can't help it. I completely agree we don't have a great situation here to allow a young QB to succeed. A first year OC, a depleted WR corps, replacing a longtime staple at center, it's not an ideal situation. But Wentz and Goff weren't drafted into an ideal situation and the team aggressively put pieces around them in year 2. Trubisky is in a similar situation. The cap space next year allows us to get our QB this year and aggressively put pieces around him next offseason. Guys are going to be much more likely to sign here if an exciting young QB is in place. However, my faith in Beane & co actually having the guts to put it out there to make the move is waning. Patience is their game, there's something to be said for that, it got McCarron at a much cheaper price than calling him on day 1 would have, I just don't see that winning out when it comes to making a move up.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, jrober38 said: It's unbelievable how people vouch for these QBs every year. It's like the scene in Money Ball where the old scouts are gushing about how a prospects swing looks, how the bat sounds when he makes contact, etc, and Brad Pitt responds by asking, if he's a good hitter, then why isn't he a good hitter? That's how I view Allen. I don't care that he looks like a franchise QB or that he can throw a football 80 yards (a completely irrelevant trait in the NFL considering no QB is ever required to throw the ball 80 yards). I care about how well he "passes" the football, and he falls way short in that category due to his very poor accuracy. We have lived that life. what many miss is this doesn’t mean very accurate college QB succeed, only that inaccurate ones won’t. sure there may be one exception, but it’s sort of like in the working world GPA, high school degrees or college degrees, etc.. Certain jobs have basic floor requirements because 99.9% of people who don’t meet the minimums will fail. And its not true for every type of role, but it’s definitely true for some. And the QB is the COO of your offense.
Tatonka68 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said: Terrible mock. He doesn't have Mason Rudolph in the first! He knows nothing. Anyway, I'm am starting to feel like the Giants could want Barkley. If he is there at two they won't trade out. If the Browns take him at one, they will trade out. Breer mentions that the Giants love Barkley and Nelson. This is all contingent on the Giants not wanting a quarterback, but I think we we could have standing offers for the 2 and 4 picks. If the Browns go QB and the Giants get Barkley, the Browns probably trade us 4. If the Browns take Barkley, the Giants maybe trade out with us, and the Browns get a quarterback at 4. I think it is all contingent on if Barkley is available. Either way we would be guaranteed 1 of Allen, Darnold, Rosen. Who says Rudolph is not a first round pick, "the draft experts". Give me a break. LOL
MrEpsYtown Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said: Who says Rudolph is not a first round pick, "the draft experts". Give me a break. LOL We shall see what happens. I have to trust those in the know and my own eyes over some guys on a message board, you know what I'm saying?
jrober38 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Who says Rudolph is not a first round pick, "the draft experts". Give me a break. LOL He's not a first round pick. He doesn't have any elite traits and is actually pretty average across the board. Looks like a long term backup. 2
BuffaloRebound Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 The 60% completion percentage thing is beyond stupid. The difference between Allen's completion percentage and 60% is one drop per game. I counted at least 4 in the Iowa game that were clear drops. One of his Receivers had a TD bounce off his chest. When you have an elite arm and play with WR's who are low D-1 caliber, you're gonna have drops.
foreboding Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ScottLaw said: I seriously wonder if McDermott would take Rosen because of his religious beliefs. Dumbest thing I read so far today.
MAJBobby Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: Who says Rudolph is not a first round pick, "the draft experts". Give me a break. LOL Mid 2nd round Grade from me 1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said: The 60% completion percentage thing is beyond stupid. The difference between Allen's completion percentage and 60% is one drop per game. I counted at least 4 in the Iowa game that were clear drops. One of his Receivers had a TD bounce off his chest. When you have an elite arm and play with WR's who are low D-1 caliber, you're gonna have drops. You say drop i say bad decision which I count 5-9 per game. Fact is fact. Sub 60% passers do not succeed in Modern NFL and Josh Allen is a 56% career passer as a two year Starter Edited March 21, 2018 by MAJBobby
Dr. Who Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Allen is high ceiling, low floor. I wouldn't trade up to 2 for him, but if Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Jackson were all gone by 12 (highly doubtful,) I admit I would pull the trigger, though I think the odds are against Allen working out. I'd rather take a shot at the high ceiling than take Rudolph there, that's for sure. 1
foreboding Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Elway had a career completion percentage of 56.9 and was NEVER considered "pinpoint" accurate, ever...Neither was Favre. Both are all-time greats. Russell Wilson is one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and I don't think anyone would say accuracy is he best trait. But sure, lets revise history to support your narrative. Do you know who IS "accurate"? Nathan Peterman Wilson is VERY accurate and so was Favre. Elway was a winner and played in an era when you could get the ball downfield more consistently. Not to mention you just listed three QB's with legendary will to win attitudes. Hard to measure that for a draft.
jrober38 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: The 60% completion percentage thing is beyond stupid. The difference between Allen's completion percentage and 60% is one drop per game. I counted at least 4 in the Iowa game that were clear drops. One of his Receivers had a TD bounce off his chest. When you have an elite arm and play with WR's who are low D-1 caliber, you're gonna have drops. I can't find the link, but I've seen each QBs adjusted completion percentage and Allen is still at the bottom of the barrel. Mayfield and Jackson had a much higher percentage of drops.
Starr Almighty Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/draft-top-five-picks-mmqb-mailbag-peter-king Peter King also has the Bills moving up to 2 and taking Allen.?♂️?♂️?♂️
Mikey152 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, foreboding said: Wilson is VERY accurate and so was Favre. Elway was a winner and played in an era when you could get the ball downfield more consistently. Not to mention you just listed three QB's with legendary will to win attitudes. Hard to measure that for a draft. So, because you say it I'm just supposed to take it at face value? Did you see Wilson at this year's skill competition? Accurate my ass.
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/draft-top-five-picks-mmqb-mailbag-peter-king Peter King also has the Bills moving up to 2 and taking Allen.?♂️?♂️?♂️ Yep, Allen is the name being floated. I don’t buy it though. I think it’s Rosen or Jackson. Rosen if they can trade and Jackson if they can’t. I’m probably wrong though.
Chicken Boo Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Chuck Wagon said: Beane doesn't have the guts to go to 2, he's drunk on his draft capital. Reverse psychology?
MAJBobby Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, DFT said: Yep, Allen is the name being floated. I don’t buy it though. I think it’s Rosen or Jackson. Rosen if they can trade and Jackson if they can’t. I’m probably wrong though. To me Allen screams a name the FO purposely floated and is keeping out there for smoke 2
foreboding Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: So, because you say it I'm just supposed to take it at face value? Did you see Wilson at this year's skill competition? Accurate my ass. Wilson 2016 - 64.7% Rating 95.4 2017 - 61.3% Rating: 92.6 Favre 62% Career Brady, is he accurate you think? 63.9% career Skill competition, lol. Yep that is how we should judge superbowl winning QB's Edited March 21, 2018 by foreboding
Dr. Who Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, DFT said: Yep, Allen is the name being floated. I don’t buy it though. I think it’s Rosen or Jackson. Rosen if they can trade and Jackson if they can’t. I’m probably wrong though. This is my surmise as well. 1
Chicken Boo Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Mid 2nd round Grade from me You say drop i say bad decision which I count 5-9 per game. Fact is fact. Sub 60% passers do not succeed in Modern NFL and Josh Allen is a 56% career passer as a two year Starter Matt Ryan was a sub 60% guy and threw 29 picks in his last 2 seasons at BC.
thebandit27 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Not for nothing, but whether or not the 60% rule applies really depends upon your definition of "success". For example: Josh McCown was a career 51% passer in college, and all he's done is put together a 16-year career that includes 73 starts, and he's coming off of his best season as a pro--one in which he completed over 67% of his passes for a career-high 7.4 YPA. Obviously we have the Stafford example, but how many folks knew that Russell Wilson completed only 60.7% of his passes in college, and that prior to his senior season at Wisconsin, he was a career 57% passer? Carson Palmer was a career 59% passer at USC Matt Ryan was a career 59.9% passer at Boston College--including 59.3% as a senior So perhaps it's worth re-thinking the idea that (a) below 60% accuracy is some kind of automatic failure threshold, and (b) accuracy cannot be improved from college to the pros. 5
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