Buffalo Bills Detective Posted March 21, 2018 Author Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Call_Of_Ktulu said: I know, we would only have Wilson, Cousins or Carr as a QB if I was. Someone's sure full of himself.
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DFT said: I think you have it well-pegged outside of WR being woeful. I also think this is a very solid TE group. The DL group is just unreal; best I’ve seen in years. This is not the draft to draft one of these guys so high because the difference in them is so negligible. I’m high on this DB class, maybe more than most because of how many quality CB/S transitional players will be available. RB is similar to APs draft. 2-3 elite guys and 10-13 solid potential starters. I think this WR class is going to shock people. I really do!!! Thanks. I'm guessing all your extra "day 1 starters" are at WR and DB then. I would be shocked if this is a good WR group. I think it sucks. I think the DB group (beyond Fitzpatrick and James) is full of guys who either only transition as nickel corners at the NFL level or who are very precise scheme fits. You are probably closer to the media consensus. I have heard a lot of folks say they think this is a deep talented class. I just don't see it. EDIT: I should say TE is the one position I am really behind on. Haven't done much work at all on that position group yet. Even the top guys are a bit of a blindspot for me. Edited March 21, 2018 by GunnerBill
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: I'm guessing all your extra "day 1 starters" are at WR and DB then. I would be shocked if this is a good WR group. I think it sucks. I think the DB group (beyond Fitzpatrick and James) is full of guys who either only transition as nickel corners at the NFL level or who are very precise scheme fits. Most of my day 1 are on defense, but I’m speaking collectively about what I’m hearing from others. The consensus seems to be that this is an outstanding draft, especially for teams needing Defense, QB or RB. There’s always going to be disagreement, but should be a good one!
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said: He was an elite college quarterback. Much more so than Rosen, Darnold, and Allen. You can't be an elite college quarterback without elite traits. You really don't want to hear what almost all of the scouts say do you? And that is that Rudolph is not an elite QB. You dodged our earlier discussion trying to use your opinion as evidence. Now you're trying to tell us that the top guys as rated by the scouts weren't elite. I'm sorry but this can't be taken seriously. Just take your Loss and drop the argument.
Tyrod's friend Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) I just think there's so much value in this draft, especially between picks 12 and 60. I'd strongly consider moving down from 12, accumulating a higher second round pick (and even, use 2019 draft capital to do so). If we could increase our draft picks in the first and second round by one or two picks, we'd be able to totally restock this team. It is entirely possible that you could be looking at almost an entire starting lineup under the age of 25 in 2018 - several of them, budding stars. You would have considerable flexibility to offer Matt Ryan a fully guaranteed, three year contract valued at $115MM. I'm pretty sure he'll be at least as good as Sam Darnold over the next few years. I'm not saying don't move to 2; but if the Browns are in love with the same QB you want or the Giants want to rape you, take a flyer on the likes of a QB no sooner than the 4th round (White) and stock the pond. Just take Falk or similar in the 4th or later. Edited March 21, 2018 by Tyrod's friend
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Tyrod's friend said: I just think there's so much value in this draft, especially between picks 12 and 60. I'd strongly consider moving down from 12, accumulating a higher second round pick (and even, use 2019 draft capital to do so). If we could increase our draft picks in the first and second round by one or two picks, we'd be able to totally restock this team. It is entirely possible that you could be looking at almost an entire starting lineup under the age of 25 in 2018 - several of them, budding stars. I'm not saying don't move to 2; but if the Browns are in love with the same QB you want or the Giants want to rape you, take a flyer on the likes of a QB no sooner than the 4th round (White) and stock the pond. If the Browns are in love with the same QB you are, and the Giants want to rape you, just take Falk or similar in the 4th or later. It’s not a terrible idea, to move down, it’s just wildly unpopular, with the QB talent at the forefront and that arguably being the biggest need. If you can’t secure one of the big 4 though and the prototypical LB or WR is gone, definitely trade down. Agreed! 1
oldmanfan Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 The best reason to take one? All the people here saying Jackson or Rudolph will stink are the ones who will go nuts criticizing OBD if either one winds up being the guy for some team. And it would shut them up if you take one of them
Boatdrinks Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 They should take Jackson at 12 if no teams are willing to trade out of their spots and assuming Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen are gone. Why? Because they don't have a QB. The potential payoff is greater at that spot than any other player remaining on the board not named Barkley. Find a QB. A huge part of the reason the Bills haven't had a QB for so long isn't a lack of moving up, but a lack of taking a chance while you have it. Keep taking QBs until you hit on one. You miss all the shots that you don't take, as Wayne Gretzky once said. As for Rudolph , he lacks any great upside potential. I'd take a different QB that was available after round 1 as well, just not Rudolph.
SouthNYfan Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The best reason to take one? All the people here saying Jackson or Rudolph will stink are the ones who will go nuts criticizing OBD if either one winds up being the guy for some team. And it would shut them up if you take one of them I would criticize them solely on the fact that it's their job to scout and draft, and they made an error, but I would also bow down and eat crow yo the guys saying they should draft one of them.
Wayne Arnold Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 37 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Landry and Petty both got past the Patriots numerous times so I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Belichick likes guys who have elite accuracy in the short and intermediate passing game. That's what Brady is, and that's what Garoppolo offers. That's the most important thing they value in QBs because their offense is predicated around getting the ball out accurately and on time so that receivers can run after the catch. Rudolph is best at chucking the ball down the field, so I don't think there's a fit there at all. Rudolph would have made sense to Bruce Arians. No idea if there's anyone else left in the NFL who runs something similar. Landry and Petty were never considered first-round or even second-round talents. Neither had nearly the same size and downfield accuracy that Rudolph has. Landry never finished better than 24th in the country in passer rating. I don't know why you keep bringing them up. Because they played in the Big 12? So did Pat Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and Andy Dalton. Jimmy Garappolo, Jared Goff, Case Keenum and Deshaun Watson all played in similar spread/shotgun/no-huddle offenses in college. The days of writing off quarterbacks just because of the system they played in are over.
Solomon Grundy Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: What makes him spectacular though? Because he can run? He simply makes plays!! With arm or legs, he's a PLAYMAKER!! 5 hours ago, DFT said: I disagree heavily and respectfully. I love Petrino, but my opinion is he left a lot of the development on the table (which is truly unlike him) and took advantage of his QBs natural athleticism. This kid has infinite untapped potential as a QB. He's IMPROVED every season under Petrino!! Check the stats!! Ask the "experts"!!
RochesterRob Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 57 minutes ago, DFT said: It’s not a terrible idea, to move down, it’s just wildly unpopular, with the QB talent at the forefront and that arguably being the biggest need. If you can’t secure one of the big 4 though and the prototypical LB or WR is gone, definitely trade down. Agreed! I kind of like the idea of trading down out of 12 if Mayfield and Roquan Smith are off the board then. Especially if is a good bet Evans is there at 19 or so. 1
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, the skycap said: He simply makes plays!! With arm or legs, he's a PLAYMAKER!! He's IMPROVED every season under Petrino!! Check the stats!! Ask the "experts"!! Improved stats don’t always equal improved mechanics. It sometimes means that the coach is doing a good job building around their QB and masking difficiencies, as is (in my opinion) the case with Jackson.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 12 is too high for Rudolph. If Rosen or Darnold are there, take them. (They won’t be though, Darnold won’t for sure) otherwise BPA
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I kind of like the idea of trading down out of 12 if Mayfield and Roquan Smith are off the board then. Especially if is a good bet Evans is there at 19 or so. You are not alone there!!! Jackson would be VERY hard for me to pass up at 12 though, knowing how highly regarded some of the top teams hold him.
RochesterRob Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, DFT said: It’s not a terrible idea, to move down, it’s just wildly unpopular, with the QB talent at the forefront and that arguably being the biggest need. If you can’t secure one of the big 4 though and the prototypical LB or WR is gone, definitely trade down. Agreed! It's only wildly unpopular with several extremely vocal posters. I would say based on casual observation that the board is almost split 50/50 between going up and adopting more or less a BPA available strategy. In any event there seems to be only 100 active posters or so on a daily basis here so I would hate to think that OBD would go out of its way to please any one block of poster. 1
DFT Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, RochesterRob said: It's only wildly unpopular with several extremely vocal posters. I would say based on casual observation that the board is almost split 50/50 between going up and adopting more or less a BPA available strategy. In any event there seems to be only 100 active posters or so on a daily basis here so I would hate to think that OBD would go out of its way to please any one block of poster. You are correct. They have a non-fan/Analyst facing strategy and they are guarding it better than any previous regime. They’re all in on their direction and regardless of what happens, it won’t please everyone. Anyone who comes forward and says they know what Buffalo is doing is just speculating (poorly). 1 Bills is air tight, which tells me they are locked on to someone specifically. But again, that’s strictly a guess on my part 1
Alphadawg7 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Buffalo Bills Detective said: Interested in hearing your arguments as to why you feel that Beane should take either Lamar Jackson or Mason Rudolph at 12, in the event that the Browns and Giants are unwilling to trade out of their spots. There are all kinds of threads on here making their case for each of those QB's...just saying.
jrober38 Posted March 21, 2018 Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said: Landry and Petty were never considered first-round or even second-round talents. Neither had nearly the same size and downfield accuracy that Rudolph has. Landry never finished better than 24th in the country in passer rating. I don't know why you keep bringing them up. Because they played in the Big 12? So did Pat Mahomes, Baker Mayfield and Andy Dalton. Jimmy Garappolo, Jared Goff, Case Keenum and Deshaun Watson all played in similar spread/shotgun/no-huddle offenses in college. The days of writing off quarterbacks just because of the system they played in are over. LOL Who the hell cares about where a guy is projected. Matt Barkley was supposed to be a top 10 pick. He went in the 4th round. Bryce Petty was supposed to be a 2nd round pick; he went in the 4th round. Where arm chair GMs project a guy to go is about as useless a piece of info as their is. All that matters is where a guy actually gets picked on draft day. I bring those things up because their pros and cons as prospects are essentially the same. They all had good size. They all had outstanding college production. They all had limited mobility. They all had mediocre arms. They all had limited experience reading the field. Aside from Dalton who was pretty average, all of the guys you named had one elite thing going for them, whether it be accuracy, arm strength or mobility; they all had at least one trait that was well above average if not elite. Rudolph doesn't have elite accuracy (his deep ball is very good, short and intermediate throws are less consistent). He doesn't have elite mobility. He doesn't have elite arm strength. He's just a guy. You might love him but I see a guy who is going to be nothing more than a backup in the NFL. He was a good college QB who played in a super QB friendly system surrounded by really good NFL talent. Maybe he'll be really good, but I'm not betting on it. I don't see any difference between him and the majority of NFL prospects who never amount to anything.
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