Was Trent Edwards broken?

[Prickly Pete]

16 hours ago, DFT said:

You hit the proverbial nail!  We don’t fully understand TAU and it’s impact on the brain.  They’re just beginning to see the correlation between neurological brain mapping and CTE, which otherwise could only be detected post-mortem.  His effects, to hear him tell it, was like a bad and confusing hang over that just seemed to get worse and worse.  It’s too easy to ridicule the guy as a player, but much harder to see the human side of it.  It’s just sad.  He’s an immensely likeable guy.  

 

This is what I find so weird. Why are you so wrapped up in "The Trentative Saga of Trent Edwards", 10 years on?

Are you related to him? A family friend? 

 

He showed a sliver of promise (no more than truckloads of forgettable QB's that have passed through the NFL, but never really caught on), and lots of shortcomings (like truckloads of QB that have passed through the NFL, but are now forgotten). I mean, he's no Eric Hipple, or Scott Mitchell.

 

Will any Cleveland Browns fans be wringing their hands over what Derek Anderson's Legacy should be, 10 years later?

 

Are there Lions fans mounting a yearly defense on message boards, to uphold the honor of Jon Kitna?

 

All these guys were better than Trentative.

 

Why this emotional obsession over a not-that-notable QB?

 

There have been way better players that have been lost to injury, that never get mentioned on this board. When was the last time there was a Takeo Spikes thread?

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by OJABBA

[The Red King]

4 hours ago, OJABBA said:

 

This is what I find so weird. Why are you so wrapped up in "The Trentative Saga of Trent Edwards", 10 years on?

Are you related to him? A family friend? 

 

He showed a sliver of promise (no more than truckloads of forgettable QB's that have passed through the NFL, but never really caught on), and lots of shortcomings (like truckloads of QB that have passed through the NFL, but are now forgotten). I mean, he's no Eric Hipple, or Scott Mitchell.

 

Will any Cleveland Browns fans be wringing their hands over what Derek Anderson's Legacy should be, 10 years later?

 

Are there Lions fans mounting a yearly defense on message boards, to uphold the honor of Jon Kitna?

 

All these guys were better than Trentative.

 

Why this emotional obsession over a not-that-notable QB?

 

There have been way better players that have been lost to injury, that never get mentioned on this board. When was the last time there was a Takeo Spikes thread?

 

 

 

None of the players you mentioned receive the venom Trent does.  Hell, you've proven my point this thread just by labelling him "Trentative".  That's why it's being discussed.  Nobody is claiming the guy would have been HoF had he not been concussed, but many think he would not have been anywhere near as bad.  And if that's the case, he simply doesn't deserve the abuse he gets.  He certainly didn't look "Trentative" leading a come from behind win against the Raiders.

[bills11]

19 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

It's strange how much some people still hate Trent Edwards.  Count me among those who believe he was absolutely a different player after that hit.  He was never a vertical passer, but early in his career he was very willing and able to take shots into the intermediate part of the field.  He was a West Coast Offense player and got the ball out quick, generally speaking, but that doesn't mean checking down.  Something clearly got screwed up with his ability to process what was in front of him after that game.  Watch film of the games leading up to the hit and then watch the game he played against the Monday night game he played against the Browns later that season.  He clearly lost his ability to process what was in front of him.  After that Browns game, I knew his career was finished.  He played some statistically good games after that, but he never looked the same.  He looked timid, fragile and lost.

Wasnt the best game of his career his next start after the concussion vs the Chargers though and ironically the one time he played well vs a 3-4 defence

[4merper4mer]

18 hours ago, Rob's House said:

The long term effects of that hit wouldn't necessarily be evident the following week. He would likely be operating on adrenaline and emotion in his immediate return. It's also likely that subsequent hits would take a much steeper toll as a result of taking that earlier hit than they otherwise would. 

 

The lingering and cumulative effects would likely hinder him more from a mental aspect as time passed and the effects persisted or worsened.

 

Obviously we'll never know what might have been but for that hit, but a strong showing the following week is not dispositive evidence that it wasn't a significant factor in his decline.

Then why did he suck before the hit?

 

Occum's Shaver says it was due to sucking.

[Matt_In_NH]

13 minutes ago, bills11 said:

Wasnt the best game of his career his next start after the concussion vs the Chargers though and ironically the one time he played well vs a 3-4 defence

 

Yep.   NFL players get concussions and bad concussions all the time.  Trent did not change after that hit....it is a Bills urban legend.  Trent was simply limited in his ability to see things down the field, defenses caught on and made him ineffective.  It is not unusual for a QB to do well at first and then defenses take away what he likes to do, the QB becomes less effective.  At that point, a QB has to evolve, Trent did not.

[4merper4mer]

9 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

So he had a worse game than all pro Tony Romo? 

Nope.  Nice try.  He was getting tons of credit for "almost beating Dallas" when he had zero to do with it.  Edwards is not the first terrible QB in the NFL nor was he the last.  But he was terrible before during and after the hit he took.

1 hour ago, The Red King said:

None of the players you mentioned receive the venom Trent does.  Hell, you've proven my point this thread just by labelling him "Trentative".  That's why it's being discussed.  Nobody is claiming the guy would have been HoF had he not been concussed, but many think he would not have been anywhere near as bad.  And if that's the case, he simply doesn't deserve the abuse he gets.  He certainly didn't look "Trentative" leading a come from behind win against the Raiders.

He sucked before the hit.  I don't think the "venom" is really for Trent, rather it is a manifestation of having to read ridiculous false narratives about how he was good before the hit or had some sort of above average potential.  Neither are true.  He sucked.  No one is mad at him for sucking.  People get frustrated reading about false excuses.

 

Losman, EJ, Orton, Fitz, heck even Levi Brown get similar treatment at times.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I agree with many here. When Trent took that hit he lost it.  

[dave mcbride]

On 3/21/2018 at 4:28 PM, 4merper4mer said:

The meaning of my post was obvious but I'll spell it out for you.

 

He S U C K E D before the concussion too.  I do not wish him any harm or ill effects from his football playing days.

He was actually quite good before the concussion that season. In the first four games, his rating was 93.5, he averaged 7.8 ypa, and his completion pct was 65.5. I knock out rookie seasons for qbs who come in only because the starter got injured. It wasn't like he was a top 5 pick. He was never a great qb, but saying he S U C K E D before the concussion is hyperbole that doesn't match anything close to reality.  He played well in early 2008. He was quite bad afterward. 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:14 PM, BuffaloBill said:

He was not the same player after that hit.

I guess I'd be trentative too if I got destroyed like that.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He was actually quite good before the concussion that season. In the first four games, his rating was 93.5, he averaged 7.8 ypa, and his completion pct was 65.5. I knock out rookie seasons for qbs who come in only because the starter got injured. It wasn't like he was a top 5 pick. He was never a great qb, but saying he S U C K E D before the concussion is hyperbole that doesn't match anything close to reality.  He played well in early 2008. He was quite bad afterward. 

He SUCKED.  I watched the games and he sucked.  The winning play against a horrible Seattle team was made by the FG holder.  We needed a miracle from James Hardy of allpeopletobeat Jax.  He had a nice drive against a bad Raiders team and sucked badly before the injury in Ariz.

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

He was actually quite good before the concussion that season. In the first four games, his rating was 93.5, he averaged 7.8 ypa, and his completion pct was 65.5. I knock out rookie seasons for qbs who come in only because the starter got injured. It wasn't like he was a top 5 pick. He was never a great qb, but saying he S U C K E D before the concussion is hyperbole that doesn't match anything close to reality.  He played well in early 2008. He was quite bad afterward. 

 

He also only had 4 tds, and had 4 turnovers. 

 

He had had a pretty good Game vs the jags but was pretty meh otherwise. He had a couple games after that were better than any pre-hit. 

 

I think theres a fundamental flaw in the sampling being small pre hit that year and him simply being a mediocre qb that occasionally would have decent days.

[BullBuchanan]

On 3/20/2018 at 5:55 PM, The Red King said:

After reading a post on Polian that mentioned Edwards, I figured I could put up a non-draft related one as a change of pace.

 

Trent Edwards started hot out of the gate, giving us hope for the first time in awhile.  And then we played the Cards, and Trent was blasted into next week.  The purpose of my post is to see if anyone holds my theory, that Trent never fully recovered from the concussion.  That, had he never been concussed, he might well have been a star QB.

 

I know, I know, I can feel your skeptisism.  I shared it.  But then I saw it.  One specific game against Miami made me question.  Edwards took a shot, and something seemed to click.  He was sharper, more decisive.  He led them to an impressive, efficient TD drive.  A later hit and he was back to captain checkdown.  But what really drove it home was far later that game.  3rd and long, and yet again he checked down and took off...even though it was obvious he wouldn't make it.  He was run out of bounds 2-3 yards shy.  Or...was about to be.  He ran to the sideline and then just pulled up and stopped, not past the sideline but just before it.  Even the defender seemed confused.  He eased up, and just as he was about to make contact, Edwards finally stepped out.

 

Once I saw that, I knew something was still wrong with Edwards.  I went from being frustrated with him, to pitying him.  And wondering, was the Edwards we saw him at his best, or were we watching a quarterback that never recovered from an early concussion?  What do you all think?

 

If I remember correctly it was Actually 4th down with the game on the line. Going into the Cards game he led the NFL in nearly every category and looked like he was a lock for the Pro-Bowl and the drought was over. It was a really sad day. I was in Seattle and the run had brought 200-250 people into the Bills Backers bar to cheer for the Bills. The next week there were 10 of us.

Edited March 23, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

He SUCKED.  I watched the games and he sucked.  The winning play against a horrible Seattle team was made by the FG holder.  We needed a miracle from James Hardy of allpeopletobeat Jax.  He had a nice drive against a bad Raiders team and sucked badly before the injury in Ariz.

Oh come on. Don’t be an ideologue; it’s a tired pose. Life isn’t black and white.

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 Life isn’t black and white.

Tell that to your avatar...

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

He also only had 4 tds, and had 4 turnovers. 

 

He had had a pretty good Game vs the jags but was pretty meh otherwise. He had a couple games after that were better than any pre-hit. 

 

I think theres a fundamental flaw in the sampling being small pre hit that year and him simply being a mediocre qb that occasionally would have decent days.

He also didn’t have to rack up td passes because he got them in scoring position and moreover they mostly had big leads except for the raiders game. They scored a pretty decent number of points in all but the jax game.  And he delivered late v jax and oakland. He was in partly responsible for that 4-0 run. He was quite bad afterward, and clearly played scared. But 4 games isn’t a tiny sample size. And it’s not arguable that the hit he took from Wilson was absolutely freaking brutal. Anyone who argues against that is a friggin’ moron. It definitely affected his career. He was never going to be great, but he became a lot worse afterward because of timidity.

3 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Tell that to your avatar...

Touche! My cat can only see things in black and white too of course ...

Edited March 23, 2018 by dave mcbride